>> ^cosmovitelli:

I read your stuff Yogi!
FWIW Involving the US in Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan is all about money and power. Oil, minerals, rate earth shit etc etc.
In Iran they got rid of a benevolent democratically elected progressive who tried to return the oil wealth of the country to its people and replaced him with a foreign sponsored greedy foolish puppet.
When it swung back the other way the clerics took over. Doh!
They used Afghanistan as a proxy war with the soviets, training the mujahideen / aka Taliban fighters in improvised explosives, insurgency warfare and basically how to fuck up a mechanised invading army. Then they invaded. Doh!
In Iraq they supported Saddam despite his demented paranoid savagery until the Iraqi oilfields became too tasty to ignore.
Duck Cheney said it couldn't be done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I&sns=em
But they upped his end via massive Haliburton projects and installed a puppet moron to keep blaming Iraq for the Saudi attacks on 9/11.
Then they invaded, killing thousands of civilians, and dismantled the police and social services while fucking up the food and water supply. Just for good measure they disbanded the army and sent 375,000 heavily armed young men off to find food for their own families. Doh!
Never mind about panama, chile, Vietnam, Cuba, Russia, Pakistan etc etc.


I'd pretty much agree with your facts. I'm a little less sure on your point.

America helped train and support the Islamic fighter in Afghanistan to chase out the Soviets. America supported Saddam while he was using chemical weapons against Iran and even Iraqi Kurds. America propped up a strong man of their choosing in Iran which backfired and led to the current theocracy.

You needn't look far or very hard to find examples where almost any and every nation has selfishly done very bad things, or things with terrible consequences. America, Russia and China being such large nations, the examples for them are much bigger and numerous. It makes for great propaganda, and all 3 continually make heavy use of it to tarnish each other. America is characterized by the genocide of native americans and Vietnam, Russia by Stalin and China by Mao. It's great propaganda, but it's not insightful or helpful analysis.

Pretend you get be President when Bush Jr. was president. America's narrow self interests are being threatened by terrorism. Bin Laden has extremely close ties with Islamists not only in Afghanistan, but throughout nuclear armed Pakistan. AQ Khan, the father of Pakistan's nuclear program, is going around selling nuclear secrets and equipment to the highest bidder. That's an uncomfortably short path from Pakistan's nuclear arsenal to the hands of a very credible terrorist network. Do you demand Pakistan break it's ties with the Taliban, or just let it slide? Do you demand the Afghan Taliban break ties with Al Qaeda, or just let it slide? I think selfish American interest DID dictate making those two demands, and being willing to launch a war if they were refused.

I think that is a strong argument that the Afghan war was indeed a good thing from the perspective of America's narrow self-interest.

What about the Afghan people though? Their self interest depends on what the end game is, and nobody can predict that. What we DO know is that the formerly ruling Taliban hated women's rights, and we fought against them. What we DO know is that the formerly ruling Taliban burnt off more of Afghanistan's vineyards than even the Russians had, because making wine was anathema to their cult. What we DO know is that the Taliban was one of the most brutal, backwards and hateful organizations around.

I can not say that the Afghan war ensured a better future for Afghanistan's people. What I CAN say is that leaving the Taliban in power in Afghanistan ensured a dark, bleak and miserable future for Afghanistan's people. I would modestly propose that a chance at something better was a good thing.

>> ^lantern53:

Name the system you will start over with.
Also, capitalism and socialism are incompatible with each other. Capitalism means I work for myself, for my own self-interest.
Socialism means you work for the next guy. Why should I work for the next guy? When I've made my nest, and there is some left over, I choose to whom it goes....not the gov't.


Well, a mix of many is better than to choose any extreme.

Capitalism and socialism are incompatible? Where did you learn that? Fox News?
If that was the case countries like Germany wouldnt have existed the way they are. And funnily, Germany right now is the backbone of Europe in this crisis. I ask you again, how can a small country like that using so many parts of socialism be financially that strong? Because capitalism and socialism dont work together, huh?

Name the system you will start over with.

Also, capitalism and socialism are incompatible with each other. Capitalism means I work for myself, for my own self-interest.

Socialism means you work for the next guy. Why should I work for the next guy? When I've made my nest, and there is some left over, I choose to whom it goes....not the gov't.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Nice write-up. Although I think it's great that Louie is skipping the middle-man, my worry is that this approach doesn't scale.

Imagine if the top 30 comedy headliners all did this on their own websites. The novelty is gone and the content does not get the adoring press on sites like ours. Having to track down individual websites and go through their registration process is not really hard, but probably too much to ask the lazy invisible hand of self-interested consumers.

When that happens you have to think about aggregating that content, marketing plans, promotion and then ... you're back in the same boat with needing a distribution engine and lots of middle men.

On justifying torrenting, Daring Fireball pulled out a great quote from that Louie AMA on Reddit:

To steal from someone and not feel bad, you either have to be a sociopath or view the act differently. One way is to remove “Someone” from the equation. You’re not stealing from a person. Big companies do a lot to help people view them as less than human. I heard a speech by Noam Chomsky who said that corporations are like super humans. They cannot be hurt like a human can and they never die. They are not susceptible to scrutiny or accountability. This makes them more profitable. If companies want to enjoy these benefits to some degree they have to live with what else comes with being not human. You miss out on compassion, forgiveness, camaraderie, empathy, trust all kinds of shit.

Reread what you wrote. You said: I'd say 'let them be dumb', not: I'd be willing to take action against Arizona.

Sincerely, I guess I am assuming you are white (which you admit you are) because I don't know why any American minority who is really subject to discrimination by private businesses would support repeal of laws that protect from said discrimination. It would seem to profoundly go against your self interest. From my experience, white Americans are less sensitive and less aware of such discrimination.

So, are you saying you have experienced overt discrimination by a private business based on your perceived race/ethnicity? If so, can you explain why you would support Ron Paul's position that would repeal laws that outlaw private businesses from discriminating against racial, ethnic, religious and other protected groups?

>> ^wax66:

>> ^longde:

You're willing to let Arizona stew in their mess because it doesn't affect you. If you were a latino in Arizona, you'd feel differently.

Again, you're ass-uming. I never said I'd be willing to let Arizona stew in its own mess. In fact, I'd be willing to take action against Arizona, especially if I was a resident. If I was a Latino in Arizona, I'd feel no differently, I'd STILL be willing to take action against the law. The beauty of America is that we CAN do that. In addition, if you re-read what I said, I said we don't need to ('let them be dumb'), which MEANS that we fight against it. If it's against federal law, the law will get invalidated!

Not to mention the fact that I not only grew up in a predominantly Latino area (there was a small handful of Caucasians at my school), but I LOOK Latino myself, and have been mistaken for one many times.
But go ahead and keep ass-uming.

Like most libertarians RP has a completely incoherent understanding of human nature. He seems to think there is this magical line between laisse-faire live and let live and self interest. People do let others do what they want so long as it doesnt affect them. Unfortunately they think that offence means harm so they take measures to address this perceived harm.

>> ^criticalthud:

we're not special. that's part of the legacy of lies of religion. (we're all god's flowers, lamb of god, god is with you, god's chosen, god looks like us, the planet is OUR domain). self-entitled bullshit. that is not reality.
consumerism also sells to the "specialness".
one of the major problems with the psyche of our species is that we're so focused on pursuing our own special self interests to the detriment of the planet and everyone else. consumerism or religion to the individual isn't a big deal. for the collective it is destroying the planet.
shit i'm starting to sound like a broken record.
but evolution of the species means evolution of the consciousness.
bolivia gets it right:
http://www.pvpulse.com/en/news/world-news/bolivia-set-to-pass-historic-law-of-mother-earth-which-will-grant-nature-equal-rights-to-humans#star
tOfPageI
d776
we are just another species.
i would even go so far to argue that on the whole, we are not an intelligent species. we possess intelligence, and there are those in our species who could be considered intelligent, but most of us just repeat patterns and emotion rules our decisions rather than cognition. Around 80% of humans are virtual automatons.
we celebrate competition and division and feed that to our young, while it is without question that cooperation is how an intelligent species flourishes.
before guilt and shame and expectations that you cannot possibly meet fuck up your life, religion has to first establish that you are something more than a primate, another piece in the collective. it has to first prey upon your ego, your fears, and your self interests. it is an element of control.
Consumerism, before selling you piles of crap, must first convince you that you need to buy that shit, that you deserve it, that you are entitled to it, and that by accumulating more shit to the self, you will fulfill your dreams and your happiness.


Very well said, also the information on Bolivia is really great news, lets hope America doesn't send in troops/arrange assassinations to reverse this fantastic effort.

every nation acts in what it perceives to be its own self interest... it's a given

i think it's impossible to give an example of american intervention that has 'turned out well'... well, because it's impossible to say how it would have turned out without said intervention... and history never stops

maybe at some point in the far future, after we've all destroyed ourselves, some alien race will arrive and piece together the entire history of humanity

at that point, perhaps, they'll be able to gauge right and wrong definitively... but i doubt it -- moot point for us anyway

alien #1: "wow, those humans were messed up! why didn't they listen to ron paul?"
alien #2: "well, at least their wiping themselves out did subsequently allow the tadpole-squirrel race to evolve in peace on this planet..."
alien #1: "yeah! grytzlaak the great of the tadpole-squirrel people did go on to bring ultimate equilibrium to the entire universe!"
alien #2: "yup! i love you, dude..."

do competing ideologies cause suffering? absolutely

would a single, global ideology alleviate suffering? maybe, but what a boring world we'd live in

You're a funny guy Mr Pennypacker
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

[...]
But American Exceptionalism is not jingoism or arrogance. It is a quick way to summarize the American spirit of enlightened self-interest combined with personal freedom and entrepreneurism. The liberal left hates to admit it, but the US Constitution, economy, and position in the world was no accident of chance or random luck. Our constitution was a model to the rest of the world. Our freedoms and way of life still make us the envy of just about everyone. People still want to come here in droves to escape oppression, poverty, and intolerance. America was innovating, inventing, testing, and producing when the rest of the Western world was literally standing still. This is not arrogance or snootiness. It is just fact. American Exceptionalism summarizes this - and apparently makes Proglibdyte leftists squeal like stuck pigs when they hear the words.

Where in there was a justification for global empire? We aren't debating words "the left hates." We're debating why we were attacked by a handful of radical folks. Further we're debating whether or not our military engagement, specifically since WWII, has been productive in any measurable way. Can you provide some examples?

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

The only reason the Proglibdyte left is such a fan of Ron Paul is because he is a non-interventionist. The liberal left's vision of the ideal world is the United States giving all its cash - no questions asked - to the United Nations. At that point the US is supposed to sit down, shut up, and do whatever the UN orders them to do. Then - in the minds of the left - we will have world peace. RP would do about 90% of that by just being an isolationist. He won't give the UN any money, but the left will settle for the US just shutting down all its involvement (especially military).
But American Exceptionalism is not jingoism or arrogance. It is a quick way to summarize the American spirit of enlightened self-interest combined with personal freedom and entrepreneurism. The liberal left hates to admit it, but the US Constitution, economy, and position in the world was no accident of chance or random luck. Our constitution was a model to the rest of the world. Our freedoms and way of life still make us the envy of just about everyone. People still want to come here in droves to escape oppression, poverty, and intolerance. America was innovating, inventing, testing, and producing when the rest of the Western world was literally standing still. This is not arrogance or snootiness. It is just fact. American Exceptionalism summarizes this - and apparently makes Proglibdyte leftists squeal like stuck pigs when they hear the words.

The only reason the Proglibdyte left is such a fan of Ron Paul is because he is a non-interventionist. The liberal left's vision of the ideal world is the United States giving all its cash - no questions asked - to the United Nations. At that point the US is supposed to sit down, shut up, and do whatever the UN orders them to do. Then - in the minds of the left - we will have world peace. RP would do about 90% of that by just being an isolationist. He won't give the UN any money, but the left will settle for the US just shutting down all its involvement (especially military).

But American Exceptionalism is not jingoism or arrogance. It is a quick way to summarize the American spirit of enlightened self-interest combined with personal freedom and entrepreneurism. The liberal left hates to admit it, but the US Constitution, economy, and position in the world was no accident of chance or random luck. Our constitution was a model to the rest of the world. Our freedoms and way of life still make us the envy of just about everyone. People still want to come here in droves to escape oppression, poverty, and intolerance. America was innovating, inventing, testing, and producing when the rest of the Western world was literally standing still. This is not arrogance or snootiness. It is just fact. American Exceptionalism summarizes this - and apparently makes Proglibdyte leftists squeal like stuck pigs when they hear the words.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Yep, gotta agree with this. "American exceptionalism" is really jingoism. The Chinese believe in Chinese Exceptionalism just as much - and it's just as ugly and misguided. I'll be glad with nationalism fades away. >> ^kymbos:

Sure, but to take that on face value you must believe there's something genuinely special about America's 'freedom'. That's the hubris. Every country calls itself the best on Earth - most other countries understand they're not that 'special'. America's been calling itself special for so long its people actually believe it.
America is targeted because it dominates politically, culturally, and definitely because it intervenes in other countries out of perceived self interest.

Sure, but to take that on face value you must believe there's something genuinely special about America's 'freedom'. That's the hubris. Every country calls itself the best on Earth - most other countries understand they're not that 'special'. America's been calling itself special for so long its people actually believe it.

America is targeted because it dominates politically, culturally, and definitely because it intervenes in other countries out of perceived self interest.

we're not special. that's part of the legacy of lies of religion. (we're all god's flowers, lamb of god, god is with you, god's chosen, god looks like us, the planet is OUR domain). self-entitled bullshit. that is not reality.
consumerism also sells to the "specialness".

one of the major problems with the psyche of our species is that we're so focused on pursuing our own special self interests to the detriment of the planet and everyone else. consumerism or religion to the individual isn't a big deal. for the collective it is destroying the planet.
shit i'm starting to sound like a broken record.
but evolution of the species means evolution of the consciousness.

bolivia gets it right:
http://www.pvpulse.com/en/news/world-news/bolivia-set-to-pass-historic-law-of-mother-earth-which-will-grant-nature-equal-rights-to-humans#startOfPageI
d776

we are just another species.
i would even go so far to argue that on the whole, we are not an intelligent species. we possess intelligence, and there are those in our species who could be considered intelligent, but most of us just repeat patterns and emotion rules our decisions rather than cognition. Around 80% of humans are virtual automatons.
we celebrate competition and division and feed that to our young, while it is without question that cooperation is how an intelligent species flourishes.

before guilt and shame and expectations that you cannot possibly meet fuck up your life, religion has to first establish that you are something more than a primate, another piece in the collective. it has to first prey upon your ego, your fears, and your self interests. it is an element of control.
Consumerism, before selling you piles of crap, must first convince you that you need to buy that shit, that you deserve it, that you are entitled to it, and that by accumulating more shit to the self, you will fulfill your dreams and your happiness.

>> ^dannym3141:

Have we put ourselves in this situation? So many things work like this. Have we put ourselves in trouble by taking a million bad decisions, or accepting a million injustices, one at a time, each one insignificant, but eventually adding up to something very bad?


I think you really hit the nail on the head there -- that's the real underlying cause of so many problems we face right now. There's so much emphasis on "individual responsibility" and self-interest that people have totally lost sight of the idea that they should be thinking about how their decisions impact society at large.

The end result is that all of that self-centered disregard for other people's problems at the micro level just piles up until our entire society has become organized in ways that seem oppressive and abusive to most of us. That's not because we've been taken over by some cabal of evil geniuses (as so many seem to think), it's because we've walled ourselves in with our own mutual disregard for each other.