Be the change you want to see. Challenge22.com

I want to see a world that is like Star Trek, and this is one of the stepping stones imo. And the Gene Roddenberry foundation thinks so too: https://www.livekindly.co/star-trek-foundation-grants-vegan-startup-250k-for-converting-1-6-million-to-plant-based-diet/

Nobody wants to hear these inconvenient truths. Corporations that do business with Walmart give their lowest quality grains and products. It's practically returning to feudalism. Here is your lower class food, peon. Let my massive wealth create another low paying job for you. Oh, college education? Here's a low paying shitty job for you, as well. Unless you like climbing corporate ladders by using other people as stepping stones. This world: brought to by the ruling sociopathic elite. Here's an anonymous reporting system for you to minimize and abuse people who violate your social order. You work faster than everyone else but you talked too much according to anonymous reports, tsk tsk, human resources reeducation after investigating that although you are a superior worker, you talk too much.

I didn't use AOL for long as I quickly found a real ISP, but they were definitely a vital stepping stone for many.

Why not mention races traveling towards us ,could be use as stepping stones .Both ways.

The fireman and cop are basic necessaries for any government. It benefits all.

From your point of view socialist aspects can and should be just about anything. Food distributions, incomes, housing, sexual bents.

democratic socialism. is just short step to Socialism. It is like Obama care is just a stepping stone to single payer ( government) system.

Government does nothing efficiently. Every one know this, Why would anyone want to give them more control?

There is not a difference between Democratic Socialist and Socialist. It is just a terminology to use as a stepping stone towards the full implementation of Socialism. It just semantics to fool the sheeple.


From their web site: American democratic socialist party...
Their Constitution states:

We are socialists because we reject an economic order based on private profit,

We are socialists because we share a vision of order based on popular control.

We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane social order based on popular control of resources and production.

We believe that such a strategy must acknowledge the class structure of American society and that this class structure means that there is a basic conflict of interest.


So Its aim is to make all people equal-
The people run the company.
All get paid equally.
The floor sweeper and the one with the PHD all equal.


If you had talent to open a business should you and your worker make the same money?

Private profit is a bad thing. so much for the entrepreneurial spirit.


Democratic Socialism is a fools paradise.

The self righteousness of your post almost made me feel sick. Vegetarianism SHOULD be a stepping stone to veganism? It SHOULD be whatever the hell you want it to be - for example a temporary situation for when you SHOULD return to eating meat.

Now i'm not going to do what you did and reel off the standard list of reasons why veganism is bad for you, they are well documented and discussed but we all know that it is very possible to have a varied and sufficient diet regardless of what you limit yourself to.

As for your comment about milk, i did a quick bit of research - most of the sources i can find saying that milk causes calcium to be ejected out of the body sourced from the bones and/or cause osteoporosis are new age blog style websites written by a vegan who - like you - clearly has some serious agenda.

As for decent sources, here is what i found:
- Several scientific papers noting that though some observational studies have shown more alkali diets being beneficial to bone health in pre- and post- menopausal women, it has yet to be proven in any definitive clinical trial
http://osteoporosis.org.za/general/downloads/dairy.pdf
(and other sources, but not as scientific)

- The Harvard School of Public Health state that it is not clear what the best source of calcium is for bone health. However the consumption of dairy products has more beneficial effects than just bone health - protection against colon cancer for example, also other vitamins, proteins and minerals that are present.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium-full-story/#calcium-from-milk

Job losses may seem irrelevant to you, but i suggest that's because you have a very very tenuous grasp on the farming profession and don't rely on it for your income. No, you can't simply replace any and all dairy farms/farmers and workers with plant-based farming alternatives. There are a huge number of reasons for this which only a farmer would be able to tell us in detail, but for example - the equipment is different and requires a huge investment (both for acquisition and storage and transport and so on), the land and buildings are not necessarily interchangeable, the skills and knowledge are often built up since childhood and are not instantly transferable, the connections within the industry for logistics and business dealings are different. These are just a few that i thought up.

Yes, some animals are poorly treated in the farming industry and it makes me very sad to think of. However if you are careful and attentive you can ensure that you do not consume any products that were unfairly treated. This is like saying that a minority of clothes sold in shops are made in sweatshops by exploited child labour, therefore we should ban all clothes from the planet.

I could go on and on and on, and even begin my own dissertation on how "everyone going vegan" would be detrimental to overall public health and prosperity; if we grow more crops, more animals must be killed to ensure the crop is healthy and full.. we are not able to process celulose because we evolved.. there are things you can't get from plants that your body needs.. etc. But this comment is already very long, and i think i've broken the backbone of your argument already.

I will mention though that your crusade could end up being very damaging to the health of people who have auto immune diseases and/or allergies that rely on meat to have a balanced and varied diet. I recently discovered that i have coeliac disease (auto immune response to gluten) and secondary lactose intolerance, and i really wish i could explain to you just how difficult it is to avoid gluten containing grains and lactose.

For you it is a choice to not eat anything that comes from animals, for me it is a necessity that i have to avoid gluten and lactose otherwise i get debilitating pain within half an hour. If i did not have access to meat and eggs, there would be very little that i could eat. Wheat is added to almost everything, or almost everything is made in the same vicinity as wheat products resulting in cross contamination. Meat and eggs are sometimes the ONLY thing that i can be sure are safe to eat, and yet some self righteous do-gooder like yourself sits there on a high horse telling me how terrible it is that i inevitably, medically do what our ancestors have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years of human prosperity and ascendance.

If you'd had a bit more of an open mind when you wrote that comment, if i hadn't found out i have these medical conditions, if you'd said things in a debatable way, presented your sources (you provide none), offered it up for discussion rather than a commandment written on a stone tablet, then i probably wouldn't have replied like this. But when i'm forced into doing something and an interfering busybody strolls along and shrieks "oooooooooh you shouldn't be doing that!!!" it really does wind me up.

Go vegan instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9nNa81dSoY
IT'S EASY! Just take a few weeks to get informed, don't jump into it. Read the books suggested below.

Vegetarian is a nice thing to do, but it should be really be only a stepping stone on your path to fully plant based diet. Plant foods are hearty delicious foods like pizza, burgers, lentil shepherds pies, pastas. You just swap out one or two ingredients that are from an animal origin, add more spices/herbs and you have a filling & healthy meal. You can stuff your face, and lose weight, lose the type 2 diabetes and heart disease as well. It's win win.

What many vegetarians don't know is that the milk and dairy industries are often more cruel, than farms that just use animals for meat, and often they are also intertwined. For example, for a cow to produce milk, it must be pregnant. Where do all of the offspring go? Veal if they are male. Or they become milking cows if they are female - destined to be constantly impregnated for their short 4-5 year lives until they die of exhaustion, or can no longer produce milk from exhaustion, and turned then eventually into meat. There are plenty of videos online where a cow gives birth and the calf is dragged away by it's hind legs. They both cry out to each other for days until they're voices give out.
Also cows milk GIVES people osteoporosis because it siphons out calcium from your bones, since it is so acidic. If you measure the amount of calcium in a glass of milk, let someone drink it, and then measure the calcium in their urine, then the urine contains more calcium than what went in. And it's being leeched from the bones.

It's a similar story for chickens. Male chicks get thrown into a grinder ALIVE. Because they're no use if they can't lay eggs.


The toxic waste produced the by milk and egg industries (animal poo etc) destroys environments.

The antibiotics used to keep all of those animals of course ends up in the environment and it will eventually make a super bug which medicine cannot kill.

The job loss portion seems silly, since anyone farming animals is capable of farming plants like rice, potatoes, wheat and grains etc. Those are some seriously nutrient and energy dense foods, and very efficiently produced, and very healthy. Carbs have just gotten a bad reputation thanks the Atkins people. And well we know that Atkins died of a heart attack, he had a history of heart attacks infact. He died overweight.

It is much easier just to go "cold turkey" for 3 or 4 weeks, and become completely plant based since it means your taste buds will adjust and you'll never crave animal products again. Everyone wins, the planet, your health both physical and mental, and of course the animals.

There are plenty off great books with recipes that are familiar and hearty that can help people get started, it's easier than you think. Books such as:
The Starch Solution, Dr. John McDougall.
Negative Calorie Effect, Dr Neal Barnard.
Power Foods for the Brain, Dr Neal Barnard.
Engine #2 Diet, Rip Esselstyn.

I'm not disagreeing with you that there are farms where the animals are treated well in comparison. But the majority of food does not come from these farms. Like you said these are usually small scale operations like your aunt. We're talking 50-60 billion animals a year. Millions of animals per hour in the US alone. They simply need to kill them as young as possible to even meet the demand, through industrialized means. They call it factory farming for a reason.
And no factory farmers don't care about the well-being of animals. Any minor growth benefits of happy animals are easily outweighed by a few hormone injections. It's cheaper and faster. If they cared: They wouldn't rip piglets balls off with their bare hands to neuter them. They wouldn't keep "cage less" chickens in the dark to save on electricity. They wouldn't hold a chickens head to a sander or iron to de-beak them. They wouldn't grind up baby male chickens in a blender alive. They wouldn't cut off pigs tales without anesthetic. So on and So on. Your food might comes from some nice farm like your aunts, but for most of people it does not.

You're right that eating animals that died of old age is probably the only truly ethical way you could eat them. Though they'd have to have reproduced naturally too.

I'm not a fan of the eat less concept because of the morality aspect. It might work for some people, and it's probably not a bad short term stepping stone to get to people thinking about the consequences. But it just doesn't add up to me ethically: I wouldn't go from kicking a dog 10 times a week to just 3 times a week, because it means I'm kicking 7 less dogs. It's still a terrible thing to do, so why even be part of that cycle.

Because most people are raised as meat eaters, I think their perspective is completely wrong, as was mine. When they talk to vegans they always give reasons to not give up animal products. But to me the question really is: What is the reason TO eat any animal products at all?


Health wise it's a no-brainer there are a ton of good books about nutrition, like "How Not To Die" by Dr. Michael Greger, or any book by Dr. Neal Barnard, Dr. Cadwell Esselstyn, or Dr. John McDougall. ( all their work is based on thousands of peer reviewed and published research papers ).

Animal compassion wise it's a no-brainer. Animals want to live and be happy period. Everything else is just an excuse to keep exploiting them.

With documentaries like Cowspiracy and Earthlings coming out, it's people are becoming aware that we're all on one planet and if people went vegan overnight, that's 1/2 of the global warming gone. That's 1 football field a second of rainforest (and all of the animals and unique species ) being destroyed. That's the fish not going extinct in the next 10 years. That's GMO's not killing the pollinating bees and earthworms (which are necessary part of the ecosystem, we'll die without them).

So what reason is really left to eat any animal products?

Taste. People don't want to become vegan because they think they are giving up something and it's not true. It's more like trading a bad habit for something truly great. And it's free. And it has the potential to change the world.

I'm yet to hear a good reason to eat any animal product.(from anyone I mean)

@Quboid

It doesn't take much variance in speed to cause annoyance in other drivers, if this device tells you to slow down even 5km/h (sorry I don't do miles), you're going to be breaking the flow of traffic and people *will* overtake you.

People drive up to and often slightly over the speed limit, you can say whatever you want about what people *should* be doing but it's not reality, so it's moot.

If this doesn't take other drivers in to consideration, the entire thing is pointless other than the light countdown timer, which is handy but could also cause irresponsible driving ("If I speed up now, I'm gonna make it, this thing is switching in 5 seconds!").

What else is it telling you? Start slowing down now but oh wait, 5 cars just took position in front of you...guess the distance I calculated to the traffic light just then is no longer useful, you better slow down another 10km/h, oh hell just look in front of you and slow down to meet traffic conditions.

Ok thanks computer!

There is also an expectation that technology works and it is entirely valid, yes people should use common sense but this doesn't excuse your product for not working, this is silly. The purpose of technology is to work so transparently, you are doing less thinking so you can focus on more important things, like sudden high impact situations that require heroic reaction times.

Anyway, I don't think this is bad tech, I think it is not particularly useful in today's environment and is just an odd stepping stone to proper smart cars. I think the gradual progression to smart cars is the fault of an uneducated public who have unfounded hate in the concept of letting go of driving to a computer.

I just want smart cars every where for everyone, so we can have safe and effective roads.

...a credit to the talent of Boyce and Hart.

...and don't forget Stepping Stone.

There was one real musician among them,...know whom?

I agree with you @RedSky It has gone beyond the point of no return. I think Glen is effective in offering a correct diagnosis and a prevention for future incidents rather than a cure for this one.

@bcglorf You kind of lost it on the 2nd post. There's a lot of misinformation used there. Your first post is relevant insofar as Glenn is lying by omission. However, don't confuse omission for tacit endorsement. You are right that these are things that some people do and all people should know but sadly they don't. View this merely as a stepping stone towards greater acceptance of the facts; facts that a hell of a lot of Americans refuse to admit. So much so that it does not even enter the debate before "Why do you hate America" is thrown.

Don't call it a comeback, I'll have hair for years.

I'm scared. I'm scared that my abilities are gone. I'm scared that I'm going to fuck this up, and I'm scared of you.

I don't wanna' start, but I will.

This is an invocation for anyone who hasn't begun, whose stuck in a terrible place between 0 and 1.

------

Let me realize that my past failures that follow through are no indication of my future performance, their just healthy little fires that are gonna' warm up my ass.

If my FILDI* is strong let me keep him in a velvet box until I really really need him.
If my FILDI* is weak let me feed him oranges and not let him gorge himself on ego and arrogance.

Let me not hit up my Facebook like it's a crack-pipe, keep the browser closed.

If I catch myself wearing a tutu (too), too fat too late too old, let me shake it off like a donkey would shake off something it doesn't like.

When I get that feeling in my stomach, you know that feeling when all the sudden you get a ball of energy and it shoots down into your legs and up into your arms and tells you to stand up and goto the refrigerator and get a cheese sandwich - that's my cheese monster talking. And my cheese monster will never be satisfied with cheddar, only the cheese of accomplishment.

Let me think about the people that I care about the most. And how when they fail or disappoint me I still love them, I still give them chances, and I still see the best in them - let me extend that generosity to myself.

Let me find and use metaphors to help me understand the world around me, and give me the strength to get rid of them when it's apparent that they no longer work.

Let me thank the parts of me that I don't understand or are outside of my control, like my creativity and my courage.
Let me remember that my courage is a wild dog, it won't just come when I call it. I have to chase it down and hold on as tight as I can.

Let me not be so vain to think that I am the sole author of my victories, and a victim of my defeats.

Let me remember that the unintended meaning that people project on what I do is neither my fault, nor something that I can take credit for.

Perfectionism may look good in his shiny shoes, but he's a little bit of an asshole and nobody invites him to their pool parties.

Let me remember that the impact of criticism is often not the intent of the critic, but when the intent is evil that's what the block button is for.

And when I eat my critique, let me be able to separate out the good advice from the bitter herbs.

*Can't understand the over-dub'd speech*

Let me not think of my work only as a stepping stone to something else, and if it is let me become fascinated by the shape of the stone.

Let me take the idea that has gotten me this far, and put it to bed. What I'm about to do will not be that. But it will be something.

There's no need to sharpen my pencils anymore, my pencils are sharp enough - even the dull ones will make a mark. Warts and all.



Let's start this shit up.

And god let me enjoy this, life isn't just a sequence of waiting for things to be done.


-----

* FILDI = Fuck it let's do it.

Hmmm...

I don't have an issue with the wage itself. I worked retail for years. Retail doesn't pay high wages. Any of them, it's not a high skill sector. It's not somewhere I'd want to be my entire life and should most likely be considered a "stepping stone" line of work. For some though, they never get out - partly because of the draw and promise of climbing the corporate ladder to success and some because that's just the best they can do. It's retail - not one is asking for an engineer's pay scale. I don't know about the US, but in Canada, WalMart only pays minimum wage for sales associates, tellers and floor staff.

What I do have an issue with is the way Wal-Mart (and some other retail companies) treat their employees. Almost all positions are part-time. They don't hire more than a few full time employees. Full time employees cost more money in benefits and you can't reduce their weekly hours to make the monthly budget.

Store managers are given very small monthly budgets for man hours. They have to stretch those hours, and place the man power only at peak periods. Part time employees are easier to move around the schedule because they aren't respected, they can also be made to work seven days a week if you give them the min hours per day as possible. They are hired for that purpose. The problem is that people's lives don't function that way. These people also need to have second jobs. You are expected to make WalMart your primary job (even if it's only part time). They may schedule only eight hours in a week. If you have a second job with set hours, Walmart will not work with you because they don't care.
There are all kinds of issues that arise but scheduling is a huge issue.

Benefits. WalMart benefits are so meager, I'm not sure why they bother. I've heard first hand how the medical coverage they offer is lousy and most people end up paying out of pocket for additional insurance if they actually expect to be treated.

WalMart is predatory retail. They have employees that are paid to shop the community and undercut every product that can be bought elsewhere - even if it means they sell at a loss. They increase the prices on every item that cannot be bought locally - even if it means inflating it artificially higher than it's worth. They especially target the small businesses. Once they are able to put those businesses out of business, they will raise all the prices they once sold at a loss because now you don't have a choice. From a business point of view, their process is very smart, it takes every opportunity it can to get your dollar. on the flip side, if everyone is out of business, they can't afford to shop anywhere else. Eventually all retail business employees will be WalMart Employees. It's a downward spiral that isn't sustainable.

WalMart are Bullies. They have the biggest and most expensive lawyers in the business. They can afford it. and if they can't win, because they know they are in the wrong, they will just stonewall until the opposition runs out of money and still win by default. If there is something they want, they get it because they have the wealth, money and power to make it happen - fair practices be dammed!

>> ^spawnflagger:

I guess the "sarcasm" checkbox was ineffective... Yes I think it's a neat idea, and I'm sure when these guys are "deployed" out in public, there would be plenty of time to actually read the sign.
I wonder how well they handle a windy day? Or maybe they only do indoor advertising in malls/etc.
>> ^dannym3141:
>> ^spawnflagger:
wow, they are so talented. I wish there was some way to contact them... like a billboard with a phone number that you can actually read.

This was an exhibition, being able to twirl a sign like a magician every 5 seconds compared to a signpost or a bloke holding a sign? Imagine if you were waiting for your wife shopping, or sat in a traffic jam or something. It's a really great way to stand out i think. I know you ticked sarcasm, mainly wanted a stepping stone to praise the idea!



I wonder if this is why i've never seen a person holding a sign even sedately. Are they based somewhere where wind isn't often a problem?

(also, as i said, i know and i just wanted an "in" to praise sign flipping really)