He refuses to talk about it, but he said he'll carve me a legendary statue with the story of it.

My 2 cents....
It might be, but that's not their position.

Religiously, as I read it, it's not much different from wearing a cotton poly blend or working on Sunday, also immoral according to the bible, but realistically the bible is just used as an excuse for them to attack things they don't like.
No American has been murdered or even ostracized by evangelicals for wearing blended fabrics or mowing on Sunday even though it's incontrovertible that the bible says they should be, but many have been murdered for being gay, and millions ostracized. Proof enough to me that it's not about what the bible says, that's just an excuse to attack what they hate or fear.

Compared to greed, the love of money, homosexuality seems barely mentioned, yet there's no outrage about the elevation of greed in our culture, it's celebrated.
Same for idolatry, forbidden by direct commandment from God not some interpreter, so if you've ever worshipped at a church with statues of any kind, including the cross or stained glass, God hates you far more than gays and demands we stone you to death.

Jews don't try to legally outlaw pork for everyone, not even other Jews. Christians have made homosexuality illegal for everyone, repeatedly.

Although there are (hopefully) no statues to Hitler in Germany, to be honest, there is an ongoing debate about remebrance of the Wehrmacht and its generals by the Bundeswehr.
There are still some Bundeswehr bases named after Wehrmacht generals who fought in WW2. And there was a recent report about Wehrmacht paraphenalia (a small part of them clearly praising the Nazi ideology) in Bundeswehr bases.

But the main point in the debate about confederate memorials is that taking down statues or flags does not automatically state that every last Confederate soldier was personally fighting to uphold slavery. What those statues commemorate is what the confederate army as a whole were fighting for.

I wonder how many of the people who marched in Charlottesville and supposedly protested for a more diversifeid view of the confederacy (you see, I am not talking about the KKK, people here but the "Not all of those people were Neo-Nazis"-People) have the same thoughts about islam?
How many of them say "I think most muslims are not terrorists", how dare you take down statues of their generals and leaders?".

If any of these people defending the statues think they are "preserving history", I would invite them to go to Germany and ask the locals why there are no statues of Hitler.

Bob, please, for God's sake, learn about your country.
Using your platform to peacefully express your personal politics...nothing could be more American or more pro-American values.
You are dissing the flag and the freedom it stands for by trying to infringe on their rights to speak and protest peacefully....but you stand up for murderous white supremacists and secessionists (true pure anti-Americans) who you believe should have immunity and the public's understanding because they're protesting statue removals.
Shameful, disgraceful...and ignorant.

Edit: Because I'm certain you don't know, the taking a knee thing was a suggestion from a Marine as a way to protest and show respect to the flag and servicemen. It's how they greet fallen soldiers. It's not anti flag, anti America, or anti soldier/police. That's all 100% misdirection being used to divide by those who benefit from division.

The statues are part of our history...the part where racist whites quickly erected statues to celebrate a racist past in response to civil rights movements..."to remind the darkies of their place" to quote a relative.

He seems totally ignorant of the fact that these are not new groups of racists....of course, admitting they've existed for over 150 years in some cases destroys his claims that the far left has created this monster, so he can't.

It's funny how he says the left's actions naturally created this grouping of hate, but can't apply the same logic when the hate groups actions create a climate where statues are removed....and removing the statues does not verify the fear behind shouting "Jew will not replace us".

Gave him 10 minutes...9 1/2 too long.

But, I didn't say they should go, I said/meant they should not be designed to celebrate and honor something shameful.

I think that Firefly quote stands for men without statues too. I think it's important to remember that there has never been a perfect human being, and it's good to try to never raise your estimation of a person up to the point where they must be said to be perfect to adequately describe the good in them....or so low you can't recognize the good things they've done.

.....Unless it's Jane.

@newtboy --

Yarr. I had a pretty long response typed up, and then accidentally clicked on a link and lost it.

So here's a short version:

I agree with you on pretty much everything, but "all statues and other monuments celebrating the insurrection should go" has some caveats for me.

Civic places like government buildings, city parks, etc.? Yeah, they should all go (including the State flags that incorporate the stars and bars). But museums (which you noted you are OK with), battlefields, and even a landmark or two like Stone Mountain I feel can be re-purposed so they aren't necessarily "celebrating the insurrection" so much as "reminding us of the evil that can exist in the hearts of men -- even men that some people respect".

Malcolm Reynolds in Firefly said "It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of him was one kind of sumbitch or another." Easier to remember that for Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee, and Stonewall Jackson, given that their roles in the Confederacy are pretty defining aspects of their legacies. But it remains true for some people like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and many other founding fathers that were also slave owners, even though we often conveniently forget that aspect of their history.


--EDIT--
Oh, by the way, I love that Malcolm Reynolds quote from Firefly, and there's a rather similar one made by the Hound in the (leaked) S07E06 episode of Game of Thrones:
"Every lord I've ever known has been a cunt. Don't see why the Lord of Light should be any different."

Not as relevant as the other one, but I liked it.

That's true. And only a racist would celebrate racists, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_who_owned_slaves

Time for Americans to do some real introspection. Slavery isn't acceptable because the founding fathers did it. Considering the Constitution and the Bill of Rights they penned, it seems all the worse that they could recognise the evil slavery was yet still profit from it (and they're not suddenly good people because they released some of their slaves, or released them after they died).

I think making sure history is well recorded and taught correctly is more important than tearing down a statue. If a statue or monument is left up then it needs to clearly state the history of the subject and how they were on the "wrong side of history".

I think it is possible to recognise the good and bad that an individual has done.

Sorry, but you missed the point imo. Confederates were NOT real Americans, they were real traitors to America who renounced their citizenship and fought to destroy the Union....largely to protect their rights to own people.

I'm not for whitewashing history, but I do think all statues and other monuments celebrating the insurrection should go...because I'm a patriot and would never celebrate our enemies.
Funny enough, Robert E Lee agreed there should be no monuments, he knew they breed hatred on both sides.

As an American, it is pretty easy to say they were wrong, and I'm from Houston and I'm actually related to Lee through two separate lines. That changes nothing. Treason is wrong, period.

PBS News Hour/NPR/Marist Poll after the Charlottesville incident.

Most Americans still want the statues standing.

the organizers of this disgrace are racists so you don't get to say oh I was just there to protest the taking down of statues; they are losers and they need to go and no it's not a slippery slope

Racism isn't seated in your bones...it's in your mind.
There is a racist mind in his body.
It's clear to everyone which side of this white power struggle he's on, there's no question at all. He is firmly in the camp of the people that believe reverse racism is a bigger problem than racism. He's in the camp of people who stand for preserving statues of traitors to the United States because they also stood for racism. He's in the camp of people who stand arm in arm with violent Nazis holding torches and shouting hate speech, but he calls them peaceful quiet protestors calmly preserving their heritage.
He doesn't seem to understand that racism comes in shades of gray, not black and white. You don't have to wish all black people were dead to be racist, believing they all have less self control, intelligence, and/or morals does the trick just fine.

We had this event in Germany last week. A group of activists showed up with a statue of Martin Luther that had some quotes of his printed on his cape. Result: activists got removed by the cops and charged with incitement.

Guess people don't like to be reminded that Luther's antisemitism in 1524 might very easily be mistaken for quotes by Hitler.

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