Thanks!

I see you like Frank Turner, because you clearly have good taste in music. He's really blowing up lately, it's awesome. I got into him a few years ago because of one of my college buddies who showed me a few of his songs from Love Ire & Song and Poetry of the Deed, and the dude's easily one of my favorite artists these days.

Anyway, with all the festivals he's going to be playing this year, I figured toss some more of him up on the Sift so a few more people can hopefully find and enjoy him, y'know?

http://videosift.com/video/Frank-Turner-Recovery

I'll toss my next power point at trying to get one of those other vids up over 10 votes, they're all so close.

Once again, your main argument seems to be "shit works okay, why should we bother trying to do better?" I cannot accept such a lazy attitude towards suffering that you and I help perpetrate. Yes, there is a lot less suffering, but when that is tied more to technology and healthcare and less to the actual way of life that we lead (amusing how somehow our fancy modern lives are incredibly stressful for anybody in the lower and lower-middle class; and even MORE stressful for those in the countries from whom we source our cheap goods and services), and not to actively reducing abuse against our fellow men, we're being complicit in the abuses.

You have to do more than just hope it'll fix itself. That has never done anything for us.

Although, on the other hand, with humans being how they are, YOU don't have to do anything. When you have seen enough information/had enough experiences to realize the injustice of our system for yourself, you won't really have a choice in the matter, because you will want of your own accord to see a better world. Just maybe try to take a closer look at things, you know?

Also, thanks for having a civil conversation about it despite our disagreements (and I apologize if I've been a bit over-the-top with my dickishness anywhere along the way so far). I think that so long as everyone in a discussion is willing to really listen to the points another is trying to make, we can all learn something (though I'm sure you and I have both heard variations of each others' arguments before, we've not seen it played out in quite this way, surely).

I'll try to actually stick around on the regular this time, looking for more substantive discussion again these days since post-college it can be hard to find sometimes, lol.

Great video, thanks for posting it.

By assuming we are "close minded conspiracy theorists" simply off the basis of having a different conclusion than you, you're simply avoiding the discussion, and you still fail to make any legitimate arguments; you merely repeat the "tired and naive" talking point of how "it's not the best, but it's the best we have" to defend an unjust system.

When has that attitude ever done us good? We have such amazing technology and understanding of the universe because of the way we as a whole ultimately reject that argument and instead say "some of this works quite well, but we need a lot of work in other areas."

Personally, I'm a fan of the free market concept. I think a fair amount of those who you are so eager to write off as fools also do. The problem comes down to what our concepts of justice are. We speak fondly of "equality of opportunity," but anyone can see we have no such thing. Only when everyone has equal opportunity to pursue learning in the fields of their choice without having to give up on adding to our collective culture/knowledge because of the economic pressure of survival can we truly say people are free. So long as anyone is taking a job they hate just to scrape by at the bottom of the chain, and we exercise violence against each other to try and force our ways onto others on a massive scale, we are, in my opinion, a profoundly unjust society.

Of course, violence will never end, scheming and exploitation and all our evils will continue to plague us. We can't make a utopia. What we can do, though, is decrease the potential for abuse in our current systems. I, and many others, think that separating the means of survival and self-actualization - the things required to develop, grow, and contribute to humanity at a high level (namely, food/water/shelter, basic healthcare, and free, equal access to education) - from the rest of the market is one way to make a huge impact on that potential for abuse. Think about it: how many times do we let corporations damage our environment and abuse us simply because speaking out means losing your means of survival?

I think the rest of the market is going to have to stay the market, nobody can really say how it's fair to divide up all our resources (though I hope for an increase in democracy going forwards for things related to our environment and health). Amusingly, though you rail against anarchy, the actual ideals of anarchy fall in line with the concept of a free market (anarchy is really all about freedom of association rather than coercive structures; not a lack of order).

Amusing, as many people who have spent any real time examining economic issues and social justice would call your dismissive attitude the naive one. Try actually arguing on a point by point basis against the economic exploitation that lies at the basis of current capitalist systems where jobs = survival and the whole system's been carved up into little feudal kingdoms instead of just accepting claims on their face simply because you've been told your whole life how wonderful our way of living is for all of us.

If you approach the task with any sincerity, you'll first realize that there's a metric fuck ton of awful things that we have done in the name of economic domination to preserve our power over others (as a nation, as a collection of businesses, as a herd of lazy people buying products made by child labor simply because it's convenient), and you'll likely then also realize that your history book was just as rose-tinted as the Japanese governments' when they refuse to talk about Japan's war crimes.

Edumacate yourself and then see if you can still just throw out trite dismissals like that.

*quality

First off, I want to say @artician, thanks for such an insightful comment, and enoch as well. I've not been participating in this community much for the past few years because of being busy with figuring myself out and trying to figure out how I feel about the mess we're in. Interesting conversations like this were what drew me to the sift initially.

Ultimately, I've come to a similar conclusion as you. While, as JustSaying noted, we do tend to be tribal creatures, the nature of the interaction between ingroups and outgroups is a learned one (for the most part) just like violence as an acceptable outlet is a learned habit (for the most part; children who are abused and grow up surrounded by violence are more likely to perpetuate abuse, etc). Because people naturally learn to be more tolerant and empathetic as they grow to understand each other and see how much their similarities outweigh their differences, this tribal nature shifts in more interconnected societies to things like political parties, sports fanships, cliques, etc. as the increased understanding/empathy between us decrease the potential for dehumanization of the "other" and violence.

We are living in more peaceful times than ever before in most ways. We are learning to be more accepting of religion, sexuality, and other differences more than ever before in terms of the global average. We have a system that promotes dehumanization and exploitation, selfishness and secrecy rather than compassion and empathy, sharing and oppenness, but such a system need not always be. There are no easy answers, and none of us can do anything alone to change things, but the majority of us are tired of the wars and killing, throwing away the lives of our youth instead of seeing what new art and science and wonder they could bring to our world. Those who lust after power enough to exercise it over their fellow men the way it has been are the few and very sick who need some help and removal from temptation, like a "recovering" alcoholic at a Christmas party.

*quality

Just because Christian institutions don't do half as much good in the world as they ought doesn't mean Jesus wasn't a valid inspirational character, especially if you only look at his philosophies.

Note to self: even with a full band, layer vocals in a choral style for extra fucking epicness.

*quality

MY BEATS! MY BEATS!

Screams of fake.

*discard

can't get the damn embed to work right.