*controversy *promote

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 6:27pm PDT - promote requested by MrFisk.

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

Is there some sort of proof that it was done by Mormons as a scare tactic against him? This can't be a work of some retarded kids?

Whether it was morons or assholes, they are the worst people imaginable. I'm not a pacifist or a vegetarian but in my heart I feel that someone has to be seriously messed up in the head to harm a kitten.

Also I have to agree with Cenk here and I don't often. This is similar to my theory that if you're gay move to the coasts. If your town is full of complete morons, leave. Just leave do whatever it takes because it could seriously ruin your life one day if you stay. Get the Fuck out of that town. It's basically the Ayn Rand theory, but a bit different, the more intelligent, kind, and tolerant people leave these horrible places the faster they will collapse.

>> ^Yogi:

Whether it was morons or assholes, they are the worst people imaginable. I'm not a pacifist or a vegetarian but in my heart I feel that someone has to be seriously messed up in the head to harm a kitten.
Also I have to agree with Cenk here and I don't often. This is similar to my theory that if you're gay move to the coasts. If your town is full of complete morons, leave. Just leave do whatever it takes because it could seriously ruin your life one day if you stay. Get the Fuck out of that town. It's basically the Ayn Rand theory, but a bit different, the more intelligent, kind, and tolerant people leave these horrible places the faster they will collapse.

First, I cannot see the correlation between being a pacifist or a vegetarian to animal cruelty (one could be all three). Second, I cannot see your "theory" as viable. What evidence is their that abandoning your home to the mob brings about their collapse? I would argue that throughout history people have striven and fought, from within their community, for what is right and just. These are/were brave people who we have to thank for many of our freedoms. Simply walking away from a bully is not an assurance that he will stop.

I despise religion but yeah, I'm going to need some proof. It seems to me that this is the work of one individual (and a few willing idiots). I can't condemn a whole religion for one thing like this.

That's usually how it goes. The followers of most religions are usually just the victims. It's the leaders that need to be held under a microscope.

Religion CAN be a force for positive change, it's just that it's far too easy for someone in power to steer the followers down a hurtful path.

Yeah there's a reason we usually need a witness to a crime before we can say a person or party is guilty. To lay this all on one stupid religion seems like quite a leap. Did anyone consider the cat just fell in?

Poor kitty though. That's so depressing. Someone please post a happy video now! Please?

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=21204011&nid=148&title=flds-faithful-blamed-for-concrete-cat-torture-caught-on-camera&s_cid=featured-3

It actually was a break off sect of the Mormon faith run by Warren Jeffs. Who was the polygamist leader that was over that small city that was raided in Texas a few years ago. So this wasn't from the LDS faith, it was from the FLDS sect that believes rather strange and disgusting things that have no affiliation with the Mormon faith other than that they think that polygamy should still be practiced and in very nasty gross ways. I have many friends that are mormon and they are very torn apart by the news of this story, that is not a way to treat any of God's creatures.

So I'd say we all shouldn't be just throwing accusations out at any religion until you know all of the facts. It's something I need to work on myself actually, but yeah, this is terrible that something like this has happened. I do not want to see something like this happen again!

I think he was trying to say that if the assholes in town force all the good natured people out, it will cause the collapse of that town faster because there will be no mediating force to balance things out. It will just be horrible people doing horrible things to each other not accomplishing anything good.

That's kind of the plot of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. Instead of staying in 'civilization' having the mob of idiots tear apart their creations and perhaps themselves, the intelligent inventors, engineers, artists etc.. all leave and go to live in a hidden utopia where they are free to be excellent and create incredible things that improve the lives of everyone around them.

If I was living in a place were my neighbours were threatening or attacking me, and they were beyond reason, I would leave too. It's a really nice idea that the 'good' people stay in a community and fight to make things better, all the power to them, personally though I would have no interest in becoming a martyr. Just my 2 cents.>> ^A10anis:

>> ^Yogi:
Whether it was morons or assholes, they are the worst people imaginable. I'm not a pacifist or a vegetarian but in my heart I feel that someone has to be seriously messed up in the head to harm a kitten.
Also I have to agree with Cenk here and I don't often. This is similar to my theory that if you're gay move to the coasts. If your town is full of complete morons, leave. Just leave do whatever it takes because it could seriously ruin your life one day if you stay. Get the Fuck out of that town. It's basically the Ayn Rand theory, but a bit different, the more intelligent, kind, and tolerant people leave these horrible places the faster they will collapse.

First, I cannot see the correlation between being a pacifist or a vegetarian to animal cruelty (one could be all three). Second, I cannot see your "theory" as viable. What evidence is their that abandoning your home to the mob brings about their collapse? I would argue that throughout history people have striven and fought, from within their community, for what is right and just. These are/were brave people who we have to thank for many of our freedoms. Simply walking away from a bully is not an assurance that he will stop.

>> ^Jolth:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=21204011&nid=148&title=flds-faithful-blamed-for-concrete-cat-torture-caught-on-camera&s_cid=featured
-3
It actually was a break off sect of the Mormon faith run by Warren Jeffs. Who was the polygamist leader that was over that small city that was raided in Texas a few years ago. So this wasn't from the LDS faith, it was from the FLDS sect that believes rather strange and disgusting things that have no affiliation with the Mormon faith other than that they think that polygamy should still be practiced and in very nasty gross ways. I have many friends that are mormon and they are very torn apart by the news of this story, that is not a way to treat any of God's creatures.
So I'd say we all shouldn't be just throwing accusations out at any religion until you know all of the facts. It's something I need to work on myself actually, but yeah, this is terrible that something like this has happened. I do not want to see something like this happen again!


Totally not religious, or arguing for or against anything here but being careful and certain, but that headline reads:
FLDS faithful blamed for concrete cat torture caught on camera
However the article has NO mention of anyone associated with any group being caught on camera. It says what we already know: they assume it was this group, and someone video taped the cat, no perpetrators or evidence.

This seems entirely misleading. So no, it wasn't "actually a break off sect of the Mormom faith". That is still an assumption by the people who found the cat, who's only other evidence is that they say this group threw dead animals on the guys property over the years.

If the details about the other preceding dead animals turn out to be true, then it definitely lends more weight to the accusation of this being caused by really terrible people from this FLDS group, but it's beyond rational comprehension why people are throwing that around, when it seems to me to be just as likely that a cat fell into an open pit in the middle of the night by circumstance.

C'mon internet, use your collective reasoning!

Riddle me this.

What morally worse a cat deliberately stuck in fresh concrete or a woman having an abortion?

Both are deliberate acts. Most "open minded" folks will see the utter disgust with the cat but wont think twice on the abortion.

>> ^bobknight33:

Riddle me this.
What morally worse a cat deliberately stuck in fresh concrete or a woman having an abortion?
Both are deliberate acts. Most "open minded" folks will see the utter disgust with the cat but wont think twice on the abortion.


The woman isn't, in my view, killing a living being but removing living tissue.

Ok then why if the woman is killed and both the fetus and her are killed then the person who did this is sometimes charged with 2 murders?

Should the killer be charged with 2 murders?


>> ^Quboid:

>> ^bobknight33:
Riddle me this.
What morally worse a cat deliberately stuck in fresh concrete or a woman having an abortion?
Both are deliberate acts. Most "open minded" folks will see the utter disgust with the cat but wont think twice on the abortion.

The woman isn't, in my view, killing a living being but removing living tissue.

In that scenario the murderer is infringing on the rights of the woman by removing her life and the chance that her fetus will become a life. Those laws were probably also designed by people like you who would love to engineer this sort of logical conflict in the legal system exactly for the specific purpose of arguing "when life begins" and ultimately outlawing abortion.

In the case of a legal abortion, a woman is deciding what to do with the flesh of her own body. These are not valid comparisons.

The "when life begins" argument is important, for me the distinction is when the foetus has it's own conciousness. When is that? I've no idea.

Whoever can do this to anything that is clearly going to suffer and for the sole purpose of it suffering, they need to be put down as they are a very cruel individual.

As for the life aspect:

I think the argument for when is someone alive is very to similar for when is it time to consider pulling the plug on someone.

If someone can't survive on their own without extreme external measures, it really isn't a self sustaining life.

One day they might be able to cut off your head and keep you aware.....most people wouldn't consider that a life unless you could react or communicate. Much like a coma patient is not kept indefinitely once it becomes unlikely they will ever be able to function on their own.

A fetus up to a certain point is unable to survive outside the womb, it's more akin to a parasite at that stage....even though that sounds like a horrible comparison and isn't quite exact. But it's closer to a parasite than a carried to term baby if it can't survive outside of the mother's body. At that point it's a part of the mother's body and not it's own functional entity. Not that babies are particularly adept at feeding themselves or anything, but they won't die at any moment if left unattended for a bit.

>> ^MrFisk:

controversy promote


What exactly is controversial about this? Are there any significant numbers of people out there arguing that this was appropriate behavior?

It's a dispute.

>> ^MrFisk:

controversy promote


What exactly is controversial about this? Are there any significant numbers of people out there arguing that this was appropriate behavior?

>> ^bobknight33:

Riddle me this.
What morally worse a cat deliberately stuck in fresh concrete or a woman having an abortion?
Both are deliberate acts. Most "open minded" folks will see the utter disgust with the cat but wont think twice on the abortion.


Your logic seems flawed comparing having an abortion to putting a cat in cement.

>> ^MrFisk:

It's a dispute.

Yes but my question is, among who? Who is arguing in support of cat-cementing?

I was not presenting any logical connection between the two. I was presenting the fact that there is moral outrage for the cat incident but when a woman has an abortion the is no love lossed for the destruction of life.



>> ^Gutspiller:

>> ^bobknight33:
Riddle me this.
What morally worse a cat deliberately stuck in fresh concrete or a woman having an abortion?
Both are deliberate acts. Most "open minded" folks will see the utter disgust with the cat but wont think twice on the abortion.

Your logic seems flawed comparing having an abortion to putting a cat in cement.

>> ^bobknight33:

I was not presenting any logical connection between the two. I was presenting the fact that there is moral outrage for the cat incident but when a woman has an abortion the is no love lossed for the destruction of life.

>> ^Gutspiller:
>> ^bobknight33:
Riddle me this.
What morally worse a cat deliberately stuck in fresh concrete or a woman having an abortion?
Both are deliberate acts. Most "open minded" folks will see the utter disgust with the cat but wont think twice on the abortion.

Your logic seems flawed comparing having an abortion to putting a cat in cement.



I guess we can ask the next question in the series.

Why will someone go virtually unpunished for cementing a kitten, but face murder for cementing a baby? You're a fucked up person either way, yet it's OK to do this twisted shit to animals although it's clearly not in line with what society wants......and the laws don't reflect it.

While as with abortion, contrary to what some people want..the law supports what society generally wants and leaves it up to the individuals involved in the pregnancy to make the choice themselves instead of taking the choice away. Cementing something alive should clearly not be a choice someone can make and go unpunished or be lightly punished, yet in the case of animals..it is. And it happens in much worse ways to more animals every day, lack of food, lack of water, being chained to a tree with no shelter...lots of dogs end up dead because they twist themselves up in their chain during storms and no one comes out to free them for days and days. Dog dies, person just gets another one.

So if we can torture things like that, some fetuses being killed instantly by deliberate choice seems like a very minor thing in the overall picture. At least it's quick. Hell we don't even torture criminals on death row...they keep trying to make it quicker and less painful...despite what the criminal did of their own free will and probably deserves some suffering for.


And aside from killing, the really humorous part is the same people against abortions are also against child welfare and welfare in general and talk about population control to fix hand outs. Just don't control it in ways they disapprove of, like the pill....condoms.....or basically anything. Then don't get abortions. And then get harped at all your life because you can't follow those simple illogical steps laid out before you. It's a big case of "do as I say, not as I do", religion suffers from it and it tends to carry over...that mental disconnect that when THEY use protection/pill/whatever it's different than OTHERS doing those things...and when THEIR daughter needed an abortion because <whatever> it doesn't make their values any less stupid because OTHERS reasons just aren't as good as their reasons. But they won't openly admit that shit to other people, because.....well they know it's wrong. Forgiveness and all is the motto, yet it's rarely ever practiced...another one of those disconnects. Funny that.