I think its safe to say he's lost the Hispanic vote... doesn't matter really though, he has about a snowball's chance in hell anyway.

He makes a point though... If it is indeed the law for citizens to be able to speak English, then why the debate in Spanish? The debate only matters to citizens because only citizens can vote.


(And here is a good place to have that conversation, Raven )

I think you, yet again, are looking at this from too black and white a position MGR. Yes, the law says one thing, but in practice and on the ground, things are much different. Yes you are right that those who are going to vote already speak English, but many don't speak it well or are not 100% comfortable with it, as they are still in the process of learning. If you've ever learned another language you would understand that, there are subtleties that you just can't possibly pick up on right away, and most likely, you will be forever more comfortable with your first language for the rest of your life. I think its good that they do this, so then citizens who are in that boat can make more informed decisions when it comes to casting their vote. I would far rather have them making an informed choice that they came to on their own, than one that was made for them by a family member, a pastor, or some other, more English savvy, third party. Having the debates in Spanish will empower a great many people with the knowledge necessary to make the decision that is right for them.

Also, the issues that will be discussed in this debate will undoubtedly be keyed towards the issues that concern Hispanic-Americans. Yes, to some extent this is pandering, but I don't think it is any different to the pandering that is already done by many politicians when they suddenly play up their ties to some church or another in the hopes of swaying the religious right. Hispanics, are now this nations largest minority, and vote in greater numbers than most other demographics. Underestimating this is political suicide in this day and age, and therefore, from a political standpoint, pandering to them only makes sense. If Tancredo is sitting this out because it has offended his sensibilities, then he only sounds like a racist hypocrit, because 90% of political campaigning is pandering and I doubt he would be so against it if he liked the demographic he was pandering to... but the guy is a bigoted xenophobe, this isn't the first hint of this, and most of his campaign is in appealing to other bigoted xenophobes who are afraid of Mexicans.

Politicians like Tancredo, and you yourself MGR, need to realize that America is not 'white man's country'. It may have been traditionally run as such in the past when things were different, but given the inherent nature of our constitution (which guarantee a voice to all, race or creed aside) and also the shifting demography of our country, which is at ground level composed of immigrants and subject to the shifts in immigration, America cannot possibly remain forever as a nation run by one race of people over another. Hispanics represent one of the fastest growing segments of society, and if we don't move to include them into our governing structure then our nation will fail to be the representative democracy that it so aspires to be. Also, failure to do such will only lead to political strife in the future, as any country that has failed to accurately represent an ethic or religious group within its government is pretty much setting it self up for a lot of resentment from the disenfranchised, see Lebanon and Iraq if you don't believe me.

And lastly, I think you wildly underestimate just how many people outside our country care about American politics. As the only superpower in the world, what goes down in our political arena affects everyone else. If you need any evidence of this just ask any of the members from this site who are not Americans, a good many of them know way more about American politics than the average American Joe. A debate held on Univision and dubbed in Spanish will undoubtedly be rebroadcast via its affiliates all over Latin America, thereby allowing the people in those countries to get a better, more informed view of the candidates. They might not be able to vote, but I guarantee, that many of them are highly interested in the election, as whoever it is that gains office in this country, will directly effect much of what happens in their countries... so, you cannot say that the debate matters only to those who can vote.

Ah, you are absolutely right on the issue of the debates meaning a lot to those outside our country, I hadn't thought of that.
Also, he might as well just give up. He won't win, and I'm sure he knows that. I just hope that Paul ('cause I'm voting for him) will take strong actions against illegals (from any race) and make sure our country doesn't support them with funding or any other support. Immigration is the only reason our country is as great as it is today. I welcome anyone to live here. Just do it legally, please.

America was indebted to immigration for her settlement and prosperity. That part of America which had encouraged them most had advanced most rapidly in population, agriculture and the arts.
- James Madison

I believe the majority of illegal immigrants do not know that they can enter the country legally through any other means, economic depression of Latin American economies via the heavily skewed NAFTA rulings that benefit corporate expansion out of the US into Latin America has meant that lower class labor has been migrating northward.

The government fails to act to allow legal ways to immigrate into the US on the border areas, the influx would be sufficient to provide physical labor for the agricultural industry, the registration and paths to citizenship or green card status will actually bring out all the illegal immigrants.

The problem is no one wants to put forward the issues as they stand and put forward actual solutions to them, the problem is there, building a huge border fence is not going to stop illegal immigration, but politicians are too afraid to tackle the issue, because they don't know how to present the case to the people.

It always strikes me though when god fearing Democracts/Republicans spout out some bigot hateful shit against people just seeking a better life...

Tom Tancredo is the only Republican who didn't pander to illegal aliens. Check out this funny video spoof he made of the Univision debate. It's hilarious.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5GUCQAdlxgc

As stated before, I don't think that the Univision debate necessarily panders to 'illegal' aliens, but rather the wider Hispanic community... assuming that its targeting illegals is only that, assuming, which Tancredo and others like him always do in regards to this issue, which is a big mistake and serves only to be counter productive.

ps. if you think that vid is so hilarious, why don't you try sifting it and get that P off yer back? Or would that blow your 'cover'?

I'm going to have to agree with Tommy boy on this one. Only because Hispanics are fast become not the largest minority, but the smallest majority. I was stationed at Ft. Bliss, TX (El Paso) for a couple of years, and i can safely say i despised its very existence. (theres allot going into that one) But the biggest reason is because of the Spanish Language. To truly understand, you need some basic info on 2 things. UTEP and PSU. UTEP is their major school down there. Its a shit hole. PSU, Penn State, is a well respected university. My wife is a PSU Graduate, and statistically speaking, more educated that 2/3 of the city. She could not get a job ANYWHERE because she did not speak spanish.

To drive down the road and see Chevy billboards with the motto: An American Revolution all in Spanish really pissed me off. At least here in Korea, i can expect to not know the local language. Its their country. But to not know the language in your own? Thats bullshit. When you have to be Bi-lingual to work at McDonald's? Thats bullshit. To work at a PUBLIC SCHOOL you have to speak Spanish? THATS BULLSHIT. Both true. I'm all about Immigration. Were all immigrants in America. But do it legally. So I agree with MG on this one. A debate in Spanish is kind of unsettling. it all falls back on the press 1 for English thing. I have Mexican friends, I have Puerto Rican friends, So i can assure you that racism plays not part. After all, I'm from Maine, and you'll be hard pressed to find a racist Mainer. In my opinion, forcing everyone to accept Spanish as a second language is only going to force people apart. It will create a more hostile environment than mandating English ever would.

I applaud Tom Tancredo for standing up for what he believes in. It takes balls.