>> ^Asmo:
How wonderfully arrogant. You refuse to accept something ergo it doesn't exist...

I've yet to see one..that's why I invited you to come up with one. You say you don't have to, and I say, you don't have one. If you did you would have used it already.

>> ^Asmo:
No, there aren't, and no, there isn't.

"How wonderfully arrogant. You refuse to accept something ergo it doesn't exist..."

>> ^Asmo:
There is conjecture and hypothesis predicated on belief. In the absence of belief, the "evidence" ceases to function.

The Universe from nothing - logical absurdity

abiogenesis and macro evolution - conjecture and hypothesis predicated on belief

The atheist answer "we don't know, and we're working on it, but you're still wrong"

The theory of God has explanatory power, and is a better explanation for the evidence, such as fine tuning in the Universe, and information in DNA. Scientists cannot explain why the Universe appears fine-tuned for life, so they postulate that we there are multiple universes, and we just happen to be in the one that looks designed. The problem with that theory, besides the complete lack of evidence, is that it violates occams razor by multiplying entities unnecessarily. "I don't know" is not an answer, or a reason to reject a better theory.

>> ^Asmo:
He might have been a real person (much like Hercules/Herakles might have been a real person), but the miracles attributed to him remain unproved.

There is powerful evidence for the resurrection, even that skeptical bible scholars accept. The empty tomb is not as easily written off as many atheists who have never studied the matter imagine. My entire contention is that you can test the claim by asking Jesus to come into your life. It is not a matter of me proving it to you, it is a matter of God revealing Himself to you. He will give you the undeniable evidence that you're looking for. This isn't a game..God loves you and wants you to know Him. All you need to do is ask Him to come into your life and He will do it.

>> ^Asmo:
Yes. I particularly enjoyed the part where god commanded the israelites to commit genocide or where Lot fucked his daughters (you'd think god would have seen that coming and made him leave behind his daughters in S&G cos they were nasty..) It has been venerated for so long that few actually think to question it, and then of course everyone interprets it according to their own beliefs anyway, and ignores the bits they don't want to take notice of (the point of the video above).

You say you've read the bible and this is what you got out of it? Or is it that you've read infidels.org? Are you honestly telling me this is what you've gotten out of your reading of the bible? Even Richard Dawkins respects the bible as a work of literature and historical resource.

>> ^Asmo:
I've also read texts from many other religions. I think the buddhists come closest to the mark.

"The Buddha said that no one should simply believe what he said, but we should all think for ourselves and discover the truth through analytical meditation."

I don't subscribe to their religious views but I like how they think.

Scripture tells us to discern all things. It's not a matter of blindly believing something, as you seem to be implying. If that was all it was, I wouldn't believe it either. It is because of the correspondence to reality, and the undeniable evidence I have received, that I believe it.

>> ^shinyblurry:


It's not that you don't need one, it's that there aren't any.

How wonderfully arrogant. You refuse to accept something ergo it doesn't exist...

>> ^shinyblurry:

There are plenty of logical arguments for the existence of God, and evidence that He created the Universe.

No, there aren't, and no, there isn't.

There is conjecture and hypothesis predicated on belief. In the absence of belief, the "evidence" ceases to function.

>> ^shinyblurry:
I would certainly claim that pulling a deity out of your hat is nonsense. I didn't pull Jesus Christ out of a hat; He is a real person, who claimed He is Gods only Son, which God proved by raising Him from the dead.

He might have been a real person (much like Hercules/Herakles might have been a real person), but the miracles attributed to him remain unproved.

>> ^shinyblurry:


Have you ever read the bible?


Yes. I particularly enjoyed the part where god commanded the israelites to commit genocide or where Lot fucked his daughters (you'd think god would have seen that coming and made him leave behind his daughters in S&G cos they were nasty..) It has been venerated for so long that few actually think to question it, and then of course everyone interprets it according to their own beliefs anyway, and ignores the bits they don't want to take notice of (the point of the video above).

I've also read texts from many other religions. I think the buddhists come closest to the mark.

"The Buddha said that no one should simply believe what he said, but we should all think for ourselves and discover the truth through analytical meditation."

I don't subscribe to their religious views but I like how they think.

hehe i liked the Buddhist jokes

Okay, so I had wrote out a response and saved it in MS Word--and it got deleted somehow on my comp before I posted it. Then I gave up...because that took a long time to write out thoughtfully.... But now that have the free time, I will attempt it again. Plus, I have OCD...

So;

1-Haven't we all? And even if he hasn't, I certainly am not the man to judge.
2-I do assume he would be neutral on race. The problem is his convictions, right or wrong, ere on the side of a dogma-like belief system. His ideals of "liberty" (Whatever that means) above all else is neutral; unfortunately America is not neutral and would turn those ideas into racial superiority somehow. (I.e., he is to stupid and would advocate "freedom" that would open the door for employers to be racist and oppressive, I thinks...)
3-I think John Edward's cheating on his cancer-afflicted wife is far worse than manipulating for power. Nearly every single politician has in some manner stoked the race fires--but not all have betrayed those who loved them personally. Look at the Zimmerman bs and the stoking of that fire pit. America is one big stoke factory whether we like it or not...
4-You don't need to forgive me for being racist, and you don't need to forgive Paul if isn't any longer a racist. In fact, in my case where open and malicious racism was instilled in me early--you should thank me for figuring out a better way. I don't need pitied with forgiveness...and I wish America would stop putting so much emphasis on forgiveness and just move on...
5-Nope... Read 5...
6-Its because its one thing to betray the public--its another to betray those who have loved you. In certain countries or the military Edwards would have been punished with severe prison time or even death. Why? Because such a barbaric betrayal is hard to forgive. A different kind of animal. One is psychotic, the other is opportunistic asshole-ism.

And then

1-When you find yourself smiling at your friend who you have hung out with for over a year, thinking to yourself how much lower he is than you because of his skin, then regretting those thoughts--I attribute it to racism. When you think that his pride in his Hispanic background is nasty--racism... When you try but can't care about his plights of racial injustice, when they stir nothing in your heart--racism.

I am trying to work on it, but that's all I can do. Try. That and be the damned nicest guy I can be, and treat him fairly as a human being should be treated...guess that's all I can do.

2-People can change and they change all the time. I used to hate gays, as I have noted, but now I do not. However, that is not saying I am capable of any change. For example, I doubt I will ever be gay. But who knows--it just isn't happening any time soon. I am more Buddhist in my ways of thinking---it will either change or it will not, and we will either live with it or will not. But try to be the best person you can with what you have and make it the best you can.

>> ^NetRunner:

@Lawdeedaw I think there are several problems with that rant:

1. It assumes Ron Paul has changed
   
2. It assumes Ron Paul would be "neutral" on race
   
3. It assumes John Edwards cheating on his wife is worse than stoking racial animosity for personal gain
   
4. It expects us to forgive Ron Paul's sins, when Paul still denies having made them in the first place
   
5. It expects us to forgive Ron Paul's sins, when Paul hasn't really acted as though this sort of thing is something you need to apologize for and be contrite about
   
6. It expects us to have not forgiven John Edwards, even though he's publicly confessed, and been both contrite and repentant
   

Kung Fu Hustle!-Maybe the guys a reincarnated monk. He's got the chopstick skills but I wonder if he knows the Buddhist Palm?

Thailand based on the western B with vertical strike-through for baht -- and Dag called it, it is roti which you can get with fruit and condensed milk.

From what I know, roti was originally introduced to Thailand through Muslims in the far south provinces, and was originally from India and Pakistan. By now, it is quite popular all through Thailand -- but the best roti shops/stands are usually owned by Islamic families, even up in Northern Thailand where I live. Islam is the second largest religion in the country; I usually see the population here described as 95% Buddhist, 4% Muslim, 1/2% Christian, and 1/2% other.

Wow, this stuff is really disgusting. How is this on CBS news? How is this not a fringe bloody Christian production? Disgusting.

I had a friend in High School that got more and more Christian, and as their Communication Project chose to show us Christian propaganda videos... including ones which decried Yoda as being dangerous and horrible because he espouses a Buddhist like belief, and meditation as a dangerous practice as it opens your mind to Satan.

This sort of shit is just so worrying. It's presented in the style of 'fact' and yet is ENTIRELY sourced from Christian sources.

HOW does this get onto a normal broadcast tv news?

Found a video that may interest you:



>> ^Ryjkyj:
>> ^Doc_M:
Yeah, but that's a bit of a cop-out. "Nobody's got a fucking clue" is kinda lame and certainly offers no hope. Come on. I mean, what do you look forward to?

I look forward to watching my son grow up. And I look forward to a beer with my friends every once in a while. Sometimes I even imagine myself contributing something positive to society, and that people might look back at my life and say: there was a cool fellow. But the jury's still way out on that.
But as to the afterlife, I do have hope. I hope there will be something, that we are all eternal. And I abhor the Buddhist idea of reincarnation because if I am reincarnated, but I don't remember myself, then what's the point? Some people tell me "oh, but you sort of remember parts of yourself." Well, that's not good enough for me. I need to remember most of myself if I'm going to consider that I'm still me. One percent just doesn't cut it.
And I've talked to past-life regression folks who say they can remind you of who you were through hypnosis, but you know the problem with those guys?: Everyone is always Marie Antoinette or the fucking King of England. Nobody is ever Pavle the shit-boy, who was an asshole to everyone they met, who's life was totally uninteresting and who died from unchecked walnut-sliver poisoning. I guarantee you that as many people as you talk to who remember their past lives, not one of them was ever a child with fetal alcohol syndrome who's favorite thing to do was eat butt-crack lint.
But at least those people are somewhat creative. I was raised in the Lutheran church. There was a lot of encouragement to think for myself and very little pressure to just say I believed. And I did believe, for a long time. But the more I went to church, the more I kept thinking to myself that everyone is afraid of dying. Even the people who say that they're going to heaven are afraid of dying. I think if the amount of people who say they believe in heaven actually believed they were going there, the world would be a much nicer place.
But it's not a very nice place is it? No. And I think that one of the reasons it's not is that a long time ago, people figured out a way to exploit the fears of others through religion. It's nice that we can all agree on something that makes us a little happier. But when all is said and done, it doesn't really work too well does it? Everyone is still scared of dying, and every religion thinks that somebody else's religion is the cause of earthquakes, etc, etc... So if you're still going to be scared of things that aren't God, what the hell is the point?
And I think a lot of great things came from religion. Early on, the priests of various groups were often the sole repository of knowledge and the leaders of the advancements in science. But all that is long gone. These days it's all about controlling people.
I don't believe that there's nothing, because that would mean I knew something about what happens after you die; but I'm also not an agnostic who believes that "god is nature" or "god is the universe", and even though sometimes I wish there was an answer to the questions that I ask the sky when I have nowhere else to turn, I am forced to come to the conclusion that I am completely and totally ignorant in the ways of the universe and our purpose here on Earth.
But I certainly hope that this isn't it. And I certainly hope that if there is a god, that it will respect the conclusions that I've come to through the faculties it's granted me.
Maybe Shiny is right. But if I agreed to his terms simply to play it safe, god would know I was lying. And I just can't believe in a god who would encourage me to lie to save my soul.

>> ^Doc_M:

Yeah, but that's a bit of a cop-out. "Nobody's got a fucking clue" is kinda lame and certainly offers no hope. Come on. I mean, what do you look forward to?


I look forward to watching my son grow up. And I look forward to a beer with my friends every once in a while. Sometimes I even imagine myself contributing something positive to society, and that people might look back at my life and say: there was a cool fellow. But the jury's still way out on that.

But as to the afterlife, I do have hope. I hope there will be something, that we are all eternal. And I abhor the Buddhist idea of reincarnation because if I am reincarnated, but I don't remember myself, then what's the point? Some people tell me "oh, but you sort of remember parts of yourself." Well, that's not good enough for me. I need to remember most of myself if I'm going to consider that I'm still me. One percent just doesn't cut it.

And I've talked to past-life regression folks who say they can remind you of who you were through hypnosis, but you know the problem with those guys?: Everyone is always Marie Antoinette or the fucking King of England. Nobody is ever Pavle the shit-boy, who was an asshole to everyone they met, who's life was totally uninteresting and who died from unchecked walnut-sliver poisoning. I guarantee you that as many people as you talk to who remember their past lives, not one of them was ever a child with fetal alcohol syndrome who's favorite thing to do was eat butt-crack lint.

But at least those people are somewhat creative. I was raised in the Lutheran church. There was a lot of encouragement to think for myself and very little pressure to just say I believed. And I did believe, for a long time. But the more I went to church, the more I kept thinking to myself that everyone is afraid of dying. Even the people who say that they're going to heaven are afraid of dying. I think if the amount of people who say they believe in heaven actually believed they were going there, the world would be a much nicer place.

But it's not a very nice place is it? No. And I think that one of the reasons it's not is that a long time ago, people figured out a way to exploit the fears of others through religion. It's nice that we can all agree on something that makes us a little happier. But when all is said and done, it doesn't really work too well does it? Everyone is still scared of dying, and every religion thinks that somebody else's religion is the cause of earthquakes, etc, etc... So if you're still going to be scared of things that aren't God, what the hell is the point?

And I think a lot of great things came from religion. Early on, the priests of various groups were often the sole repository of knowledge and the leaders of the advancements in science. But all that is long gone. These days it's all about controlling people.

I don't believe that there's nothing, because that would mean I knew something about what happens after you die; but I'm also not an agnostic who believes that "god is nature" or "god is the universe", and even though sometimes I wish there was an answer to the questions that I ask the sky when I have nowhere else to turn, I am forced to come to the conclusion that I am completely and totally ignorant in the ways of the universe and our purpose here on Earth.

But I certainly hope that this isn't it. And I certainly hope that if there is a god, that it will respect the conclusions that I've come to through the faculties it's granted me.

Maybe Shiny is right. But if I agreed to his terms simply to play it safe, god would know I was lying. And I just can't believe in a god who would encourage me to lie to save my soul.

*parody for the unbaptism segment

While I believe Bill is right, much of his argument is flawed. Atheism is not the opposite of religion, it's the opposite of theism. There are non-theistic religions, the adherents of which could fairly be called atheists. Some Buddhist sects, for example, have no belief in deities but Buddhism is still a religion.

So, while atheism is not a religion, neither is it the opposite of religion.

>> ^Crosswords:

I don't disagree with the assessments of the video, but I'm pretty certain this is just another one of our famous polished turds. There's a good chance this program is only limited to Dallas county, and may not be in effect, or at the very least hasn't grown.
Canada probably does/did a whole lot more to rehabilitate criminals than Texas ever will. Maybe its easier to show the efficacy of a program when you go to a place where its essentially incarceration without rehabilitation.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/crimereports/10/citCh2.pdf


a polished turd would even be a good start, especially when states are faced with enormous budgetary shortfalls. the Buddhists would say "suffering brings wisdom", altho it might be more apt to say in this case, with financial ruin comes rationality. (hopefully)
all in all, it's a positive at a time when we could use some positives, in a place that one would least expect it.

when you post a video, you clikc submit and then you see the video on its own page.

why don't you vote for your own video?
some buddhist thing?

@shinyblurry
thank you for your response..though in bullet form (blech).
i still find your premise a bit flawed but at least now i have a much clearer understanding where you are coming from,which is the nugget is was searching for.

the debate/discussion concerning politics can be boiled down to one simple question:what should we do as a society?
thats it.
i could go in to much further detail but that would make a comment in to a small novel and i am much more interested in your concluding statements.

you seem to be advocating a theocracy based on biblical principles to establish a religious based government.
the idea of something like that frightens me more than dealing with any single despot or tyrant and history has shown that theocratic rule is anything but righteous,fair or benevolent.
see:
dark ages.
the inquisition.
the crusades.
even as recent as ireland in the 70's and 80's.
when the church dominated the politics of europe,before the reformation,there was more :murder,rape,torture,oppression under an iron-fisted authoritarian rule than any despot could even HOPE to match.
all in the name of god.

freedom of religion is one the best and all encompassing tenants of american society because not only does it give you the RIGHT to worship how you choose but gives your neighbor the RIGHT to either worship under a different doctrine,or not at all.
the LAW is the great equalizer (and one of the things that is being corrupted and a main reason for OWS).

but you propose a theocratic government.
ok.
lets think about that for a moment shall we?
what about the hindus? or buddhist?
are they allowed to worship and pray as is their custom?
or will their be forced chrsitian worship and force them to behave one way in public and worship in secret and private under fear of...what?
what would be the government sanctioned punishment for not adhereing to christian dogma?
death? prison?banishment?
would you REALLY support the criminalization of differing religious beliefs?
is the irony lost on you that early christians had to do hide and skulk in fear of reprisal,even death,for even having the gospel in their midst?worshipping in dark caves in the middle of the night.

and what about catholics?
people banter about the word "christian" as some kind of badge of honor but what about differing theologies?
what if those "christians" are not the right kind of "christian"?
do we segregate the right kind from the 'wrong"?
or are those "wrong" christians just ostracized like a social stigma and we give birth to a new kind of racism.one not based on skin color but rather religious theosophy.

what about me?
you already know that i would considered an apostate to the christian church.
would you watch them burn me?
would you watch in horror as my flesh fell of me like melted ice cream and made yourself feel better by reminding yourself that it was gods will and if only i had accepted the "right" way to be a christian? why did i have to be so stubborn and not see god the way that you did.read the gospel the way you did? believe in the way you did?
would you watch?

and i have to say that i dont fully believe your sincerity when you say jesus would not choose sides,because you know full well that christ walked,talked and ministered to the underbelly of his society at the time.he broke bread with pagans,oracles,the diseased and unwanted.he railed with a savagery against the dominance of the church in his time,the aristocracy and the money makers.
he offered a hope and a freedom.a salvation from those who oppressed.
he pointed to the hill of those in power and told the disenfranchised "my father does NOT reside on that hill.you are NOT forsaken.it is THEY who pretend to hold the key that are lost...but YOU can be found.but not through them but rather through me".(paraphrasing of course).
he was the way and the light.

what makes jesus even more intriguing is that,contrary to a common misconception perpetrated by the church (of course).jesus came from an affluent family.
yes..he did.dont argue.
a carpenter now may be seen as common labor but back in jesus's day a carpenter was a craftsman.the ability to build things not only was held in high regard but was usually someone of affluence,wealth and influence.
how humbling is that?
jesus walked away from wealth,power and influence to bring truth to the poor,oppressed and enslaved and started a movement of his own 2000 yrs ago that slowly and totally underground became one of the most powerful messages even to this day.

now of course over the years those who sought power and influence saw the potential of jesus's message and took it over,perverted it and sold it as somehow being divine.
so not only do i think jesus would stand with those at OWS (and all over the world for that matter) i think he would rebuke the church as well.

oh the delicious irony if that ever really happened.it tickles me to no end.
in any case.
i always appreciate when you respond my friend.

My thoughts:

I've struggled with depression for much of my life, I think I'll probably be struggling with it for most of the rest of it but a few things have made the struggle somewhat easier, mostly this notion of living in the now. Be aware of where your minds eye is wandering, attempt to always bring it back to your present moment. When you live in the past or future you're not really living at all, life just sort of blurs past in front of you as you contemplate your failings or worry about your future. Generally this idea of mindfulness, which has origins in Buddhism, helps me a lot.

Related to that is also learning to detach yourself from your emotions, simply identify them and just understand that they are transitory. I actually picked that up from the SciFi masterpiece, Dune. I read it at a very stressful point in my life and the litany against fear really stuck with me. I really believe fear, above any other emotion, is the most destructive to our ability to think critically and hence live a meaningful existence. Despite being from a fictional religion I think those words contain more truth, at least for me, than anything else I've ever stumbled upon. This idea was reinforced, strangely, by Day[9] of SC2 fame when he replied to a question about how he is so happy.

So our personal philosophies are patchworks of ideas cut from the strangest sources. I'm not a buddhist or a Bene Gesserit, but none the less there are grains of truth in each, as I believe there is some truth in what this video describes. So while I'm not dismissing mainstream medicine when it comes to treating mental illness, but I also think our conscious thoughts are as much a sympton as a cause. When I am in control of my thoughts and emotions I am a happier more productive person, and for that I have to thank not my Dr, but Frank Herbert, Buddhism and Sean Plott (among others).

Anyway, there is a small glimpse into my brain mr anonymous internet stranger.

I think there should be some limits on shorter clips, at least. Something along the lines of what lucky proposed as quoted above, but maybe simpler.

Maybe something as simple as a video's got to be "long" before excerpts are allowed and an excerpt can't be more than 25% of the original. That still seems overly complicated. Maybe excerpts need to be "brief", though that would probably not fly with the pro-excerpt crowd.

Allowing a 50 minute "excerpt" of a 60 minute documentary seems really crazy to me. Why not just get rid of the dupe rule all together at that point?

@mxxcon @brycewi19 @luxury_pie @DerHasisttot @mintbbb

You're all 5 months late to the party.