"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting."
- Orwell

Bush doesn't know how to use a hammer.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Very damning. And yet, I think that a good portion of US servicemen probably voted Bush into office. So ...

Ivory tower eggheads divorced from reality are even less credible than so-called chickenhawks.

If America were truly an empire, we would've kept all that territory we conquered in WW2 as our own.

But it didn't happen: instead we used our money to rebuild former enemy nations.

Try again, Chomskysift.

do you really think it was charity? An empire can be built without a war.

Sorry I'll add to that. America did put a lot of money into the ruined countries, but the end result was a benifial one. People in western Europe know what the Americans did in the war, but the arrogance that goes with it is not acceptable.

LOL @ "Chomskysift"

Dude, if your liberal media paranoia has extended to the internets, you're welcome to leave the site.

Considering your previous racist comments, I don't think you'll be missed.

"Ivory tower eggheads divorced from reality are even less credible than so-called chickenhawks."

- Ah! That's such a ridiculous statement to make. Tell that to all the families that lost sons, daughters, wives, husbands, fathers and mothers.

If America were truly an empire, we would've kept all that territory we conquered in WW2 as our own.

- This is so stupid I can't even formulate a reply.

But it didn't happen: instead we used our money to rebuild former enemy nations.

- O rly? So... who equppied both Iran and Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war? Ohhhh it's your republican idols! Wooo!

Try again, Chomskysift.

- That's just soft.

"Dude, if your liberal media paranoia has extended to the internets, you're welcome to leave the site.
Considering your previous racist comments, I don't think you'll be missed. "

theo47, I understand why you say that, and disagree with everything quantumushroom has to say. But I think he should stay-- I need to know how the other side thinks.

Besides, my theory is that quantumushroom secretly is dag or daphne pretending to be a rabid conservative.

awsome video

impeach that jackass for war crimes!

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag.(show it anyway)

Chomskysift - love it. No, I'm not QM, I don't think I could fake it that convincingly.

I do think a site is well served in having a few wingnuts (and moonbats) to make the discussions interesting.

I'm actually rather moderate, compared to a lot of lefties I've talked to on the internets.

I just have a low tolerance for stupidity, which is why I can't stand Republicans.

Most of the folks in that video have seen combat time. "Ivory tower eggheads divorced from reality" - that's Rumsfeld, the biggest chickenhawk of em all.

Anthony Zinni
The former Marine general said Secretary Rumsfeld should be held accountable for "throwing away ten years' worth of planning, plans that had taken into account what we would face in an occupation of Iraq."

Paul Eaton
The retired major general, who oversaw the training of Iraqi troops until 2004, wrote in The New York Times that "Rumsfeld has put the Pentagon at the mercy of his ego, his Cold Warrior's view of the world and his unrealistic confidence in technology to replace manpower."

Charles Swannack Jr.
The former commander of the Army's 82nd Airborne Division in Iraq told the New York Times, "I do not believe Secretary Rumsfeld is the right person to fight that war based on his absolute failures in managing the war against Saddam in Iraq."

Gregory Newbold
The former Marine general, writing in Time magazine, declared, “I now regret that I did not more openly challenge those who were determined to invade a country whose actions were peripheral to the real threat--Al Qaeda.”

John M. Riggs
In an interview with National Public Radio, retired Gen. Riggs alleged an atmosphere of ''arrogance" among top civilian leaders at the Pentagon. Rumsfeld ''should step aside and let someone step in who can be more realistic," he said.

John Batiste
The retired major general, who led a division in Iraq, told CNN, "We need leadership up there that respects the military as they expect the military to respect them. And that leadership needs to understand teamwork."

Ah how soon we forget. Well, at least some people choose to forget.

When the War on Terror started, Bush went to Congress to ask for funding. With only 1 or 2 exceptions, everyone voted in favor of it. In fact, the 'left' couldn't wait to stampede to the microphones saying how much they agreed with him.

FF to the War in Iraq to topple Saddam. Again, Bush passed resolutions at the U.N. which authorized him to proceed. If they were so dead-set that it was an 'illegal' war, they certainly didn't vote that way. Neither did left-wing politicians in Congress. They all voted to authorize it (with 1 or 2 exceptions), and indeed they wanted TWO debates over the resolution (which they got) so there would be no mistake that they voted in favor of it. One notable vote in the matter was John "F'n" Kerry, who 'voted for it - before he voted against it.'.

FF to Nov. 2005 (just last year). John Murtha, who voted for the war, ran screaming to every camera he could jump in front of that we should leave Iraq. Left-wing politicos had been saying so for months - thinking the war was 'too hard'. They used such rhetoric as "illegal war", "unjustified", "imperialistic", "unauthorized" and so on and so forth, praying to a God they didn't believe in that no one in the country would remember they voted for it in the first place.

If the Dems are so hell-fire sure that the war is wrong, illegal, unjustified and ignoble - why don't they vote to cut off funding? There's all sorts of stuff they could do to sabotage the war - it they REALLY think it's wrong. And you people? Why not write your congressman and demand that they cut off funding for the war? Or demand that we 'bring the boys home'?

Oh yes - Murtha. He was so proud of his new courageous resolve that we must leave Iraq. Finally, the Republican leadership had enough. They introduced a resolution - which would have granted the Dems everything they CLAIMED they wanted. A resolution to withdraw from Iraq. Here was their big chance for the Dems to put their votes where their big mouths were.

The vote came in November 2005. Only THREE Dems voted in favor of the "cut and run" bill. Again - if they are so sure of their position - why won't they vote to quit? Or cut off funding? Or any of the other measures which would bring their 'war is illegal' rhetoric to it's logical conclusion? For that matter - the UN. If they're so sure it's an illegal war - why don't they vote to condemn Bush as a war criminal?

Because that's all they've got - hot air. They know that they themselves voted for the war. They know at the UN they passed the resolutions to authorize it. Because the war was not, is not, and never will be illegal or unauthorized. It was sanctiond by the Dems, the UN, everyone - except the terrorists and Saddam.

Time for another Rush Limbaugh profundity. In a parody of "Do-Run-Run", they wrote a song which outlined the situation so well the Dem's linguini-spined position:

Kennedy: They had a bona-fide and our hearts stood still!
We do run run run, we do run run!
Murtha demanded that we pull out up on capital hill!
We do run run run, we do run run!
Yeah, up on capital hill! At hill, we had to vote on a bill!
That's when we ran away! We do run run run, we do run run!
Thanks a lot Murtha!

I know just what you're thinking that we don't have a spine!
We do run run run, we do run run!
I've got one around here somewhere!
Clinton: I loaned out mine!
We do run run run, we do run run!
Yeah, we got no spine! That's why we're behind!
And if you stand up to us - we do run run run, we do run run!

Kennedy:
They picked on me at 7 on the network news!
We do run run run run, we do run run!
Called us on the carpet to defend our point of view!
We do run run run, we do run run!
Yeah, we said Bush lied!
I never meant it personally, I just improvised!
I, uh, think it's time to run away again!
We do run run run, we do run run!
Over here - this way! Uh, that's not EXACTLY what I meant!
We're, uh, we're all for the troops!
We, uh, we never said withdraw RIGHT NOW!
Just a timetable! Or an estimated timetable....!

> With only 1 or 2 exceptions, everyone voted in favor of it.

Well, they were supporting their president, you remember him? the guy telling LIES to everyone in the world about the reasons Iraq needed to be invaded.

"Yeah - we said Bush lied!
I never meant it personally, I just improvised!"

The only 'evidence' of Bush 'lying' about pre-war intelligence came from Joe Wilson. Remember all that? "Plamegate"? One of the many other scandals the left cooked up which they thought would be the issue they would use to get Bush impeached, Karl Rove 'frog-marched' out of the White House, Cheney charged as a criminal, and so on and so on and so on.

And where is Joe Wilson now? Where are the criminal charges the left and the media were so SOOOOO sure would be levelled? All gone. Because it has been proven that Bush didn't lie. He was right. It was Joe Wilson who lied. It has been documented in British Intelligence that Saddam's Iraq DID try to get uranium from Niger.

The simple truth is, the Dems and the lefties were given access to the same pre-war intelligence that Bush had. And they still voted FOR the war. If it was as flimsy as all that, then why did they vote for it? Why won't they publically recant their votes? Why don't they level criminal charges against Bush or impeach him? After all, if you're right, he's a criminal and a war criminal to boot - right?

Again - if you're so sure that Bush lied, the bring forth the evidence. Bring it to your congressman. He's there to represent you - right? To represent your point of view. Bring your evidence to them, and to the media. Lay it all out on the table and then demand that they go in front of those cameras and declare it to the world. No one's going to believe you if you use comic-book characters like Michael Moore. He's too over the top and frankly he's no more trustworthy than Joe Wilson was. You need to get credible people in Congress or the House to take your conspiracy theories and start using them in their debates and campaign appearances.

Go ahead - try it. Get your elected representatives to use your theories and run with them in the upcoming elections.

But you won't do it. Because you know these theories can't be proved. You can stand there and say "Bush lied" all you want. But you know as well as anyone there are perfectly reasoned and logical counters to them. Any debater worth his salt could blow them out of the water.

Which is why, even if you DO take your arguments to your Congressman, they'll ignore it. They wouldn't dare to use that kind of clap-trap in an actual political debate.

Think about it. Have you ever heard your leftie politicians repeat any of the stuff you see on the left-wing blogs? Your bloggers are the ones who supposedly have 'all the answers' - right? So why aren't they using them to recant their votes, demand an immediate withdrawl from Iraq and impeach Bush to boot?

ahh.. I love the smell of talking points in the morning.

"impeach Bush to boot?"

Something tells me this will become a lot more possible if the democrats win in November. Without majority it's a pretty hard thing to do.

I agree, James Roe. That's looking a lot more like a possibility these days-- unless the Republicans can come up with their own October Surprise ($1 gas? Firing Rumsfeld? Finding Osama?)

this video was all over the place

BUSH didn't have to lie...all his administration had to do was alter the intelligence before it got to him.
it was called...THE OFFICE OF SPECIAL PLANS.

www.archetype-productions.com/nfo/politics/The-new-Pentagon-papers.doc

the article is by By Karen Kwiatkowski
A high-ranking military officer reveals how Defense Department extremists suppressed information and twisted the truth to drive the country to war.

with republicans controlling the administration, both houses, the supreme court you'll never hear of this, much less will there ever be any accountability as long as the republicans as in control.

I love that all republicans sound exactly the same. Regurgitating the same GOP lines all across the country.

Excuse me while I wipe a tear at the beauty of both my original statements and ripostes...


Ivory tower eggheads divorced from reality are even less credible than so-called chickenhawks."

- Ah! That's such a ridiculous statement to make. Tell that to all the families that lost sons, daughters, wives, husbands, fathers and mothers.

>>>>>> Which ones? The widows of 9-11? Or all the infidels murdered by islamist wackjobs?


If America were truly an empire, we would've kept all that territory we conquered in WW2 as our own.

- This is so stupid I can't even formulate a reply.

>>>>>> Well, no one said a liberal would have an easy time with the obvious...


But it didn't happen: instead we used our money to rebuild former enemy nations.

- O rly? So... who equppied both Iran and Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war? Ohhhh it's your republican idols! Wooo!

>>>>>> I'm going to be pissed to find out you're a 22-year-old poli-sci major, aren't I? Fortunately I have milk on hand to quell all desires.

Sorry to do two in a row....fortunately, no one reads the comments.

theo47:

"Dude, if your liberal media paranoia has extended to the internets, you're welcome to leave the site."

>>>> Yeah, and moveon.org called, their belfry is missing another moonbat. Didn't some dude in Berkeley march naked so we can ALL speak freely?

"Considering your previous racist comments, I don't think you'll be missed."

>>>> People can decide for themselves what they think of me or anyone else. I know who I am and need neither validation or approval from anyone here. I doubt anyone gives a damn. And most importantly, I'm not being paid for ranting, so anything goes, just as if I were being paid.

>>>> Your *perceived-by-me* disdain/hatred of ANYone that disagrees with liberal latte-sipping elitist hogwash certainly trumps any faults I have. Over here, anyway.

>>> Unlike too many lefty know-it-alls I don't pretend to be perfect, fair, reasonable, etc. all the time. Or even some of the time. If it's true that people hate in others what they see in themselves, could it be that maybe it's YOU who are afraid that deep down, YOU'RE a racist? How do you know I'm not black? Or Asian? Are you the scary robot that represents you? I don't even have an icon because I hate flickr.


>>>> So allow me to welcome YOU to the internets, effendi. Unlike the CNN idiot box, people to the right of Chomsky and Marx have a voice here. And I'm not going to be glib and suggest anyone leave because they don't care for _my_ toaster leavins.

>>>> I bear no ill will against anyone. I'm allowed to be angry and rant, etc. and I would grant all the same if I had any power at all.

>>>> You may hate me but you'll usually learn something.

>>>> Long P.S. I'm disappointed only that my Republitarian views would be considered 'extreme.' There was a time when fighting against dictators and other fascists was considered noble, even by the left. Now the left wants to throw the baby out with the bathwater at the first sign of conflict. WTF.

I'm pleased at the attention this vid is getting. I think it's because it rings true - most people see Bush for what he is now. Even the Christian Right is starting to.

Just look at Bush's popularity ratings. They're headed for the floor. People are sick of the lies, manipulation and incompetence. After November, Daddy will send in James Baker to clean up Junior's mess and try to salvage the Republican party.

Meanwhile Keith Olbermann's ratings are climbing.

NO war was popular while it was being fought, not even WW2. America lost 7000 troops just taking Iwo Jima.

Cut and run. Appeasement. This is what the left stands for in 2006. They're denying it even now as the liberal politicians scramble to sound more like conservatives in order to win elections.

Liberals refuse to do the one damned thing that the Constitution provides for, which is defend the country. Electing them is suicide.

quantummushroom, all you do constantly is regurgitate the same GOP arguements over and over again without analyzing your parties own actions within conflict resolution. I for one, fully support military incrusions to circumvent terrorist attacks, the strikes against Afghanistan were thus fully justified.

But why then were the following tactical errors made by the Right-wing goverment:

-Reduced Ground Force Depolyment In Afghanistan : We put less troops into Afghanistan then Iraq to find the number one enemy post 9/11, Osama Bin Laden and his cronies. There was an over reliance on the Northern Alliance, Air power and special forces. The administration had fully backed support from the international community and the american people.

-Overreliance On Technology : Afghanistan and Iraq are possible to decimate by area but impossible to conquer by technology. For all the smart guided misslies and UAVs we still face shortages in infantry armour and troop numbers as a whole.

-Disregard For Military Plans : Plans drawn up for a Post-war Iraq were discarded by the administration. No plans were drawn up resulting in chaos breaking out as the social structure of Iraq was taken apart.

Defending the country is something everyone believes in. But why support a defense that doesn't listen to it's own military? Why support Rumsfeld who was failed the people and administration as a whole countless times over?

Why do you never directly answer questions before jumping back to the same GOP trash line you hear all over right wing radio? You all sound like drones you know that?

qm has an autotype function that magically inserts the GOP talking point of the day. But Autotype has not yet blamed Clinton. Must be a bug.

So I'll try specifics with the autotype program. qm - Do you support the idea of partitioning Iraq (advanced by the Shiites in the current Iraqi government) or are you more in line with the new Baker plan for withdrawal (cutting and walking). Or do you just prefer the current Cheney program (war and chaos without end so the defense contractors get theirs)?

Personally, the idea of partition is slowly growing on me, even though the Turks will be furious at the prospect of a Kurdish state.

How is invading a state that has no conections to these attacks going to help the security of america.......warmongering that's what it is. Not enough good wars anymore, but at long as they stay in the middle east.

*dead

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