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2020 Jeep Wrangler Rolls Over In Small Overlap Crash Tests

newtboy says...

Both crumpled zones, cancels out. In fact the deflected car uses the crumple zone to better effect. The point is to make the sudden stop slower, which rolling undeniably did.
Both push the other car, cancels out.
Same car at same speed comparison, cancels out.
See what I mean about arguing. You're complaining I omitted things that have zero bearing in an honest comparison.

Have you been in 5 rollovers and over 20 dead stops? I have.

Fuck! Yes, you might get injured...in either. One you get 50 gs, one you get 1.2gs. No brainer to those not brain dead. Come on.

Yes, but they measured impact and g forces non the less. See the results? Notice they're all green "g"s? Notice it wasn't a fail on injuries, or g forces, but on their baseless notion that any roll, no matter how slow and safe, is unacceptable.

Now I'm done here. Your obstinance and silly best case vs worst case with zero evidence, then decrying my lack of rollover test data, is maddening and not at all worth this effort to prove something you believe is wrong, especially since you discount a 50-1 g force impact. Bye bye

wtfcaniuse said:

You're massively oversimplifying things again. Where is your crumple zone math? Where is your math showing how much force is imparted into pushing the car in front forward based on whether it has it's brakes on, is still moving, etc, etc, etc.

Your personal experience is not extraordinary. I have been in accidents, I didn't bother to bring it up because it doesn't mean anything.

I'm not arguing that higher G forces don't correlate with more severe injuries, that's not the point . The point is that CSI injury is very complex, complexities that can cause severe injury with minor force in situations like.. a rollover.

from the report you mentioned,

"The partial rollover presents an additional injury risk beyond what the standard crash test criteria are intended to measure"

2020 Jeep Wrangler Rolls Over In Small Overlap Crash Tests

wtfcaniuse says...

You're massively oversimplifying things again. Where is your crumple zone math? Where is your math showing how much force is imparted into pushing the car in front forward based on whether it has it's brakes on, is still moving, etc, etc, etc.

Your personal experience is not extraordinary. I have been in accidents, I didn't bother to bring it up because it doesn't mean anything.

I'm not arguing that higher G forces don't correlate with more severe injuries, that's not the point . The point is that CSI injury is very complex, complexities that can cause severe injury with minor force in situations like.. a rollover.

from the report you mentioned,

"The partial rollover presents an additional injury risk beyond what the standard crash test criteria are intended to measure"

newtboy said:

Nope. Watched them closely.
Hitting a car flat at 60 km or mph is going to stop you in <1/10 of a second. I counted >4 seconds to stop with a flop in the video. Same kinetic energy absorbed. Δv = 30mph Δt= .1 vs 4. Do the math. Case closed.

Fine. God forbid you listen to someone with extraordinary personal experience in this matter and a grasp of physics.
You go for the dead stop next time you're in a wreck, I'll turn my wheel.

There are variables in car wrecks. You want to compare best case scenario sudden stops with absolute worst case rolls. Feel free to think that way. It's not reasonable. I'm done.

Then look at the dummy data if immutable physics laws aren't enough for you, but no citation is needed to conclude that exponentially higher G forces cause higher level injuries, even if the angle isn't the worst possible for a specific spinal injury.

I've given you my personal vast experience, physics, and common sense. You give me apple to oranges, and exaggerate the juiciness of the apples while only mentioning dehydrated oranges. I'm done. Believe what you want, but I hope you don't have to test your theory.

The Economics of Nuclear Energy | Real Engineering

newtboy says...

Kinda lost me when he claimed wind creates 11g CO² per kwh with no reference, calculations, or explanation.
Wind energy production is zero emission.
Are they including every gram produced by every step of construction and estimating a short lifespan, but not doing the same for nuclear, which takes exponentially more resources to build, run, fuel, store waste, and dismantle?
I also have a problem with him saying more expensive, higher profit natural gas plants have better prices because they're much HIGHER than nuclear prices per kwh.
He seems to ignore the spent fuel disposal/storage costs, which are significant in both cases, but while the natural gas plants don't pay for their waste (massive amounts of CO² and methane), nuclear has no choice.
Diablo canyon refurbishing was canned after Fukashima, because it's got all the same dangerous issues of being in an active earthquake/tsunami zone right on the coast with no way to shield itself from tsunamis. Before Fukashima, they totally planned to revamp and continue operations.
His levelized cost of electricity slide conveniently ignores the cost of environmental damage caused by fuel production/use.
Include all costs, coal is worst, followed by natural gas, then nuke, hydro, wind, and solar cheapest. Geothermal is great, but only in areas where it can be easily tapped, which are few and far between.

In short, his vast oversimplification and inconsistencies in what's included in his cost basis make his conclusions relatively meaningless, imo.

2020 Jeep Wrangler Rolls Over In Small Overlap Crash Tests

newtboy says...

Why bring it up? Because the flop was far less violent than the other crashes. The energy it took to flip the jeep used up kinetic energy the other trucks put into stopping hard and fast. Having experience with rolling, I know they aren't as scary or violent as people expect.
My speed at the start of a couple of my rolls was up to 80mph, not controlled and slow. They were faster than this test. Like this test, the act of rolling slowed the vehicle considerably. My seat was not much deeper than many seats I see in cars, but slightly. My interior, however, was bare metal everywhere, not padded pleather. Because there are zero crumple zones, the impact was absorbed by the frame, so transferred throughout the seat to me.
As for whiplash, I think the heavy helmet I was wearing would multiply that, not protect from it. I had no hans device, no helmet straps.

Edit: rollovers like this are less likely to cause whiplash or spinal injury than coming to a dead stop like the trucks did.

Is it exactly the same? No. Is it significantly similar? Yes. Do I have a decent idea of what a violent rollover is like. Yes. Better than around 99.999% of people.

wtfcaniuse said:

So a relatively controlled and slow "flop" in a harness with a racing seat designed for lateral support rather than a high speed collision causing whiplash followed by a "flop" in a typical vehicle. Why bother bringing it up?

Police Who Murder Man In Public On Camera Fired

eric3579 says...

So this guy who started bustin up the first place that burned down tonight in Minneapolis has some saying he's been identified as a police officer

the guy bustin up the place https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/gsgwpm

Social media post/convo that points to him be identified. https://twitter.com/ASB_Breaking/status/1266182888170631169

Police say it's not him https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/jacob-pederson-auto-zone-cop-not-umbrella-man/

no idea if any of this holds water as i just saw most of it quickly and didn't want to take to much time looking into it all. I found much of it in this reddit thread https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gsgwpm/video_proof_that_the_protesters_didnt_start_the/

Trump Walks Away After Being Challenged on Virus Testing

newtboy says...

Sure, because Obama never once took a question from any reporters or from right wing media...remember them, those non reporters who would repeatedly ask about his birth certificate being fake, or Benghazzi because then every single American life lost from a lack of foresight was reason for removal and prison unlike now when 80000 dead at Trump's tiny feet is a win in their eyes and not the president's responsibility at all, or lies about the ACA they knew were lies (death panels), etc.

Trump should know exactly how to deal with Incessant bashing , second guessing of every move, decision over last 3 years... even outright lies designed to make his presidency illegitimate, that's exactly what Trump was doing 3 years into Obama's administration. If you can't take it, don't dish it out snowflakes.

Trump failed at leadership at every turn here, from ignoring the danger for months until public outcry finally got some minimal actions, clearly too late and weak actions like halting only some Chinese from the quarantine zone but letting 40000 people from the area in without testing or tracing or quarantine. From continuing to facilitate shipping American PPE to China and elsewhere through March and maybe later, long after there were massive shortages here, to ignoring American manufacturers who in early February were offering to ramp up production and charge regular price, not a 1000% markup like Trump's federal distributors do, from absolute denial of the problem to debunked conspiracy theories that barely mask the underlying racism featured in this latest attempt to shirk any responsibility for his administration's failures that cost 80000+ American lives...the buck never once stops with Trump in his mind, the direct opposite of being presidential. *facepalm

If nothing is your responsibility or fault, you're far too impotent to fix anything. That's Trump.

Trump is a racist coward who can't answer even softball questions from Fox sycophants without looking stupid and naive. If you don't have the backbone or intelligence to answer basic factual questions with calm civility, you don't belong in ANY public office, much less the highest one.

bobknight33 said:

Why does Trump even bother with media. Incessant bashing , second guessing of every move, decision over last 3 years. Watch the full clip. Trump is right to walk away.

How Wind Turbines Make You Sick | Rare Earth

spawnflagger says...

There are cases of people who claimed this hypersensitivity, and when they went to a radio telescope area in WV that has a "radio blackout zone", their health improved. A better experiment would be to take them there "blind" without them having any knowledge of what the place is, to see if they improved without knowledge of the blackout.

BSR said:

The Chuck McGill effect. Electromagnetic HyperSensitivity

Finally a Doctor on the News Talking Fucking Sense

newtboy says...

It's been well known since January if not before that asymptomatic people can transmit Coronavirus. This has been widely reported and warned about publicly in congressional hearings by CDC officials for months.

Whether or not the governor of Georgia really just erased his inexplicable ignorance yesterday, not ordering citizens to stay home is arguably criminal negligence (Criminal negligence refers to a mental state of disregarding known or obvious risks to human life and safety.) and he should go to prison along with any governor that denies the obvious dangers of not issuing a shelter in place order. Remember, the 100000-250000 expected American deaths are the prediction only if the entire country takes social distancing/shelter in place seriously, if just one state refuses and becomes a viral hot zone that number could reach 6000000 or higher.
*quality

100% Renewable energy by 2050? Europe's energy suppergrid

vil says...

This still does not wish away the problem of having to cover all wind and solar power sources with backups for windless nights.

North Africa is still the same time-zone. Consider connecting Australia.

Fireworks ban in Hawaii, does it work?

Precision Water Drop Saves Home

SFOGuy says...

--Hot summer with global warming (no moisture in anything)
--Drought for years in California (tinder)
--House in the urban/brush/wild zone probably because--it's pretty and they want seclusion--but---lots of fuel nearby that's dry and uncut.
--Building site at the top of a ridge (for the views--but flames propagate up hills)
--That house isn't going to last out the full duration of its mortgage, most likely

Back-To-School Essentials | Sandy Hook Promise

wraith says...

Thank you for your reply Harlequinn.

I beg to differ: The rate of gun deaths in the USA is only low when compared to countries that are either active (civil-) war zones or basically run by drug cartels. When compared to other, similar developed countries, it is at least 4 times as high (when excluding suicides/accidents) .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
I would call that a significant deviation from the norm and stand by my use of "staggering".

You compare gun deaths to deaths from car crashes. Others have already pointed out that one of the main differences is that cars are not tools for killing that are put into public hands and furthermore, since I asked you the question (that you did not answer): "Is the reason for the Second Amendment worth the amount of gun violence in the USA?", my follow up question would be: I can show you the (financial, societal, etc.) benefits of cars (i.e. individual travel by car) for the society, what exactly are the benefits of private gun ownership?
(Whether cars are really worth it, is a whole other discussion.)

Regarding suicide rates, this seems to be a compelling argument until you notice that suicide rates in some, equally developed countries and some lesser developed countries are higher than in the USA and that the number of gun killings that are not suicide is still way higher than in comparable countries (see above).

I do not think that gun violence in the USA can be blamed on mental health issues though <irony>unless you count gun/power fetishism among mental illnesses </irony>.
Edit: Saying that whoever commits an act of gun violence must be mentally ill is tantamount of saying that any criminal must be mentally ill and thus not responsible for his/her actions.

<aside>
One nice observation about this gun fetish (not by me, I think it was Bill Burr): Another common argument pro guns is that people are in it only for home security, if that were the case you would have tons of photos of people with their new door locks or magazine-covers with girls in bikinis in front of security doors.
</aside>

I applaud your stand on public (mental-) health policies though.

Now to your main question:
Have I ever encountered interpersonal violence against me or others?
Yes, but not on a level that bringing lethal force to the situation ever seemed warranted. Thankfully. One obvious reason for that is that I live in a country where I don't need to expect everyone else to carry a gun.
Would it be possible that I would think otherwise, if it would have been the case? Yes.
Would I be correct in thinking that way? No.

To explain: I am not a friend of passive aggressive "stand you ground" thinking. The sane response chain is: 1. Try not to let yourself be provoked, 2. try to de-escalate, 3. try to evade/flee, 4. try to defend yourself.....And of course: CALL THE COPS!

Does that harm my male ego? Yes.
Does that matter enough to me for me to risk killing another human being? No.

harlequinn said:

Thanks for the good questions.

a) yes
b) yes
c) no
d) yes
e) n/a

If you exclude suicide, the USA doesn't have a staggering rate of gun deaths. It is high compared to some other western countries, but on a world rate it is still very low.

When looking at public health (which is the reason for reducing gun violence) you need to be pragmatic. What will actually give a good outcome for public health? In this case there are about a half a dozen things that kill and maim US citizens at much higher rates than firearms do.

E.g. you are much more likely to be killed in a car crash than murdered by someone with a firearm. Cars by accident kill more people in the USA each year than firearms do on purpose. That's some scary shit right there. Think about that for a second, cars are more dangerous than firearms and people are not even trying to kill themselves or someone else with one. So as an example, you'd be better off trying to fix this first.

Or fix the suicide rate in the US. People aren't in a happy place there.

Obesity kills more people. Doctor malpractice kills more people. Etc. But these are hard issues to tackle that will cost billions or trillions. The low hanging fruit is firearms.

Free health care and mental health care, a better social security system, and various other means would all have magnificent outcomes on everyday life in the USA. But again, they cost a lot and require a paradigm shift.

Have you ever encountered interpersonal violence against you (i.e. had someone attack you)? Or have you maybe worked in a job where you often come into contact with people who have been attacked? I find people change their mind after they realize that they were only ever one wrong turn away from some crazy bastard who wanted to hurt them badly.

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How Stephen King Predicted Trump's Rise Decades Ago

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