SDGundamX said:

Since you brought up unusual punishments, let's take stoning people for adultery (which exists in both the Koran and the Bible). When was the last time someone was stoned to death by a group in the U.S., U.K., Australia, or even Malaysia for adultery? Hundreds of millions of Muslims and Christians around the world seem perfectly fine ignoring that part of their holy texts. Just because something that we find distasteful today is written in the holy text doesn't automatically make the religion evil nor does it suddenly force the practioners to behave like savages.

You need to look at the specifics. Take a look at the countries where stoning actually does still occasionally happen and who actually carries it out: Iran, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan. Invariably when it does occur it happens in rural areas where there are people who still actually live like it is the middle ages, with extreme poverty and little education to speak of (other than religious). Sure, the book gave them the idea but it wasn't the only factor in play and to ignore these other factors or the fact that honor killings are in fact common across a wide number of cultures with varying religious backgrounds (even the Romans did it) is what would be truly intellectually dishonest.

As for extremists--they exist in all religions including Christianity. It wasn't a mob of Muslims who attacked Charlie Hedbo--it was two deranged individuals. And while some Muslims might have applauded the attack others denounced it, such as the hunderds of thousands of Chechen protestors who who were upset with the cartoons but didn't think violence was the right response (see article here).

Again, it's a complex issue that can't be boiled down to "Islam = Good/Bad." Islam as practiced by ISIS or Boko Haram? Yeah, there's some dark shit going on there. Islam as practiced by average citizens in Kuala Lumpur or Boston? Not so much.

But again, moderate statements based on reason and facts are not what sell books, generate online clicks, or fill lecture halls to capacity.

SDGundamX said:

Attacking the religious text is a strawman in my opinion.

There's all sorts of outrageous (by modern standards) stuff in the Bible, Koran, Talmud, and other major religious texts. How could there not be? They were written hundreds to thousands of years ago at a time when reading and writing was limited to the wealthy or elite (i.e. priest classes). Much of that stuff is outright ignored or at the very least acknowledged by deemed less important by practitioners of those religions in modern societies.

All literature is open to interpretation and this includes religious texts. The fact that there are tens of thousands of denominations of Christianity with differing opinions about what it means to be Christian and how to behave as one gives testament to this. While there aren't as many named denominations in Islam, if you actually look at how it is practiced locally in say urban Malaysia (i.e. no Bhurka for women) compared with rural Afghanistan (i.e. full body covering required) you can see there's huge diversity there as well.

So if you want to judge the religion, then you actually have to take the time to make an informed opinion by looking at who does what and why they do it. And when you do that, you tend to find that there's this complex inter-relationship between religious teachings, economics, politics, ethnicity, history and so on which make it difficult to assign full blame to any one "thing" such as religion. The female genital mutilation example I used above makes this pretty clear.

Sticking solely with criticising the religious text puts a critic on very unsure footing, as at the end of the day all the critic is really doing is criticizing a specific interpretation of the text (i.e. their own understanding). That's why, as I said, it's something of a strawman argument since you're really arguing against an interpretation you yourself have created.

It is much better, in my opinion, to look at how specific groups are interpreting and enacting the text, and then criticizing their actions (or the effects of their actions) in the event that there is a negative effect. But in doing so I think it quickly becomes apparent that those actions are almost always enacted locally as opposed to globally. In other words, they are the actions of a specific group of people in a specific place at a specific time who have been influenced by all the factors (history, economics, etc.) I mentioned above.

And when you reach that conclusion you realize you're not criticizing Islam anymore, you're criticizing one groups' interpretation and enactment of Islam in specific context.

On the other hand, if you ask which type of criticism gets you more views on TV or more headlines in newspapers...

newtboy said:

He really should have grown some mustard.

As someone who grows and makes much of his own food, including until recently having bee hives, I can't help but wonder, where did he spend the $1500? Airfare? Sourced locally, and with the produce grown at home with manure instead of expensive fertilizers, that should have been about a $30-$50 sandwich (not accounting for the untold labor), including gas to drive to a farm for milk/chicken and to the ocean to get your salt water (OK, add another $50 if you have to rent a boat to get to clean water)...but for that, you probably get around 8-10 sandwiches before needing more chicken, making it really just a $10-$12 sandwich. I'm confused.

GenjiKilpatrick said:

See, Lantern. This is a sober comment from a reasonable perspective.

It's okay, buddy. We all worry about losing our job sometimes.

It's an interesting insight into your fears & frustrations, I guess..

Do you feel burned out, Lantern?
Do you feel like your mind, body ..spirit.. have been wrecked?

Do you LOVE being a Law Enforcement Officer.. but also you feel very.. resentful or disgruntled or bitter.. about?

Are you upset about..?

- How you're mistrusted/hated as a Police Officer by a seemingly huge group of people in this country?

- How you're portrayed to be "Bullies, Bad guys" or "Thugs" in the news media?

- How ignorant some.. most.. people are about how rough it is being a cop?

Does all that stuff make you want to yell & scream sometimes?





Because that's precisely what's it's like for ALL minorities:
Women, LBGTQQ, Indigenous Peoples, People of Color

Why is that lantern? I wonder why that is? Do you know?

You "get that", right?

Are we on the same page here? Because..

Watch the movie again and see how much line the guy pulls up. That's about ten waders in length, almost in the middle of what looks like a well-defined channel. Even if it was out lengthwise, that tells me there's a decent current there.

Next, try and go swimming in waders, or get them off when you're either in water or hanging on to a broken ice ledge.

The guy doesn't have ice pick safety devices in easy reach, it's windy as heck, and the conditions are slushy which means that ice is breaking up. And the ice in the hole doesn't look very thick either, maybe a couple inches from what I can see.

I'm "quick to judge" because I'm also an experienced ice fisherman. From all evidence that's visible in the video, that's a very dangerous way to fish.