"Calling someone a bitch is NO WHERE CLOSE to hatred of women."


Would you say calling someone "gay", i.e. "Shut up faggot!", using it as a synonym for "bad, weak, feminine thing", isn't the least bit implicitly hateful towards homosexuals (and to a lesser extent women) ?

HEY, I've been here! Looks like the secret's out, this is literally one of my favorite places in the world I can escape to with any regular frequency. Huntington Gorge kicks bushels of Green Mountain ass.

Been going here like clockwork every summer since I was about 5 years old. It's about a 25-30 minute drive from Burlington, 15 minutes or so from Essex. Beautiful place, a couple different spots to jump from depending on how bold/experienced you are. A little something for everyone's specific comfort zone.

The spot where all the deaths occur and will probably continue to occur is unsurprisingly the highest/trickiest place to jump from. There's not much clearance on either side of you as you try to clear two overlapping ridges and NOT land in the "dead zone".

Basically, the river current plunges under the bottom of the rock face a few feet away from where you would want to land and goes underground (the regulars refer to it as a whirlpool but I'm not exactly sure what the proper term for it is) for a good 30 feet before resurfacing; the vast majority of people sucked under don't come out the other end, getting pinned against debris (there's said to be a few good sized logs down there) or stuck in a pocket where the oscillating current keeps you in spin-cycle until you drown.

The "newbie" area, in video @ 2:19 with the guy back-flipping, is a 20-25 foot drop with a nice 12 ft circumference pool to land in, 10 feet deep with a soft sandy bottom. This is where you go to build up courage for "the jump". Here, the only thing you really need to worry about is hitting the water properly (clench those cheeks and streamline yourself!).

The slides/caves carved out by waterfalls further up/down river are also places to check out if you're not into the whole thrill-seeking thing, accessibility depending on how dry/wet a summer it's been.

What an utterly agreeable configuration of natural elements this place is, well, for me at least.

Just another love song.

Hey there, and and a semi-belated (sorry about that) thanks! High praise indeed coming from a fellow Sifter I'd describe in pretty much the same terms; I always enjoy reading your well thought out and reasoned comments. Your presence is very much appreciated, as least on my end. Still sorta feel I maybe gave the wrong impression and was misread as a result (a bit too strident maybe?), but oh well. I never quite feel like I'm describing things the way they appear in my brain, but what can ya do?


In reply to this comment by hpqp:
Thank you for speaking my mind with much more eloquence and brevity than I ever could've!

In reply to this comment by AnimalsForCrackers:
>> ^xxovercastxx:

I don't support the idea that you have to respect every opinion but calling people idiots doesn't help either.
One of the things I've come to hate about debate is people are less interested in discussing, comparing and evaluating ideas than they are about thumping their chests and insulting people. Even women are apparently not immune to machismo.
Does anyone really think this is going to help? Will we (atheists) be more accepted/trusted/respected if we just call enough people idiots? Will theists see the errors of their ways if only we insult them enough?
There's a reason argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy; it's a failure to make any relevant argument and often a sign of incompetence.
The objective of debate is to sway people to your side (though not necessarily the people you're arguing against) and you don't do that by forcing them to shore up their defensive wall.


But...but... calling people idiots and addressing the argument aren't mutually exclusive propositions.

Simple insults aren't ad hominem unless they're used as a substitute for actual reasoning. Calling someone an idiot doesn't magically negate the relevant criticism that preceded it.

"Your argument is wrong because you're an idiot, liar, or some other negative human characteristic picked out of a grab bag to give the appearance of discrediting you and thus, your entire argument." = ad hom

Sure, I suppose you could make that argument that even a biting, rational critique interspersed with some choice derogatory flourishes can undermine any attempt at bringing the other person to reason, but I disagree that a definitive statement like yours can be made on whether it's ineffective on everyone; I like to think there's multiple paths of approach. Often the target of ridicule isn't the one you convert, but the people on the sidelines watching.

Looks like a possum. Dat tail.

>> ^ForgedReality:

I had to do it. Don't ask why tinypic changes the extension to .jpg...
http://oi53.tinypic.com/28tz1pg.jpg


Yep. Gotta wonder how that made it past editing. Even after she falls @ 1:11, he has a "fuck yeah!" expression on his face. Hilarious.

< me after reading "...Rick Perry is Going to be Our Next President." >

>> ^xxovercastxx:

I don't support the idea that you have to respect every opinion but calling people idiots doesn't help either.
One of the things I've come to hate about debate is people are less interested in discussing, comparing and evaluating ideas than they are about thumping their chests and insulting people. Even women are apparently not immune to machismo.
Does anyone really think this is going to help? Will we (atheists) be more accepted/trusted/respected if we just call enough people idiots? Will theists see the errors of their ways if only we insult them enough?
There's a reason argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy; it's a failure to make any relevant argument and often a sign of incompetence.
The objective of debate is to sway people to your side (though not necessarily the people you're arguing against) and you don't do that by forcing them to shore up their defensive wall.


But...but... calling people idiots and addressing the argument aren't mutually exclusive propositions.

Simple insults aren't ad hominem unless they're used as a substitute for actual reasoning. Calling someone an idiot doesn't magically negate the relevant criticism that preceded it.

"Your argument is wrong because you're an idiot, liar, or some other negative human characteristic picked out of a grab bag to give the appearance of discrediting you and thus, your entire argument." = ad hom

Sure, I suppose you could make that argument that even a biting, rational critique interspersed with some choice derogatory flourishes can undermine any attempt at bringing the other person to reason, but I disagree that a definitive statement like yours can be made on whether it's ineffective on everyone; I like to think there's multiple paths of approach. Often the target of ridicule isn't the one you convert, but the people on the sidelines watching.

<plays with footage shot in a 3rd-person over-the-shoulder view from the puppies' perspective>

Fixed that for you.

>> ^shinyblurry:

My Dad is an atheist and my mom an agnostistic/near-theist..I was raised with no religion. Was an agnostic secular materialist by default. I received revelation of Gods existence a few years back. Although I am sad I was lied to all my life and believed the lies, I marvel at the fake world we live in, and am amazed more people don't see right through it..but then remember I used to be one of those people. Although I was never so arrogant as to rule out Gods existence, I have empathy a totally unearned and almost comically disproportionate condescension for people who can't see it.

>> ^Ornthoron:

Your hair grows back. Your foreskin doesn't.
>> ^VoodooV:
Your hair was designed to keep you warm too. Hope you anti-mutilation people aren't cutting yours to stay consistent in your views.
What's that? you cut your kid's hair without their consent?!?!! you animal!!!



Oh, you're splitting ball hairs to fit your agenda and you know it!

I will name him, Zangief.

Edit: You know what, nevermind. Ugghh, sorry.

Omg, its granny from Squidbillies!

>> ^deathcow:

it really does seem like his eyes are flying perfectly level and the rest of the body is moving around


Ah yes, the adaptive trait those of us in the biological sciences call "Z-Targeting".