The gov't will always have varying degrees of "business" when it comes to things like this. And it will always change, because of varying interests. Private industry is largely responsible for why marijuana is illegal now. So you can't really treat gov't as this outside, independent authority, because it's going to respond according to enough voters or through lobbyists who are, effectively, us. Gov't is just caught in the middle between those various forces.

Shit changes though. Just look at cigarette smoking. Cigarettes used to be pretty harmless, until business got ahold of it and added all sorts of shit to it. Not only that, but it really wasn't that long ago that you pretty much had to smoke if you wanted to be socially accepted. Now the tables have turned. Smokers are pretty much shamed now. If you want to blame gov't for that, fine, but again, as I said before, we are the gov't. either through votes or through lobbyist influence.

You can look back at past gov't decisions and make judgements, sure, but that's hindsight. There's always going to be this dynamic of "Gov't should regulate X, but gov't shouldn't regulate Y" and every person has a funny way of evaluating such things and they don't always reflect reality, but some do.

But even when something is legalized like marijuana, there's always going to be some sort of regulation, like now, it's being regulated through taxation. Cigarette taxation is also a thing. A bartender acts like a regulator when they cut you off from drinking. Don't like it? don't drink there then.

Playing devil's advocate...
Even where it's legal, it's usually not legal to smoke in public. It's certainly not responsible to smoke in public where kids are nearby...or others that might be drug tested. You could be doing them great harm. (As a legal smoker, I think about these things). Also, if you're caught and go to jail, you won't be at work, that is direct harm to the company and why most have clauses in the employment contract that criminal activity at any time is grounds for termination.
Sleeping with a 'lady of the evening' is incredibly risky behavior...and illegal. Many people are harmed by STDs, not just the one that contracts them first. Many are easily spread by normal social behaviors, so having someone in the office with, say, a massive herpes outbreak who wipes their face then shakes hands/shares drinks/sneezes/etc is a real safety/health issue. Also, your company is harmed if you're caught and go to jail because you won't be at work.

To the religion example, there's little to be done if people lie and cheat to get around the agreed on rules....but I'll go out on a limb and say that it's wrong, and they'll all burn in hell forever for bearing false witness. ;-)

Slavoj has more experience with oppressive regimes. Effective oppressive regimes let "ordinary people" do most of the oppressing. Much more zealous than any government agency can be. For any "good citizen" it is enough to know what the party line is and that one must not deviate.

Perhaps vaping sections on aeroplanes (I hate people vaping in my vicinity) or semi-secret performances of smoking operas (for people who like those) would make the world less oppressive for some people without sacrificing too much selfrighteous ego. Perhaps the selfrighteous ego is just too strong.

A ban on smoking in pubs has just been passed over here. Again, I am fine with that in the pubs I go to, however there are pubs in small villages out in the country where only smokers ever go and all they do is drink and smoke. Will they have to meet elsewhere, rename the pub to a "smoking club" or just become underground smokers against the establishment?

My favourite Yugoslav joke is BTW Q: What is the national record for the 100 meter sprint in Montenegro?

A: 80 metres.

insane, back when I was in highschool there was no cops/guards/etc

We even had a smoking section, and guns could be brought on campus.

For smoking section you just needed a letter from parents that they knew you smoked. and on recess the smokers all hung out there.

To bring gun to school, it was during any hunting season. You had to have note from parents that they know. The gun had to be visible, either gun rack in back window of truck or in passenger seat. Rifles and Shotguns only no pistols.

You had to have your Hunter's Safety Course card, Your Hunting License both on you to give copies at office.

You had to leave your vehicle keys with the front office and submit to random vehicle search of the hunter's vehicles only.

So while everyone could go to their cars at recess, or if you had extra empty elective, some of us juniors would drive up to Hardees before lunch and grab fast food then be back before 4th period started, but the hunters had to leave their keys with front office and they could not retrieve them until end of school.

So much more freedom.

Smoking was banned on campus for students only my 10th grade year, but Teachers had the smoking lounge in building. There was a teacher's lounge on each hall, the back hall F where weight lifting, welding, home ec, and vocational classes were was where the teacher's smoking lounge was. Most students friendly with teachers could sneak in there and smoke anyhow.

crazy times.

I had a 84 Camaro and kept a flare gun under seat my dad owned a boat and had couple extra flare guns. So I had that for some crazy reason thinking if someone attacked me, at point blank range I'd put on a huge firework show


Then there was the stereotypes that were proven right not wrong.

The jocks hung out together, the headbangers/smokers hung out together, the nerds, the band folks like me as my senior year I was drum major
and the blacks stayed together all in separate cliques at lunch and recess and before/after school.

stereotypes even went further.

the only highschool girls with babies (during time I was there I stress) were black girls, they had to build a daycare from the old mechanic shop behind the highschool for them. And even though this was the early 90s in the south, you'd hear over the Intercom every 6 months "All Black female students to gym at this time please" where they'd get lectured on abstinence, or condom use, and std's and such.

the only time rest of the student body went through that was in 10th grade they'd take the boys one day, and girls the next day.

We had a blast though as the guys, the protection/std talk was given by one of the football coaches, and during the talk with the guys and showing various "shock images" of std's on penis on the TV, when he got to the "sex ed" portion, he flipped in a Nina Hartley porn intro where a nude Nina Hartley showed the correct way to place a condom on. haha was hilarious looking back before "political correctness" went out of control.

I loved highschool and college.

Graduated high school in 94, got associates in 96, took year off then got bachelors in computer science in 99.

But 89-94 (our highschool here in the deep south is 8th through 12th) most are 9-12, but not here. It's still 8-12th here. So it's nothing seeing 12th graders dating 8th graders. Freaky yea, but not unusual.


If you got into a fight, if a coach was around he'd let the fight finish, unless it got a bit too over the top then they'd break it up. You didn't get suspended, you lost recess privileges usually 3 days plus the starter of the fight got 10 licks of the paddle in principle office, the other only got 1 to 3, or if person was just dominated and got ass kicked you just got detention.


Kids didn't act up at all most times. And the reason was Corporal Punishment. Not private paddling either.


Once I was having a bad day, me and "highschool" sweetheart were having a bit of a spat. We sat next to each other so we were bickering a bit during class. Teacher had yelled at me to shut up and do the work. I sighed "Leave me the fuck alone"

bad move.

She called me to front of class and I got 5 licks of paddle in front of everyone. They'd stick finger in your belt loop and yank it up tight to put that extra sting on it. Embarrassing as hell! Even female older teachers who didn't paddle hard, it was just too embarrassing to get paddled, so kids behaved.


And of course if you refused paddling which you could but you'd take a zero for the day's work. few of those in a semester and no matter how hard you worked you were flunking that semester.


But the system worked.

It wasn't until they went crazy insane on political correctness, stopping corporal punishment, and putting cops/rent a cops/guards in schools and after the No Child Left Behind was signed into law, they severely dumbed down kids forcing the smartest to learn at the slowest kids pace. Doc's prescribing SSRI's like candy to kids in MASSIVE quantities, that schools in today's culture are crazy.

I think there is a some truth to it being a gateway drug. But not in the sense that most people think of it. The reason I consider it a gateway drug is because once you start buying weed, you've begun to contact criminals and buy stuff from them. It makes it that much easier to now go a step further. You have the contacts, and you have already mentally accepted breaking the law. If you bought dope at the corner store like beer, the dope smoker would be no closer to harder drugs than the average teenager that buys beer.

However, to say that dope is a gateway drug on account of it's effects on the user makes no more sense than the same argument for alcohol.

If I were a smoker I'd definitely make my own because the industry has so little regulation, you have no real way to know what chemicals you are getting that may cause even more harm than a cigarette. As an example some brands have been shown to release more formaldehyde and other dangerous carcinogens at significantly higher rates than a regular cigarette.

E-cigs can definitely be used to help quit, but the opposite is also true. I see more teens than ever smoking e-cigs who wouldn't have otherwise smoked cigarettes because they don't ruin your teeth, your sense of taste, your breath, you don't have the smell of cigarettes on you. Those are teens that wouldn't have been addicted to smoking otherwise and now are, even if that addiction is less severe.

As an example, my step-nephew (18) for example and his father both use e-cigs and have for the last year or two as they've gained popularity. His father has since quit after much reduced smoking but the nephew goes through multiple flavored bottles a week. He never puts his down.

Really? Where is that info found? I've never heard that.

The slow lowering of nicotine sounds like something that could help you give it up while still getting to hit it.

Anyone know of studies that show that its easier or that smokers are quitting at a higher rate due to vaping?

Because nicotine itself is not terribly addictive. The main components of addiction to tobacco are now believed to be other substances.

Now consider the mechanical act of smoking; inhale, exhale cloud, reward.
Using a vaporizer reproduces the physical act that smoker's brains associate with the reward.

There does seem to be a period at the beginning of using a vaporizer, where there's a craving for cigarettes, perhaps because of the other addictive chemicals that are absent. But this craving isn't particularly difficult to overcome when you're satisfying the other elements of your habit. Not to mention, lungs clearing, sense of taste returning...

Then there's the final stage of using a vaporizer, which I've seen happen with others and I've experienced...you lower the nicotine levels further and further and then one day you start forgetting to use it at all. Your frequency of use may drop to nothing. Not always though. Some people go truely insane. We call them "scuba vapers". One of my buddies has earned the nickname "Darth Vaper".

The bit where the launcher connects to the head breaks fairly quickly which leaves you with a working head but no way to propel it.

It's a cheap toy that is available in junk shops like The Reject Shop (in Australia at least), made in China of course. Seems to entertain the kids and drug smokers of course. ; )

But who controls the thought police, cock smoker?

(P.S. I just like sounding like comic book and movie villains. Nothing personal. Today I'm a violent 1980s cyber punk hoodlum with an orange mohawk and jordie leforge goggles. Slice and dice!)

Oh wow. That's awesome.
I gave up on bees after my last hive collapsed, I got foulbrood. That means burning all your hive(s) so you don't re-infect other bees. My bad back means it was getting harder and harder to split the hives and harvest, they're heavy when full of honey and bees so I didn't replace them. This way I could leave them together, never lift anything, and still get honey!
They aren't cheap though. I put my old hives together for about $100 each, $600 is quite a jump for convenience.
I harvested mine with a hot butter knife (no expensive heated electric knife) a cookie sheet, and gravity, so I never had the $4-600 expense of a centrifuge or other harvesting equipment, and never missed a drop. Still, just turning a tap sounds so simple and easy. I still have my suit and smoker, it would be nice to use them and have pollinators for my orchard, but the $.... Decisions decisions.

The December shipping is just right IMO. That gives you time to paint and set them up before spring, the only time of year you can buy bees.

Maybe there were some infuential Swedish linguists who were also smokers? Or yoga practicioners?

@lucky760
um...what?
inmates are wild animals?

i guess i could get on board with your opinion if the parameters were exclusively directed toward extremely violent psycho/sociopaths.

otherwise your comment makes no sense.
2.4 million inmates in american prisons.the majority for non-violent offenses (think pot smokers),70% are non-white and to singularly lump them all as somehow being "wild animals" unworthy of participating in normal society,reveals a serious lack of understanding.

the american penal system dehumanizes and has zippo to do with rehabilitation OR corrections.
which is why i referenced the milgram experiment.

treat someone with humanity,even if they are paying a debt to society,and the results will always be a better outcome than what we do to prisoners here in the states.

the american penal system is a racket,a business.it commodifies the poor and those not deemed "of value" and its a travesty.something we should all be ashamed of,not celebrating.

Yeah, I've seen references like this. It's crap. A quick Google search turned up articles where fat people were motivated to lose their weight because of fat shaming. There was a recent article in our local paper that made a similar point. You can always find a study to support your view. I prefer the evidence of my own eyes.
Obesity has soared in one generation because we now refer to fat women as BBW. Manufacturers of planes and cars, clothing are now designing for heavier people.
Acceptance of fat has led to the current crisis (and I do acknowledge the role of the fast food industry which I compare to the tobacco industry).
Remember how cigarette smoking was once seen as glamourous? Not any more... it was re-branded as a disgusting vice that took its toll on your health, your looks, your breath and people (like me) dropped the habit so that in one generation it's the exception rather than the rule.
Sure, there are hardcore smokers who will never be cured. And some fat people are always going to stay fat rather than develop some willpower. But it should never be accepted or promoted somehow.