>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
My dad would always reference this kinda idea about the strength of the migs. You could land them without the gear and just take off again. You might be able to land it safely without the gear, but it is clear you can't take off without it. With that said, it stood up to the test pretty well otherwise...engines didn't seem to be phased by the tarmac going into the intake!


nitpick:

MiG-29s have FOD shields that cover the intakes during takeoff and landing. Louvres on the top of the LERXs open to provide air to the engines.

Admittedly, this sort of incident is probably not what the designers planned for.

My dad would always reference this kinda idea about the strength of the migs. You could land them without the gear and just take off again. You might be able to land it safely without the gear, but it is clear you can't take off without it. With that said, it stood up to the test pretty well otherwise...engines didn't seem to be phased by the tarmac going into the intake!

CNN:
"John McCain’s running mate took questions from her press corps for the second time in three days late Sunday after flying into Colorado Springs. But Palin was not completely on message.

Wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt and standing on a breezy tarmac, Palin said that if she had her way, the McCain campaign and the Republican National Committee would not be flooding battleground states with automated phone calls tying Barack Obama to former radical William Ayers, as they have done over the last week.

Several top Republicans, including Senators Susan Collins and Norm Coleman, have condemned the tactic. Asked about those criticisms, Palin at first dismissed the matter as "inside baseball stuff" and said it's "some of the campaign top brass’s call on that."

But when asked if she would approve the use of robocalls if she were running the campaign, Palin said she’d probably chart a different course.

"If I called all the shots, and if I could wave a magic wand," Palin said, "I would be sitting at a kitchen table with more and more Americans, talking to them about our plan to get the economy back on track and winning the war, and not having to rely on the old conventional ways of campaigning that includes those robocalls, and includes spending so much money on the television ads that, I think, is kind of draining out there in terms of Americans' attention span.

"They get a bit irritated with just being inundated," she continued, "and you're seeing a lot of that of course with the huge amounts of money that Barack Obama is able to spend on his ads and his robocalls also."

I do remember watching a Discovery channel show on the shoot-down. Even with all the other factors, one of the root causes was a software error.

The radar and tracking locked onto the IFF of an F-14 on the tarmac at the airport, the same airport that the plane was taking off from. The operator didn't re-lock tracking on the incoming passenger plane. There was no indication that the IFF was on another plane. While they were tracking the passenger plane for airspeed, altitude, etc., the IFF was locked on the F-14.

There were many other problems including the ones listed above, but the whole thing was a breakdown of procedure, technology, and communication.

^Have you been following the situation RhesusMonk? The UN, USA, Britain, Australia and many other nations and organisations have aid and people waiting on the tarmac but Burma's military rulers are denying them entry visas. That looks like a pretty direct cause of people dying due to lack of access to aid thanks to the Junta's stubbornness.

Flies fast, handles like a slug (by today's standards). Interesting design, but not very environmentally friendly The sucker leaks fuel out of its seams on the tarmac. Only once it takes off and starts to fly at speed for a while does the metal expand and start to seal the thing up. I saw one of these at the Air and Space museum. Beautiful plane for sure.

SR did its job.. reconnaissance. I wouldn't want to be in one in combat... its best defense is flying at very high altitude and high speed. Spy satellites and long range unmanned drones do the same job these days.

http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/26/10234/1725/937/484182

- Associated Press, 3/17/08

"Everyone else was told to sit on their bulletproof vests," Clinton said. "And we came in, in an evasive maneuver....There was no greeting ceremony, and we basically were told to run to our cars. Now, that is what happened."

"I certainly do remember that trip to Bosnia, and as Togo said, there was a saying around the White House that if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn’t go, so send the First Lady. That’s where we went. I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

"[S]he evoked foreign battlefields, recalling a trip to Bosnia as first lady, when the welcoming ceremony ‘had to be moved inside because of sniper fire.’ She said she had traveled to more than 80 countries and was ‘on the front lines’ as the United States made peace in Bosnia and Northern Ireland and helped save refugees from ethnic cleansing in Kosovo."

"I was the first, you know, high-profile American to go into Bosnia after the peace accords were signed because we wanted to show that the United States was 100 percent behind the agreement. We wanted to make it clear to the Bosnians of all backgrounds. Plus we wanted to thank our American military and our allies for a great job. So, we landed in one of those corkscrew landings and ran out because they said there might be sniper fire. I don’t remember anybody offering me tea on the tarmac."

I didn't mean to upvote that comment.

>> ^dgandhi:
> ^MarineGunrock:
>
I already sited my personal experience, not media reports or vids on the net. I have seen cops do some good, and I have seen them, with my own eyes, do lots of fucked up shit.

That isn't a citation. That's you giving me a personal account. A citation is a study conducted over a widespread area over a period of time. I don't want some half-ass media report or a YouTube video - that won't show anything. Just because you've had more bad run-ins with cops than good doesn't mean the cops in your area are bad. For all I know, you're a little punk that thinks he should be able to do whatever he wants without "the man" getting on your back and you yourself are incredibly disrespectful to them the instant they show up. You could aslo be a very upstanding citizen, but I just don't know.


You mean to tell me that people everywhere would obey traffic signs and speed limits if there was no chance of them getting a speeding ticket - just out of their good nature?

I do, I fail to see the absurdity of being responsible. I can not tell you how many times I have had people ask me "you're an anarchist, why are you driving the speed limit?". The answer is simple I have not externalized my responsibility to some state-sanctioned father figure. I am able to deduce, with out much assistance, that driving a ton off steel down a tarmac byway at more then 10mph is fucking dangerous, and since everybody knows the posted rules, it's safest to abide by them, since being predictable in a dangerous situation is safer then the alternative.


No one ever claimed that being responsible was absurd. Those are your words, not mine. But it's funny how you say we should follow the rules since they're already there. How on Earth does that coincide with being an anarchist?

I am not moved by your appeal to fear, since your theoretical situations don't reflect my lived experience. The rationals for policing, or the use of violence to create peace in general, is an absurd fair story. I find it rather annoying that so many seem to believe something which is so absurd. I stand unconvinced of your position. As the system of policing now stands, fuck it, and by extension them, especially the schmuck in the vid, and anyone who enables him.


No one ever said a well trained police force needs to be violent, and I am not making an appeal of fear.
I think maybe your perspectives would radically shift were you to ever live in a society not governed by anyone and policed by none.

> ^MarineGunrock:
> I'd like you to cite ANYTHING that says police often do more harm than good.

I already sited my personal experience, not media reports or vids on the net. I have seen cops do some good, and I have seen them, with my own eyes, do lots of fucked up shit.

You mean to tell me that people everywhere would obey traffic signs and speed limits if there was no chance of them getting a speeding ticket - just out of their good nature?

I do, I fail to see the absurdity of being responsible. I can not tell you how many times I have had people ask me "you're an anarchist, why are you driving the speed limit?". The answer is simple I have not externalized my responsibility to some state-sanctioned father figure. I am able to deduce, with out much assistance, that driving a ton off steel down a tarmac byway at more then 10mph is fucking dangerous, and since everybody knows the posted rules, it's safest to abide by them, since being predictable in a dangerous situation is safer then the alternative.

I don't think so. Most people don't follow them anyway.

I would argue that is a consequence of punishment based "morals", which is sad, but hardly an argument in favor of the practice.

Who would you call when someone decided to rob your house or they smashed your car and drove off, because there were no police to show up and issue them a ticket?
You say "Fuck the police" now, but I guarantee you that your attitude would be radically different were you to ever need them.

I have had many things stolen, I have been assaulted a number of times (sometimes by cops) I can tell you that in none of the theoretical cases when cops are supposed to be of use have they been any better then an annoyance, and sometimes far worse. I have dealt with these thefts and assaults by myself, because their was nobody else who was going to do it, that will be true for probably about 98% of all victims of crime, because we don't have a cop stationed at every corner, and I'm glad for that fact.

I'm not saying that society has no place for people who professionally enforce the law, as long as those people obey the same law without exception. We don't have that in the US, and probably never will.

I am not moved by your appeal to fear, since your theoretical situations don't reflect my lived experience. The rationals for policing, or the use of violence to create peace in general, is an absurd fair story. I find it rather annoying that so many seem to believe something which is so absurd. I stand unconvinced of your position. As the system of policing now stands, fuck it, and by extension them, especially the schmuck in the vid, and anyone who enables him.

The Boeing's must have been tests. There are people out on the tarmac watching on one of them.

mmmmmmmmm Liquid Oxygen Roasted Squabb, served on a flat of NASA Tarmac!

Fuck a safety belt, stand and wait for the first crack to exit to tarmac....rather fall, drop, and splat, than have all the nerve endings scream in unison....

Nothing bad to say about good ol' Delta here...between the tenured flight attendant and the .04 cents an air mile, anywhere Delta flies in the world.....we bees, "shitting in tall cotton," as they say.....don't really care if the only place to sleep, is on the tarmac....fuck it. 8000 round trip air miles=$320 US.........!

Deano, if you look at the video while the wheel is down it is facing the wrong way, i.e. for a turn not for a landing. The pilots realized this, if they landed with a high speed on the front wheel it would catch the tarmac, break off and probably crash the entire plane.

So they landed on the rear tires first, and instead of bringing the nose down right after they let it coast while the plane lost speed, and brought the wheel down much later when the speed was less and wouldn't cause a catastrophic landing.

This is what simulator training teaches you.

I didn't mean to insult you. We have had a fair amount of opportunism going on at the site. People promoting their own videos, linking their websites etc.. etc.. Clearly i thought your write up was excellent and full of meaningfull content or i would not have linked it. It just seemed odd that 2 users would sign up to vote for just this post, and comment on just this post, and include in each comment a link to your site.

If I am wrong I offer you my heart felt apology, and ask you to understand that we have been forced to stay vigiliant on things like this because of an incredibly small percentage of users who have abused our system.

That said I wanted to leave the links up because I have no real evidence of wrong doing, and I do like the write up. The tarmac map in particular is sweet.