I don't like non-factual advertising in general. The ad is stupid. What this ad taught me is that 2DTV sucks 4 lyfe. Whatever it is.

Am I right in thinking that this would be okay in the US because it is the image of a public official?

So distance is a function of radius?

the one in black is cuter

> Might makes right. God is on our side. They're all out to kill us.

Just for the record, I said none of this.

This video is focused on Iraq and Saddam, but what it really shows is that this intervention in the middle east is all about Iran and ultimately oil. The hard truth is that oil is a limited natural resource, and the last ideology / people / nations in control of oil are going to rule the planet. Do you really want to be ruled by a Saddam or a bin Laden or an Ahmadinejad? This is the real question, and I am afraid that the opposite of your answer to that is your answer to "should we be bucking for position in the middle east".

So, one has to look at where we are today when it comes to Iran. When I was growing up, a nuclear-armed Russia was at a standoff with us for many years, never having a real desire to attack us. What would it be like to be up against a nuclear armed Iran? Or "terrorists" that have been armed by Iran? Do you want to find out? I sure as hell don't.

I've enjoyed the comments. They are better than the video itself. :>

Its been great hearing what everyone has to say, without so much of the pointless hostility you'd see somewhere else. Cheers all around.

@doremifa
>How about breaking the bible down in a language we all can understand? Just a thought.

NET (New English Translation) is online at http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Gen&chapter=1 . I really like this one because they're very open about reasons for translating the way they did. They point out where different scrolls disagree on the copying of a word, for example. They also point out where different schools of thought disagree on what a given passage means. The footnotes are very good. If you have questions about a passage or something you can 'profile reply' me.

@mrcrosby4
>If you believe in the God of Israel and his son Jesus, you can't also believe in "billions and billions of years" of macro evolution and claim that the Bible is true. If you believe in macro evolution, then God lied to us.

Genesis 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created – when the Lord God made the earth and heavens. 2:5 Now no shrub of the field had yet grown on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 2:6 Springs would well up from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. 2:7 The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. [...] 2:18 The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a companion for him who corresponds to him." The Lord God formed out of the ground every living animal of the field and every bird of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them, and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 2:20 So the man named all the animals, the birds of the air, and the living creatures of the field, but for Adam no companion who corresponded to him was found. 2:21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was asleep, he took part of the man’s side and closed up the place with flesh. 2:22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 2:23 Then the man said, "This one at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; this one will be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man."

I have to wonder when science suggests that life came out of hot springs of mud. Because isn't that what the Bible just said? The Bible does not say how the formation of life was accomplished. How long did it take? Billions and billions of years? A day? A minute? No time at all? What are your thoughts on these verses? (That's not meant to be taken as a challenge. I don't think it has anything to say about 'macro evolution' as you call it. I'm more wondering what you think about the absence of a time frame.)

@ no one in particular
I think it doesn't say exactly how long it took, or how it was done in detail, because it doesn't matter. I guarantee that God and Jesus are much, much more concerned about how we're treating those around us rather than what we think about how the world and everything in it was built. I doubt that God will keep us from coming home to Him because we dared to use the intellect He gave us, and speculated about how He accomplished all His great works. In fact, He probably enjoys the fact that we appreciate and care enough to wonder about it. Ultimately, He wants credit where credit is due.

@Fletch

>There are no corners to get backed into in your world. [...]I just see where this would go.

Me too. Atheism and Christianity are mutually exclusive of one another. You can't be both. An atheist could as easily say, "There is no god" over and over as much as I could say, "Yes, there is. Yes, there is." All I can tell you is that I've met Him and we're in love. You have my permission to laugh. I will laugh at me with you.

>explain the true meaning of metaphors like those I've pasted below?

Well, they are definitely not metaphors. The books that you've cited from are records of laws of the Israelites of the time. On a personal level I have to ask myself : Do I believe these laws should be followed because they are from books that were compiled to form the compendium we call the Bible? No. Definitely not. And I would hope that we'd be hard pressed to find a Christian who believes that they should. In fact, if we found one, that person would not be a Christian at all. Jesus clearly and directly spoke out against laws like these. I dunno exactly why, but I think those books are included because it is part of the history that lead up to Christianity. In part, they give a basis for understanding why Jesus was so hated.

Here are some of the things Jesus said when he spoke out against stuff like this:

• Blessed are the merciful. They will be shown mercy.

• Blessed are the peacemakers. They will be called the children of God.

• You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." (Exodus 21:24, Leviticus 24:20) But I say to you, do not resist the doer of evil. But whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well. [Speaking out against the laws in the same books as the one you cited, he's saying that to break the cycle of violence you should be the one to deny retaliation.]

• You have heard it said "love your neighbor." (Leviticus 19:18) But I say to you: love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.To the person who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other as well. [Again, speaking out against the old laws by first citing from them.]

• Whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, because they love to pray while standing in synagogues and on street corners so that people can see them. [I'll bet that one pissed a bunch of people off because he called them on their b.s.]

• On another Sabbath, Jesus entered the synagogue and was teaching. Now a man was there whose right hand was withered. The experts in the law and the Pharisees watched Jesus closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath, so that they could find a reason to accuse him. But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man who had the withered hand, “Get up and stand here.” So he rose and stood there. Then Jesus said to them, “I ask you, is it lawful to do good on the Sabbath or to do evil; to save a life or to destroy it?” After looking around at them all, he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” The man did so, and his hand was restored. But they [the Pharisees] were filled with mindless rage and began debating with one another what they would do to Jesus. [This illustrates how blinded to love their laws had made them, and how Jesus went directly against those ways in public, and indeed, right in front of them. He was no coward, for sure.]

• So anyone who breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. [He's saying, "Look, if love isn't the motivating factor in what choices you make, and what you do in life, you don't belong to me."]

In Luke 11:37-54 he really lays into them, right to their face.

Another brick in the Devil's wall.

Leia in white with a laser rifle and braids. Yum.

The part where Vader says "youre fired" is the best ever.

Just for the record, God has been part of this country since Day 1.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

@cheesemoo

>When I look at how many horrible things have been done in the past in the name of religion, I cannot help but question religion in general.

All people suck to some degree or another. This is one of the truths contained in the Bible. How anyone can kill or hurt or persecute "in the name of God" is beyond me. I have to wonder what crack they are smoking.

I think that if you wanted to destroy something, like the relationship between God and believers, you wouldn't make a frontal assault. You would pull a Trojan horse. You would infiltrate and destroy it from the inside out. I believe the Devil is doing it this way.

>What sort of deity allows these things to be committed in the name of its religion? Do I want to be even remotely associated with such a diety?

Earlier I mentioned that in order to have a true relationship, you have to allow yourself to be hurt. I think that religion is people-created, and people are fallible. I'm 100% positive that God is hurt when people He is trying to love are killed by people He is trying to love.

>If the translation into English is the problem, why not just guide translators to give the meaning you originally intended?

The meaning is there. You have to seek it out. What would be the point of making a rule book? God doesn't want you to follow rules; God wants you to live in a such a way that the rules aren't necessary.


@Farhad2000

You hit the nail on the head. People try to use religion as a way to "puff themselves up" (see the verse at the end). I'm don't like it when I see Christians touting themselves above other people. I mean, what part of "humble yourself" didn't they get. It's right there in the Bible.

What this says to me is this: if I want to know God/Jesus, I can't do it by following the example of other people who are trying to do the same, because inevitably they are fking up. I have to follow the example of Jesus. The only way I can do that is to see what he did, and what he has to say, in the Bible.


@whomever

I see some "I don't believe it because of x y and z." But look at the material. How could you not agree with this:

""
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I give over my body in order to boast, but do not have love, I receive no benefit.

Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered or resentful. It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth.
""

Surely you cannot say that those statements aren't true. And surely you cannot say that Christians who go around being asses are anywhere near listening to what verses like this have to say. The truth of the matter is, that all Christians fail at being Christ-like. Myself, included. If you want to know God, then you have to forgive, and look past that to Jesus.

@ Fletch

>If it really is the word of god, then it MUST be factual if you believe god to be infallible.

I think we're teetering on the semantics of "factual", maybe because I chose the wrong word. Here's an example of what I mean:

"[Jesus,] why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?" Jesus answered them, "Those who are well don’t need a physician, but those who are sick do."

Jesus was not saying that he ate with tax collectors and sinners because they needed antibiotics. That they are "sick" is not FACT, it is a metaphor. So when I say the Bible is not fact-based, I mean that it is largely driven by metaphors. There is however a FACT there in the quote. The FACT is carried by the metaphor. God doesn't have to have a literally-stated Bible in order to be infallible. The abscence of being literal does not make something fallible, although it would in science. I think this is where many of us run into a roadblock. Love is beyond science, and it bothers us because we have this in-built desire to "know for sure."

>If you don't believe it to be completely factual, then how can you believe it is the word of god?

I'm sorry, I've struggled with my wording, so I'll make it clear: I believe it to be full of facts and truths, carried in the meaning of metaphors.

>If you believe some parts are literal and are open for interpretation, then who decides which is which? You? Your pastor?

Most times it is obvious when you read. "Jesus went over to the well to talk to the woman" versus "Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own?" Fact vs metaphor. I think your question of who decides is a really, really good one. This is why Christians get together to discuss the Bible. It can be difficult to read and understand. Quite often I have gone back to something I thought I understood, and I have seen that there was another level to a particular verse it that I wasn't old enough, or experienced, enough to appreciate. All a pastor can say is, "I spent alot of time thinking about this, and here's what I think." Since humans are fallible, you get pastors who are wrong. Jesus acknowledges the difficulty when he says, "Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. But the gate is narrow and the way is difficult that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

>"God is outside of time"? Who says?

He does. The Bible does.

>Strengthens evolution if you ask me.

There is no doubt in my mind that it strengthens 'evolution'. I really don't think God is so simple that He would do anything other than allow for life to change and evolve. I mean if He got such a big kick out of creating stuff, why would He just want His creations to sit around and be boring. I think if I were the ultimate creator, I would make stuff that went off on its own and constantly re-made itself, because that would be, and is, a beautiful thing to behold.

>I just refuse to fill in the blanks with "god did it".

No doubt, it can be a cop out. "Why did the book hit the ground when it fell off the table? God did it!" ...doesn't work for me either. But, why does gravity necessarily exist? Couldn't we have a universe without it? Sure we could. Where did it come from? God did it! ...that one I am okay with.

>Throw away the Kent Hovind DVDs and think for yourself man!

I have no idea who that is. Maybe there's hope for me.