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Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 3:01pm PDT - promote requested by original submitter Boise_Lib.

The leader is good, the leader is great.

so if they can prove they were kidnapped and coerced to separate...how come no criminal charges have been filed?

I went to a meeting once... did the test, some book work of something, I don't recall what really, but at the end they turned to the picture of L. Ron Hubbard, and I shit you not, they started clapping and saying "thanks to the tech maker", almost like a praise & worship session...

>> ^MrFisk:

The leader is good, the leader is great.

I'm just glad this guy is still reporting:
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web02/2009/3/9/20/news-anchor-looks-like-wanted-rapist-15953-1236643459-9.jpg

What is the difference between a "cult" and any other "faith?" There is NO difference. They all take advantage of the weak, desperate, and gullible. They all have leaders who exploit these peoples weaknesses for their own ends. They will all end up consigned to the history class when we realize that education is the key. When you are educated you begin asking questions, which is exactly what these cult leaders want to prevent. Stay stupid and a slave, or get educated and be free.

>> ^A10anis:

What is the difference between a "cult" and any other "faith?" There is NO difference. They all take advantage of the weak, desperate, and gullible. They all have leaders who exploit these peoples weaknesses for their own ends. They will all end up consigned to the history class when we realize that education is the key. When you are educated you begin asking questions, which is exactly what these cult leaders want to prevent. Stay stupid and a slave, or get educated and be free.


My definition is that with a religion, the leaders believe the stuff they're peddling, whereas with a cult, the leaders don't. So whether or not Catholicism is a religion comes down to the age old question: is the pope a catholic? I suspect so, therefore in my view, Catholicism is a religion. Do the leaders of Scientology believe in Xenu and Thetans and such like? I suspect that these bunch of bast<<Removed following legal advice>>n't.

@Quboid, I'd wager that David Koresh believed what he was teaching, so much so that he died with his flock in Waco, in the name of his beliefs, and everyone pretty much agrees that the Branch Davidians were absolutely a cult.

For that reason, I don't think the leaders vs. followers thing necessarily holds water. Better: does the religion attempt to "protect" it's members from the outside world by way of separation, either intellectual or physical? Does the religion attempt to hide it's beliefs from non-believers until they are "ready"? It's the seclusion and secrecy that makes a religion suspect.

That's a good point @KnivesOut, cult leaders can believe their own stuff. They get deemed crazy for doing it, but if your stuff is hundreds of years old, it's all fine. As regards secrecy, the Catholic church banned owning a Bible and put to death people for translating into then-modern languages.

The question of protecting their members is also dubious. Keeping girls out of school isn't for their own benefit, but I can believe that some Muslim leaders actually believe that it is. It wouldn't surprise me if David Koresh thought he was doing what's best for his followers either.

If it's not what the leaders believe, how they guard the beliefs or how they treat members, what is it? A mix? Or is there just a cut-off date? Like if your belief has been around longer than the renaissance, you can't be called crazy for believing it.

@Quboid, Yeah I don't think they are "protecting" their members in the real sense, they are protecting their members from outside ideas and corrupting influences. I also agree with you on the topic of Catholicism, for exactly those reasons. If they are hiding information about their beliefs from the rest of the world, then that qualifies as cultish behavior.

I see what you mean. That still applies to both cults and religions; to be fair, it applies to many other things as well; parenting, most obviously - in that respect a cult/religion is like a bad parent.

Is masturbation OK with Scientology? I'm having a problem finding a religion that's OK with it.

That's because 99% of religions are all about denying things that are natural.>> ^fritzo9602:

Is masturbation OK with Scientology? I'm having a problem finding a religion that's OK with it.

Ah the things people are willing to accept in order to get over their fear of death.

A good question, what the difference is. Trying to come up with any definition that distinguishes a religion from a cult is very difficult for me. Saying there's no difference because of the similarities is simplistic though.

OED's definitions of the two are basically the same except for this:
cult: 1 ...

>> ^A10anis:

What is the difference between a "cult" and any other "faith?" There is NO difference. They all take advantage of the weak, desperate, and gullible. They all have leaders who exploit these peoples weaknesses for their own ends. They will all end up consigned to the history class when we realize that education is the key. When you are educated you begin asking questions, which is exactly what these cult leaders want to prevent. Stay stupid and a slave, or get educated and be free.


Why do you think the most conservative and religiously active states, GOP and church leaders actively trying to push critical thinking out of their schools. Texas openly moving away from teaching 'higher order education and critical thinking in favor of outcome-based education that focuses on behavior modification'. As well the bible belt has by far the highest per capita rate of home schooling. Keep your kids uneducated and you keep them religiously indoctrinated and voting republican.

I've said it before I'll say it again. I blame the puritans!

>> ^messenger:

A good question, what the difference is. Trying to come up with any definition that distinguishes a religion from a cult is very difficult for me. Saying there's no difference because of the similarities is simplistic though.
OED's definitions of the two are basically the same except for this:
cult: 1 ...

>> ^messenger:

A good question, what the difference is. Trying to come up with any definition that distinguishes a religion from a cult is very difficult for me. Saying there's no difference because of the similarities is simplistic though.
OED's definitions of the two are basically the same except for this:
cult: 1 ...

>> ^PalmliX:

That's because 99% of religions are all about denying things that are natural.>> ^fritzo9602:
Is masturbation OK with Scientology? I'm having a problem finding a religion that's OK with it.


Hear that, @fritzo9602? There's still a 1% chance. Now, chin up! Keep searching (and PM me when you find one).

Hey it looks like Hinduism might be the way to go! Apparently in Hinduism seeking sensual pleasures is one of the four objectives of human life! Now we're talking!! I always knew they had to be happier wearing all that colourful clothing and everything. Leave it to wikipedia to have whole entry on masturbation and religion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_masturbation#Hinduism>> ^Fletch:
>> ^PalmliX:
That's because 99% of religions are all about denying things that are natural.>> ^fritzo9602:
Is masturbation OK with Scientology? I'm having a problem finding a religion that's OK with it.


Hear that, @fritzo9602? There's still a 1% chance. Now, chin up! Keep searching (and PM me when you find one).

>> ^PalmliX:

That's because 99% of religions are all about denying things that are natural.>> ^fritzo9602:
Is masturbation OK with Scientology? I'm having a problem finding a religion that's OK with it.



In my religion we masturbate allllllll day. Applications are open.

All faiths do not have the same agenda. That's a ridiculous statement, even if you restrict it to long-established religions. For example, Buddhism seeks to help you find the best person you can be for its own sake, not for the service of some higher power. That's not excessive, and equating it with Scientology in terms of degree of control is not accurate. As for control, yes, all systems --both religious and secular-- involve control. This includes laws, government systems, psychotherapy and parenting. You left out the word "excessive". It's important. Cults are perceived to have excessive control. What constitutes excessive is a matter of debate or personal opinion, but tarring them all with the same brush is still simplistic.>> ^A10anis:

>> ^messenger:
A good question, what the difference is. Trying to come up with any definition that distinguishes a religion from a cult is very difficult for me. Saying there's no difference because of the similarities is simplistic though.
OED's definitions of the two are basically the same except for this:
cult: 1 ...

>> ^messenger:

All faiths do not have the same agenda. That's a ridiculous statement, even if you restrict it to long-established religions. For example, Buddhism seeks to help you find the best person you can be for its own sake, not for the service of some higher power. That's not excessive, and equating it with Scientology in terms of degree of control is not accurate. As for control, yes, all systems --both religious and secular-- involve control. This includes laws, government systems, psychotherapy and parenting. You left out the word "excessive". It's important. Cults are perceived to have excessive control. What constitutes excessive is a matter of debate or personal opinion, but tarring them all with the same brush is still simplistic.>> ^A10anis:
>> ^messenger:
A good question, what the difference is. Trying to come up with any definition that distinguishes a religion from a cult is very difficult for me. Saying there's no difference because of the similarities is simplistic though.
OED's definitions of the two are basically the same except for this:
cult: 1 ...

Buddhism is a religion. A religion doesn't have to have gods. Perhaps what you mean is Buddhism isn't a religion that requires total control. Jainism is another example of a religion without gods.

I didn't make clear my point about laws, etc. and control: I'm reading into your comments that anything that is about control is always a bad thing, or is always for nefarious purposes. I got this impression because you ended your argument with the conclusion that religions are all about control, as if that was a slam-dunk making them all cults. I pointed out a series of other instances where requiring control over a person wasn't evil, and was even benevolent. This should lead to the conclusion that a religion that asserts control over someone's life may be doing so with good intent. I also did this to highlight the difference between "control" and "excessive control" which you left out. Parental control is normally a good thing. Excessive parental control is a bad thing. Where's the line between control and excessive control? Dunno.

I think you overstated your challenge to me, as there is no religion that requires the relinquishing of free will. They either require or suggest self-control in certain areas, if that's what you mean, but none require relinquishing all decision-making, not even the extreme ones like Jainism, orthodox Judaism, or fundamentalist Islam.>> ^A10anis:
Buddhism is not a religion in the context of this discussion. Neither is the law etc! That said, I will gladly concede, if you can name me a religion/cult which does not require total submission and the relinquishing of free will. I'm done...>> ^messenger:
All faiths do not have the same agenda. That's a ridiculous statement, even if you restrict it to long-established religions. For example, Buddhism seeks to help you find the best person you can be for its own sake, not for the service of some higher power. That's not excessive, and equating it with Scientology in terms of degree of control is not accurate. As for control, yes, all systems --both religious and secular-- involve control. This includes laws, government systems, psychotherapy and parenting. You left out the word "excessive". It's important. Cults are perceived to have excessive control. What constitutes excessive is a matter of debate or personal opinion, but tarring them all with the same brush is still simplistic.

>> ^messenger:

Buddhism is a religion. A religion doesn't have to have gods. Perhaps what you mean is Buddhism isn't a religion that requires total control. Jainism is another example of a religion without gods.
I didn't make clear my point about laws, etc. and control: I'm reading into your comments that anything that is about control is always a bad thing, or is always for nefarious purposes. I got this impression because you ended your argument with the conclusion that religions are all about control, as if that was a slam-dunk making them all cults. I pointed out a series of other instances where requiring control over a person wasn't evil, and was even benevolent. This should lead to the conclusion that a religion that asserts control over someone's life may be doing so with good intent. I also did this to highlight the difference between "control" and "excessive control" which you left out. Parental control is normally a good thing. Excessive parental control is a bad thing. Where's the line between control and excessive control? Dunno.
I think you overstated your challenge to me, as there is no religion that requires the relinquishing of free will. They either require or suggest self-control in certain areas, if that's what you mean, but none require relinquishing all decision-making, not even the extreme ones like Jainism, orthodox Judaism, or fundamentalist Islam.>> ^A10anis:
Buddhism is not a religion in the context of this discussion. Neither is the law etc! That said, I will gladly concede, if you can name me a religion/cult which does not require total submission and the relinquishing of free will. I'm done...>> ^messenger:
All faiths do not have the same agenda. That's a ridiculous statement, even if you restrict it to long-established religions. For example, Buddhism seeks to help you find the best person you can be for its own sake, not for the service of some higher power. That's not excessive, and equating it with Scientology in terms of degree of control is not accurate. As for control, yes, all systems --both religious and secular-- involve control. This includes laws, government systems, psychotherapy and parenting. You left out the word "excessive". It's important. Cults are perceived to have excessive control. What constitutes excessive is a matter of debate or personal opinion, but tarring them all with the same brush is still simplistic.

You are a moron, fond only of the nonsense you spout.You have nothing of intellect to convey, so be quiet and know your place...

Well played. I concede.>> ^A10anis:
You are a moron, fond only of the nonsense you spout.You have nothing of intellect to convey, so be quiet and know your place...