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Might just be me, but video doesen't load.

hmm should work now

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>> ^eric3579:

Might just be me, but video doesen't load.


Same here.

Call me a cranky heretic, but the superhero comic is the worst thing that ever happened to US comics... There's good stuff coming out all the time, but so much of the comic output seems to basically be softcore porn with outlandish, paper-thin action plots it's not even funny. At least in Europe, when they want to make porn, they make straight up porn - and the plot still beats the shit out of the usual Marvel fare.

>> ^Hive13:

>> ^eric3579:
Might just be me, but video doesen't load.

Same here.

It doesn't load for me when I try to watch it on my Opera and Chrome browsers, but it works just fine on my Firefox. I haven't tried it on IE, nor have I any intention to. And Safari users: You're too cool for all this Flash player shit, aren't you?

Superhero comics are pretty much where US comics started (the Golden Age). In the superhero genre I like Wonder Woman, but I'll be the first to admit that story quality has varied wildly over the years. That's what happens when you have a character who's almost 70 years old: You get good writers, and you get bad writers. Same goes for the artists. Maybe the whole superhero-type mythology ain't your bag, but that's cool. To each his own.

I don't see the softcore porn aspect that you mention, at least not in the superhero comics I've read, and I've read a lot of Wonder Woman, and a little Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern. (I stick to the DC universe. It's hard to keep up with just one universe of superheroes. Learning the Marvel characters would be too much for my poor brain.) You'll see some ample cleavage with some of the ladies (Wonder Woman and Power Girl, I'm looking at you), but never more than that, and no sexual body parts of either sex are ever grabbed or fondled. That's what I think of when you say "softcore."

I like other types of comics and graphic novels too, but I think I've established my nerd credentials by now. >> ^rebuilder:

Call me a cranky heretic, but the superhero comic is the worst thing that ever happened to US comics... There's good stuff coming out all the time, but so much of the comic output seems to basically be softcore porn with outlandish, paper-thin action plots it's not even funny. At least in Europe, when they want to make porn, they make straight up porn - and the plot still beats the shit out of the usual Marvel fare.

I was pretty much a Marvel-only type of kid; the two-dimensional DC characters could never hold my attention.

That said, early Wonder Woman stories were (in)famous for being riddled with bondage & domination themes. WW lost her powers when she was tied up, so she was constantly being chained, cuffed and restrained. It was no accident; her creator was very open about his intent and (confusingly) somehow felt that women being tied up was empowering them.

Power Girl was a parody of the over-sexualization of women in comics right from the get-go, but became very popular in spite of it.

>> ^kronosposeidon:

Superhero comics are pretty much where US comics started (the Golden Age). In the superhero genre I like Wonder Woman, but I'll be the first to admit that story quality has varied wildly over the years. That's what happens when you have a character who's almost 70 years old: You get good writers, and you get bad writers. Same goes for the artists. Maybe the whole superhero-type mythology ain't your bag, but that's cool. To each his own.
I don't see the softcore porn aspect that you mention, at least not in the superhero comics I've read, and I've read a lot of Wonder Woman, and a little Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern. (I stick to the DC universe. It's hard to keep up with just one universe of superheroes. Learning the Marvel characters would be too much for my poor brain.) You'll see some ample cleavage with some of the ladies (Wonder Woman and Power Girl, I'm looking at you), but never more than that, and no sexual body parts of either sex are ever grabbed or fondled. That's what I think of when you say "softcore."
I like other types of comics and graphic novels too, but I think I've established my nerd credentials by now.

What I mean is the female characters are ludicrously over-sexed and often portrayed in poses and clothing whose sole purpose is to maximize the amount of tits and ass shown. It just seems like a cheap way to market to a target audience of young boys. Of course there's also a stereotypical male figure, which has been getting more and more outlandish as well. My main issue with that is that it seems there's a certain standard way to draw comics in the US, designed more for saleability and a kind of industrial production method than for artistic purposes.

Most of the time you can tell the crap from the interesting stuff just by looking at the drawing style, but sometimes you find a very good story illustrated by a technically accomplished artist who has, to my eye, been corrupted by lifelong exposure to what they probably think is "the way" to draw comics. That I find sad.

I just find it hard to take any character seriously when their body language come straight out of a Playboy shoot.

>> ^kronosposeidon:

I don't see the softcore porn aspect that you mention, at least not in the superhero comics I've read, and I've read a lot of Wonder Woman, and a little Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern. (I stick to the DC universe. It's hard to keep up with just one universe of superheroes. Learning the Marvel characters would be too much for my poor brain.) You'll see some ample cleavage with some of the ladies (Wonder Woman and Power Girl, I'm looking at you), but never more than that, and no sexual body parts of either sex are ever grabbed or fondled. That's what I think of when you say "softcore."

I'll grant you that early Wonder Woman comics often played up bondage themes, but I haven't seen that exploitation post-Crisis.

I can't speak for all DC superheroes, but I think several good writers have really given Wonder Woman a well-rounded personality. Conversely, some have made her flat as paper. Still, I admire the character. If she had consistently good writing and a few top-notch villains (Cheetah's good, but the others are somewhat lacking) she'd be a top seller every month.

For a while Joss Whedon was attached to a Wonder Woman live-action film, but he's not now. If they could get him back I'm sure it would be a great film, and Wonder Woman's popularity would skyrocket like Batman's did after the Nolan films. Unfortunately the WW film is still in development hell, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.>> ^xxovercastxx:

I was pretty much a Marvel-only type of kid; the two-dimensional DC characters could never hold my attention.
That said, early Wonder Woman stories were (in)famous for being riddled with bondage & domination themes. WW lost her powers when she was tied up, so she was constantly being chained, cuffed and restrained. It was no accident; her creator was very open about his intent and (confusingly) somehow felt that women being tied up was empowering them.
Power Girl was a parody of the over-sexualization of women in comics right from the get-go, but became very popular in spite of it.
>> ^kronosposeidon:
Superhero comics are pretty much where US comics started (the Golden Age). In the superhero genre I like Wonder Woman, but I'll be the first to admit that story quality has varied wildly over the years. That's what happens when you have a character who's almost 70 years old: You get good writers, and you get bad writers. Same goes for the artists. Maybe the whole superhero-type mythology ain't your bag, but that's cool. To each his own.
I don't see the softcore porn aspect that you mention, at least not in the superhero comics I've read, and I've read a lot of Wonder Woman, and a little Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern. (I stick to the DC universe. It's hard to keep up with just one universe of superheroes. Learning the Marvel characters would be too much for my poor brain.) You'll see some ample cleavage with some of the ladies (Wonder Woman and Power Girl, I'm looking at you), but never more than that, and no sexual body parts of either sex are ever grabbed or fondled. That's what I think of when you say "softcore."
I like other types of comics and graphic novels too, but I think I've established my nerd credentials by now.

You make good points. However if you made heroes (female and male) plain looking they would no longer seem special. Superheroes are basically modern gods and goddesses. And just like the Greeks and Romans, we make our gods hypermasculine (heavily muscled) and our goddesses hyperfeminine (beautiful, with hourglass figures).

However, American superheroes aren't the only ones portrayed this way. Britain's Judge Dredd is pretty big. So is MarvelMan, aka MiracleMan. Doctor Manhattan is also pretty big. (Insert big blue penis joke here.) And let's not forget Japan's Goku and Gohan, among others.

I'll concede that American superheroes are probably the most pronounced in this regard, and sometimes it's downright awful. But if the artist is good then extremes are generally avoided, and combined with good writing you get a comic book that stands shoulder to shoulder with others in the medium, at least in my opinion.



>> ^rebuilder:

What I mean is the female characters are ludicrously over-sexed and often portrayed in poses and clothing whose sole purpose is to maximize the amount of tits and ass shown. It just seems like a cheap way to market to a target audience of young boys. Of course there's also a stereotypical male figure, which has been getting more and more outlandish as well. My main issue with that is that it seems there's a certain standard way to draw comics in the US, designed more for saleability and a kind of industrial production method than for artistic purposes.
Most of the time you can tell the crap from the interesting stuff just by looking at the drawing style, but sometimes you find a very good story illustrated by a technically accomplished artist who has, to my eye, been corrupted by lifelong exposure to what they probably think is "the way" to draw comics. That I find sad.
I just find it hard to take any character seriously when their body language come straight out of a Playboy shoot.
>> ^kronosposeidon:
I don't see the softcore porn aspect that you mention, at least not in the superhero comics I've read, and I've read a lot of Wonder Woman, and a little Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern. (I stick to the DC universe. It's hard to keep up with just one universe of superheroes. Learning the Marvel characters would be too much for my poor brain.) You'll see some ample cleavage with some of the ladies (Wonder Woman and Power Girl, I'm looking at you), but never more than that, and no sexual body parts of either sex are ever grabbed or fondled. That's what I think of when you say "softcore."

@kronosposeidon @rebuilder

I've heard from a number of DC fans that would-be good heroes have few or no interesting villains, so I guess I'm not surprised to hear it about WW too. The Flash is one that sticks out, in particular. I don't actually know who any of his villains are, and maybe that's exactly the point.

I'm sure a Joss Whedon movie would be huge, though I personally feel like Joss Whedon destroys everything he touches. I don't care how many awards Astonishing X-Men wins, it was and is a huge stain on the X-Men. Only after several years have they been able to fix or explain some of the character destruction he wrote.

As for the over-sexualization of female characters, I generally feel this isn't the case. Are the women sexy? Absolutely. Aren't the men also? These are all people who are in unrealistically good physical shape and spend nearly all their time in skin-tight clothes. Whether or not they are over-sexualized is a matter of opinion, but I have a hard time believing the women are more sexualized than the men. Is this Batgirl cover really any sexier than this cover for The Web?

Of course I'm generalising; there are certain artists that absolutely tend to go over the top; but I don't feel that comics in general are overdone. I also don't think that a bit of sex-appeal is harmful (either in the "think of the children!" sense or harmful to the characters and story).

Nope, just doesn't load for me either - just spins and spins....

11 more comments have been lost in the ether at this killed duplicate.

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