If people dishonestly try to claim the secession of the traitorous confederacy wasn't based on slavery, remind them of what it's founders and leaders said about it at the time.

"Our new government foundations are laid, it's cornerstones rest, on the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery - subordination to the superior race- is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based on this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
-confederate vice president Alexander H. Stephens cornerstone speech explaining the basis of the confederacy

Apu : Actually, there were numerous causes. Aside from the obvious schism between the abolitionists and the anti-abolitionists, there were economic factors, both domestic and inter...

Examiner : Wait, wait... just say slavery.

Apu : Slavery it is, sir.

So was murder, and rape, so I'm coming over to murder you, put your children into slavery, and your wife too if she survives my whole tribe raping her. What, can't get over the past? It's the norm since Jesus, until the 1800's at least...but you just gave me permission to ignore any civil progression. Thanks, I can use some white slaves and a whore.
Dumbass, the constitution allowed slavery, and actually so did Lincoln, he offered to allow states to decide themselves if they just paid their taxes.
South said no dice, and went with treason. They much preferred being traitors to admitting blacks were human beings.

When you start with nothing (not the >$400000000 "nothing" Trump was handed), are denied opportunities, loans, housing (by Trump and pops in many cases) businesses, and in places where you're successful anyway like Tulsa, you get massacred, you're left with little chance for personal or cultural financial progress. Derp.
When you then, having scratched out a living despite the dozen daily roadblocks whites don't have, must compete with those who were handed $400000000 but claim to be self made and also don't have roadblocks like loan refusal, rental refusal, job refusal, purchasing refusal, near daily delays and attacks by racist police, business burnings, etc, that's not the past holding you back, it's the present.

The countries where it's local have mostly white police forces that are also racist against black and brown people, and even so are mostly protesting America's massive systemic racism, holding George Floyd signs and slogans. You know that, you aren't 3....or are you?

Never heard of colonialism I guess. Well, that's not surprising. See, white Europeans took over most brown or black countries, racistly claiming they couldn't govern themselves because they weren't fully human. That was a global racist endeavor.

You are such a stupid, racist tool. You should be forced to live in rural S Africa and learn what racism is before opening your ignorant mouth and spouting stupidity. You really have no clue what you're talking about, as usual.

You make me so sad and worried for humanity if we have your ilk dragging us down and backwards.

You don't have anything because you haven't tried to get over the past.

Slavery was the norm since Jesus.
The Constitution gave a path to end it.

When you have a chip that big on your shoulder.
When you don't have a father in your family.
When you blame others for your blight.
You are left with little chance of personal financial progress.



What I find odd is that the BLM movement is Global. Since this is indeed Global then this is not an White racist America problem, nor European racist issue. The whole white globe can't be at fault for the blight of the black. So the true question is What is the Black doing to better themselves? Or are they just screaming poor little ole me? Or is the truth really is that blacks are fucked over just as much as everyone else but used as political pawns. Since a black can achieve / become whatever they want in life, I think the latter is the correct answer.

1) I question your sources, because some of the earliest writings ever found were business ledgers dealing with selling grains as I understand it. Capitalism has been a thing since before writing was a thing.

2) um...I think those kids in China would dispute that....THEY made the Iphones, which created a smart phone market by being useful and fun (for most people).

3) do you believe capitalism and the industrial revolution started at the same time, or that capitalism has something to do with surfs, civil rights, or secularism? Capitalism applied to people is indentured servitude, what we lazily call slavery. Unfettered capitalism created a situation where civil rights needed to be delineated and codified, it didn't create them any more than wildfires created firemen imo.

Some people do educate themselves before acting or making purchases, but it's not the norm.

Capitalism says your poor neighbors should die, because capitalism says there is no value to human life...I did a term paper on that. Value is derived from a supply/demand equation, and there's such a glut of humanity that human life has a negative value.

The government paid for around 75% of the technology development. "...it paid for some of the technology...." is incredibly misleading, if technically correct (the best kind of correct). Without a healthy dose of socialism, progress slows to a crawl and only the privileged few can afford it.

1 word....flip-phones. ;-) (I don't even have one of those)

Capitalism (or the slow demise of feudalism, serfdom, slavery, bigotry and the middle ages in general) made science and progress possible.

It is a common misconception that rights and freedoms are useful in their own right. Its really up to individual people what they do with what they get.

Socialism is a step back because it tries to tell you what you should and should not do, thus limiting your freedoms and possible progress. There should always only be as much socialism as is morally acceptable.

Anybody else remember the faux outrage over the ridiculous claims that Democrats were human traffickers and baby sellers, culminating in an armed attack on the pizza restaurant that was supposed to be the headquarters of the child slavery ring?
I member.
Odd the same outraged morons are silent now, when there are actual victims and charges levied and not just paranoid delusions.

Sorry.

I'm calling him pathetic because he gave two pro choice arguments believing they are anti choice arguments.

I don't believe a thing that breaths liquid is a human being. A child, imo, must have taken a breath to be a living human child. Until then, it's only a potential human requiring an actual human to be it's life support system and sustenance. That's worse than any other form of slavery.

I'm so pro choice, I support 7th trimester abortions, like Spartans. In ancient Greece, it wasn't a human until it was a year old, and killing it wasn't murder until then.

At 6 weeks, it's indistinguishable from a chicken or newt, so not a human. It must evolve completely before I grant it that status. Until live birth, it's just a parasite.

Reality is scarier than any book, TV, or movie.

And no one stands up or does anything about it!
All due respect, but the US has become the biggest cesspool of abuse and slavery in the world. The Government uses the people and controls them. The leaders treat everyone as tools to suck wealth out of and then dispose of them when they see fit.

I'm saddened by this incredible system of control, human right's abuses, and degradation of an entire society, for the profits of the 1% -- and no one in the US will stand up for themselves - in fact, people are so brain washed, that they stand up and defend the systems of abuse that keep them confines and abused.

So, the argument is two fold.
One, this issue of personal freedom/choice is important enough that it can't be left to states who might eliminate individual choice in favor of a state's choice. This is the liberal position on this issue, that states will take the choice away from individual woman in favor of the choice made for them, usually by groups of old men. That's why Roe V Wade is essential, it denies the states the right to enslave women to their unwanted, potential, in some cases forced upon them, offspring.

Second, he argued we can't allow laws that take away the freedom of individuals to choose, which slavery did...as do anti abortion laws. You cannot crush the choices of another person....this includes the choice to not be an incubator for another "person" (to misuse the word, assuming they're incorrectly insisting a blastocyst or foetus is a person, all medical and scientific evidence notwithstanding). The "developing life" (doesn't realize he just blew the "life starts at conception" argument with that phrase) cannot take away the rights of the womb's owner, cannot make them a slave to the blastocyst/foetus. The right to life argument fails when you realize no person is forced to donate blood or organs, which people need to live. Real right to life would extend beyond birth and require people become medical slaves to those who need them or their parts.

If it can live without help, fine, develop an abortive processes that allows that at any point in pregnancy, fund it across the board, and start the debate again. Until then, this dumbass just made two arguments for pro choice.
Pathetic.

Perhaps you are ignorant of the fact that the vast majority cross where walls already exist. To answer your question, nearly all of them would still try. Do you really think a fence is deterrence when the alternative is go home and see your family raped to death before you're decapitated? Would you just say "oops, sorry, didn't mean to trigger you....let me just take my daughter back to the narcos for a life of sex slavery and just die then, so sorry."?

A better immigration policy that makes it easier to get a work visa or asylum at ports of entry instead of making illegal entry easier, simpler, cheaper, and faster would discourage people from taking the easier, but illegal path. We are moving the other direction, which is why illegal immigration is on the rise under Trump after falling steadily for decades.

This doesn't cost America except for fighting it, they make us money with cheap labor, taxation without representation or access to government assistance, and by lowering the per capita crime rates by being far less criminal on average than Americans. You want to deport a group that's well above average in criminality, that would be Republican politicians and or Trump associates...no one will miss a single one.

A $50 billion wall (Trump's never built anything that wasn't at least 100% over budget) that can be evaded with a ladder, shovel, car, truck, saw, torch, boat, plane, and in many many places, absolutely nothing (it's no longer a single solid wall from coast to gulf, it's now a fence in a few more places for your $50 billion.) is not just vastly more expensive, it's also uselessly wasting that money for almost zero return, the few places it might help will just see the migrant paths move a few miles over.

If we had a 40+ ft high, 20 ft deep, 4+ft thick reinforced concrete wall coast to coast that was somehow ladder proof, it still wouldn't stop most illegal immigration or drug trafficking, because the vast majority of both come through ports of entry. The wall is a useless solution to a non existent problem that's been solving itself for decades....side note: what do you think it was like in the good old days when America was "great"? Contrary to Chump's claims, operation wetback (that he wants to reimplement) was a failure....
https://www.cato.org/blog/enforcement-didnt-end-unlawful-immigration-1950s-more-visas-did

It amazes me that people faced the business end of these devices to avoid paying taxes to England and to keep slavery going in the south.

I'm an atheist and will always be one of the first in line to suggest that religions should be subject to criticism and the rule of law just like any other organization.

That being said, I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that congregations are complicit in the misdeeds of the institution itself, whether or not they are aware of verified instances of misdeeds. ...Pretty slippery slope.

Expand that to, say, nations. In the history of the US, the government has committed some pretty indefensible atrocities. Genocide, mass relocation, and other offenses against Native Americans in the name of "manifest destiny". Enslavement of a race of people based on skin color, with disenfranchisement and continued abuse well after slavery was abolished, with elements that certainly persist to this day. Funding and supplying extremist organizations because they happen to have a short-term enemy that coincides with ours, which frequently comes back to bite us in the ass later. Using underhanded tricks including false-flag operations to justify wars and other offensive actions. Attempting to assassinate democratically elected leaders of foreign governments. And on and on.

Are all US citizens complicit in those misdeeds, merely by an accident of birth? But those things were in the past, you might argue. Given the depth of dirt you can find on our past with a little digging, I'd say it is reasonable to expect that there's things that the government is doing now that we may or may not be aware of that would be similarly difficult to defend.

Many/most Catholics can either remain intentionally blissfully ignorant about these problems, or will be able to go to great lengths to rationalize their way around them. Just like most US citizens don't lose much sleep over our government's past and present misdeeds. In either case, indoctrination puts the blinders on -- and can be incredibly difficult to escape.

For the religious, "love the sinner, hate the sin" is an oft-repeated phrase. As an atheist outraged by these scandals and the decades/centuries of intentional cover-ups by the Church itself, I might be tempted to turn that on its head. "Accept the religious, hate the religion." By all means, be outraged towards the institution itself. By all means, fight to end the protections that have allowed this kind of abuse to go unchecked. But perhaps try to keep some (Christian?) empathy for the average Catholic congregation members who have been brainwashedindoctrinated their whole lives and are likely in too deep to escape. Reserve that hatred for the clergy that abused their positions of power and control to commit these crimes, and the organizational system that systematically allowed it to happen while covering it up. They deserve every bit of hate you throw their way.

Bob, I'll try to ignore your having just being an ignorant douchbag who rudely dismissed those with far more knowledge and personal experience than you possess, simply because they disagreed with your non- medically based, non-scientific based, thoughtless, inhumane political position and I'll try a different tact.....

How is it that, in 2018, you are advocating slavery more foul than the African slave trade....yes, slavery.

Forcing one person to fulfill all the bodily functions of another, brain dead potential "person" (and make no mistake, a blastocyst is not a person, but for sake of argument and your limited understanding capabilities I'll let you claim it is one this one time)....that's Mengele level inhumanity and slavery.

You claim to believe in individual liberties over vague social responsibility....except when you don't.

Forcing one person to physically support another is so far to the left of full socialism you seem to think it went all the way around to the right. It doesn't work that way.
To add the typical right wing slippery slope argument, if the government can force one person to be life support for another potential person, they can force healthy people to give up organs to the unhealthy, or be consigned to hospitals to be used as human dialysis and so forth.
Until those cells can and have survived on their own without support, and can and have functioned as a mammal (meaning breathed, circulated body fluids, and consumed and evacuated foodstuffs) they have not reached "living human" status, and even if you can't grasp that fact, at no point can there be a requirement that another person acts as their sentient intensive care unit without reinstating legal slavery.

Why do you advocate slavery?

When are you donating your kidney and partial liver, and your children's? If you aren't, by your logic you're at least a double murderer and so are they. Why should I or anyone take morality advice from a double murderer?

Design a procedure where the offending not yet human can be safely removed without any (or at least less than an abortion would cause) risk to the mother, but survive on it's own without an incubator-slave, then come back and we'll talk.... until then forced incubation and forced birth is monstrously draconian socialism of a kind even Mengele would turn away from in disgust.

Edit: I came up with an argument I think might change your mind....how many baby Newtboys would you force on the planet before you decided abortion should be mandatory in some cases?

Wow Bob. Sounds like your family had it much worse than them black folks!

Not everybody reaped the benefits of post-depression America buddy, and it wasn't for lack of trying. Not that I want to rob you of you and your family's accomplishments because I'm sure they worked hard for their lot, it's just that the sweat of your GGrandfather's brow probably earned more, drop for drop, than those of darker complexion. Slavery (ignoring the fact it still exists in every country today) might be old news, but segregation (and worse) is within living memory. If you don't think that matters then I'm sorry, but you're nuts. You seem to accept that each generation tries to build upon the last, that by increments your family have dragged themselves up...but imagine now if your ancestors were prevented from building anything, that their increment was robbed for generation after generation. Can you honestly say you'd be where you are today?