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newtboy (Member Profile)

transmorpher says...

I can only speak for myself I guess, but certainly when I would order a chicken burger, I would only think about juicy soft chicken breast with a crunchy outer bread layer and the mayonnaise. There's no way I would order the burger and think about where the chicken came from, what happened to it, how it felt while hanging upside down, and the sad existence it lived prior to that.

Obviously everyone knows that meat comes from a farm. But again speaking for myself, once you know the reality of it, it's a different story.

If you have any hints on how to make headway without even unwilling being insulting while trying to make my points, I'm all ears

newtboy said:

Oh no, I'm not feeling guilt or shame, but thanks for the concern. ;-)

I'm saying that inflicting guilt and shame are the obvious intents of your posts, even if not intentionally. You are trying to 'educate' people so they know to feel guilty or ashamed of how they live/eat, in the hope that that guilt/shame will get them to stop eating meat.
I think (I hope) that people who've never thought about the fact that meat is an animal are few and far between, and that most people make an informed choice. I've gone farther in that sense than most since my family raised many types of meat, humanely, and even butchered our own when I was young, but I give people the benefit of a doubt that they aren't just eating meat and not connecting it with an animal. I'm sure a few are, but I think not many.

I find it insulting to imply that people haven't thought it through...but I know I'm a weirdo so perhaps I'm the only one insulted and I should just shut up. ;-)

Why DOES the worm talk like a lamb? ;-)

newtboy (Member Profile)

transmorpher says...

No problems at all. I used to hate vegans with a passion, I'd be the first person to shout them down in public even at the expense of dignity So I know what it's like to be on both sides of the concept.

There are also definitely a good number of dickhead vegans, who use it as a social status, and they are often the loudest, so I'm not surprised that people automatically take insult to anything with the vegan label attached to it.

newtboy said:

That idea came directly from ahimsa, (who I've been going back and forth with all day) who specifically said today that convincing people to adopt veganism is about 'social justice'.
I'm sincerely sorry if I attributed that sentiment to you inappropriately.

What I find insulting is the sudden influx of a number of vocal, shaming, guilt spreading vegans here trying to make everyone think just like they do or else feel ashamed and like they're terrible, evil, abusive people...or unthinking idiots. I'll only speak for myself, but I don't want to see that here.
You're welcome to your opinion, and welcome to share it, but when you start telling other people what THEY should or must do/feel/think, you've crossed a line into social justice warrioring, and I'll rail against it every time I notice that happen. When you add multiple propaganda links, the bile will build quickly.

I read the update. It gave some insight to your thought process, but didn't solve my issue.
You're mistaken, and it seemed a bit narcissistic, to think everyone that doesn't agree with you must just be naïve and has never considered this subject thoughtfully. The anger stems from THAT (apparent) insulting thought, not from some internal logic struggle about loving some animals and eating others (or maybe loving AND eating some), it's anger at people telling others how to think, how to act, how to feel, how to eat....and vitriol when the reasoning behind that direction comes from questionable at BEST, completely discredited at worst, internet propaganda posing as science. THAT is a big pet peeve of mine, no matter what the subject may be, and I've been dealing with it all day long.
It may have been inappropriate to lump you in with him, again I apologize if the complaint didn't fit.

transmorpher (Member Profile)

transmorpher says...

No problems at all. I used to hate vegans with a passion, I'd be the first person to shout them down in public even at the expense of dignity So I know what it's like to be on both sides of the concept.

There are also definitely a good number of dickhead vegans, who use it as a social status, and they are often the loudest, so I'm not surprised that people automatically take insult to anything with the vegan label attached to it.

newtboy said:

That idea came directly from ahimsa, (who I've been going back and forth with all day) who specifically said today that convincing people to adopt veganism is about 'social justice'.
I'm sincerely sorry if I attributed that sentiment to you inappropriately.

What I find insulting is the sudden influx of a number of vocal, shaming, guilt spreading vegans here trying to make everyone think just like they do or else feel ashamed and like they're terrible, evil, abusive people...or unthinking idiots. I'll only speak for myself, but I don't want to see that here.
You're welcome to your opinion, and welcome to share it, but when you start telling other people what THEY should or must do/feel/think, you've crossed a line into social justice warrioring, and I'll rail against it every time I notice that happen. When you add multiple propaganda links, the bile will build quickly.

I read the update. It gave some insight to your thought process, but didn't solve my issue.
You're mistaken, and it seemed a bit narcissistic, to think everyone that doesn't agree with you must just be naïve and has never considered this subject thoughtfully. The anger stems from THAT (apparent) insulting thought, not from some internal logic struggle about loving some animals and eating others (or maybe loving AND eating some), it's anger at people telling others how to think, how to act, how to feel, how to eat....and vitriol when the reasoning behind that direction comes from questionable at BEST, completely discredited at worst, internet propaganda posing as science. THAT is a big pet peeve of mine, no matter what the subject may be, and I've been dealing with it all day long.
It may have been inappropriate to lump you in with him, again I apologize if the complaint didn't fit.

newtboy (Member Profile)

transmorpher says...

Saving animals has got nothing to do with social justice.

Also I'm not sure why you find what I said insulting. You'll notice I said that it was a wonderful thing that the deer was saved.


P.S. I updated my comment perhaps it will give you more insight into my reasoning.

newtboy said:

I'm starting to understand why people respond to vegans by saying "I'm just going to eat more meat to spite you".
You guys aren't making any friends here with this non stop insulting social justice warrioring.
If you feel the need to constantly try to make people feel bad about their lives, go back to YouTube or Reddit.

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