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newtboy (Member Profile)

ahimsa says...

"You know how much you love, respect and want to protect every dog and cat in the world? You know how much your heart breaks when you see a picture of a dog in a shelter who is going to be killed? You know how you feel when you see photos of piles of dead dogs and cats who are going to be used for fur? You know how enraged you get when you see a photo of a dog or cat who has been beaten to death? That’s how vegans feel about all animals. Every animal who is exploited and murdered for food, clothing, entertainment and “research.” We don’t distinguish between dogs and cats and other animals. If you allowed yourself to feel the deep suffering that billions of animals endure for your pleasure, you’d be vegan, too. And you might understand why vegans work so hard to end the animal holocaust." —Gary Smith

newtboy said:

No thanks. Not interested in silly Veganist propaganda.

Besides, I can see from the title that it makes the mistaken assumption that people's pets shouldn't be eaten. Maybe I wouldn't eat my dog, but if someone else wants it's carcass, they're welcome to it. Eating it is FAR better than letting it rot, or burning it.

newtboy (Member Profile)

ahimsa says...

you can check out one source of research here: jonathanbalcombe.com/

as far as being educated on veganism, you are sadly mistaken. you are simply repeating the myths you have been taught since childhood. if you would not wish to experience somethign yourself, it can never be considered humane. freefromharm.org/animal-products-and-ethics/factory-farming-alternative-farming/

btw, if you were educated, you would know that the brain runs on carbs and not on fats & protein. for peer reviewed research on diet and health, i would recommend http://nutritionfacts.org/

newtboy said:

Really, what actual peer reviewed studies of brain activity during death are you quoting whey you say that? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out that you're totally buying into the myths and lies of the vegan movement rather than any actual evidence.
I hate to tell you, but I'm probably more educated about veganism than you, as I've been exposed to it for about 40 years through my aunts family, and can see it from the outside, so being part of the 'movement' doesn't cloud my perception like it does to vegans. Also, my brain doesn't suffer from a lack of proteins and fats.

Also, to comment on your other post, not all animals are factory farmed, or executed by the methods you decry. It's incredibly annoying to try to discuss this issue with people who want to portray the entire meat industry as the worst examples possible, then tell people how to act based on that misrepresentation. There's a problem with factory farming, not all animal farming is factory farming, or factory harvesting. Please make a note of it.

newtboy (Member Profile)

ahimsa says...

carnivores, unlike humans (who eat flesh, dairy and eggs for reasons of pleasure) require flesh to live. if you check out the article i posted along wit h this one, they will greatly increase your awareness about these issues:

freefromharm.org/common-justifications-for-eating-animals/animals-eat-animals/

newtboy said:

Why is it that Vegans never attack carnivores the way they attack omnivores? Carnivores eat only other animals, usually eating them ALIVE, shouldn't they be your target?

newtboy (Member Profile)

ahimsa says...

freefromharm.org/animal-products-and-psychology/i-love-my-pets-but-still-eat-meat-whats-wrong-with-that/

newtboy said:

So you HATE President Carter then, eh? If all animals are equally important, sentient, intelligent, and emotional, it must simply kill you that he's trying to eradicate an entire species, right?

Social Justice Warriors are invariably self centered ignorant asshats. Don't be one.

Please take a biology class, then try again.
Vegans get ridiculed because they make ridiculous statements like "the only difference between the dogs you love and the cows, chickens and pigs you eat is your perception".
...or are YOU only as intelligent as a gnat? Because if all animals are the same, that's what you're saying. ;-)

The thing about "truth" is, it has to be true. Your statement is simply insane. Animals are different from other different animals.

ahimsa (Member Profile)

ahimsa says...

freefromharm.org/common-justifications-for-eating-animals/animals-eat-animals/

ahimsa said:

carnivores, unlike humans (who eat flesh, dairy and eggs for reasons of pleasure) require flesh to live. if you check out the article i posted along wit h this one, they will greatly increase your awareness about these issues:

[url redacted]

newtboy (Member Profile)

ahimsa says...

carnivores, unlike humans (who eat flesh, dairy and eggs for reasons of pleasure) require flesh to live. if you check out the article i posted along wit h this one, they will greatly increase your awareness about these issues:

[url redacted]

newtboy said:

Why is it that Vegans never attack carnivores the way they attack omnivores? Carnivores eat only other animals, usually eating them ALIVE, shouldn't they be your target?

newtboy (Member Profile)

ahimsa says...

of course in some ways they are different but when it comes to suffering and death, a cow is a pig is a chicken is a dog.

if you wish to become educated on this subject rather than buying into the myths and lies of our culture and society, i suggest you read this short essay:
http://freefromharm.org/animal-products-and-ethics/killing-animals-imaginary-solutions/

newtboy said:

So you HATE President Carter then, eh? If all animals are equally important, sentient, intelligent, and emotional, it must simply kill you that he's trying to eradicate an entire species, right?

Please take a biology class, then try again.
Vegans get ridiculed because they make ridiculous statements like "the only difference between the dogs you love and the cows, chickens and pigs you eat is your perception".

The thing about "truth" is, it has to be true. Your statement is simply insane. Animals are different from other different animals.

newtboy (Member Profile)

ahimsa says...

veganism is about social justice and non-violence. the only difference between the dogs you love and the cows, chickens and pigs you eat is your perception. vegans get ridiculed due to people's lack of awareness and false perceptions- just as anti-slavery activists were ridiculed in the antebellum south for suggesting the moral equivalence between white people and black people. i believe Arthur Schopenhauer said it best:
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

newtboy said:

This is why vegans get ridiculed.

EDIT: I'll assume you hate President Carter with a passion, as he's trying to make the Guinea worm go extinct. ;-)

Excavator operator saves young deer stuck in mud

ahimsa says...

“The only difference between a dog, cat, horse and dolphin and a cow, chicken, pig and turkey is perception. One is no more valuable than another. And yet in this culture, we hold the former animals in high esteem and the latter we brutalize for food. All animals are deserving of respect and freedom from violence. The way to respect others is veganism.

Richard Muller: I Was wrong on Climate Change

ahimsa says...

your stance about veganism is very similar to the climate deniers in that you choose to buy into myths and lies as opposed to looking into the facts youself. the documentary i posted considers the issues of local, and so called "small" farms also. they are no more humane or less cruel than so called "factory farming" and are every but as inefficient and environmentally devastating. "factory farming" is a mere symptom and the root cause is the commodification of sentient non-human animals, just as in the past humans used to commodify other human beings of certain races. for example here is an article on the myth of "humane" animal farming: http://freefromharm.org/animal-products-and-ethics/factory-farming-alternative-farming/

the fact that climate change is driven in large part but the raising of non-human animals for food is without question a well documented fact. the human population is without a doubt a major factor but above this issue is the fact that it requires MANY times the resources to produce on calorie of flesh, dairy or eggs than it does to produce one calorie of plant based food. are you aware that in the USA, around 80% of crops grown are fed to the 10 billion farmed animals who are murdered every year for food? it has been estimated that 800 million humans could be fed on the crops which are grown for farmed animals alone. these issues are also gone into detail in the documentary.

as far as "tugging on your heart strings" goes, how is having compassion and empathy for anyone who suffers a bad thing? no one would be questioning it if the victims were human children but since they are "only" cows, pigs chickens and fishes (all of whom feel pain just like you or i do, perhaps even more so), suddenly violence against them is considered a matter of personal choice. the bottom line is that if you would not wish to expeience something yourself, it is never moral or ethical to force others to experience it, especially not in the name of a momentary taste sensation.

finally, here is a quote which i think best summarizes the situation:
“Aren’t humans amazing? They kill wildlife – birds, deer, all kinds of cats, coyotes, beavers, groundhogs, mice and foxes by the million in order to protect their domestic animals and their feed. Then they kill domestic animals by the billion and eat them. This in turn kills people by the million, because eating all those animals leads to degenerative – and fatal – health conditions like heart disease, stroke, kidney disease, and cancer. So then humans spend billions of dollars torturing and killing millions more animals to look for cures for these diseases. Elsewhere, millions of other human beings are being killed by hunger and malnutrition because food they could eat is being used to fatten domestic animals. Meanwhile, few people recognize the absurdity of humans, who kill so easily and violently, and once a year send out cards praying for “Peace on Earth.”~ David Coates



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