Are you growing anything we need to know about?>> ^albrite30:

where do I sign up for all of that fucking awesomeness??

Ouch. I think my inner child was injured reading that. Non-Christians can be motivated by fear of the state. It works. They don't care if they are ultimately responsible to God. Your exegesis isn't necessary here, friend. It's pretty simple. State threatens prison, many people say, "don't want to go there." God doesn't really figure into it for lots of folks.>> ^shinyblurry:

>> ^silvercord:
Dude,
Romans 13:3-4 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
Apparently Paul thought that the fear of authority by those who would break the law should keep them from screwing up. I've met plenty of non-Christians who don't break the law precisely because the state does not bear the sword for nothing.
>> ^shinyblurry:
You're not going to stop kids from sinning by yelling at them. It's not the fear of going to prison which is going to stop them from screwing up, it's the fear of the Lord.
and Shinyblurry then wrote some other stuff . . .



Well, you have to look at the prior verses:
Romans 13:1-2
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
When you break the law, you are rebelling against the authority God has ordained. The minister of God bears the sword, but the judgment comes because of the rebellion. The non-christian wisely fears the sword, but the Christian understands that it is God bringing the judgment that is coming through it. The sword is just the device which God is using to bring that judgment. So this comes back to the fear of the Lord.
If you look at Ecclesiastes, which was a book of wisdom written by Solomon, the wisest man to ever live excepting Jesus, he summed up the entire book in two verses:
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
The reason the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom is because we are ultimately responsible to Him. The non-christian may think that their transgressions are done in a corner, but God sees everything. When you realize that your sins are exposed and your very thoughts are known by God afar off, and that one day you will stand in front of Him and give account for your life, you will change your ways and you will desire to serve Him. That is the beginning of true wisdom.

>> ^silvercord:

Dude,
Romans 13:3-4 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
Apparently Paul thought that the fear of authority by those who would break the law should keep them from screwing up. I've met plenty of non-Christians who don't break the law precisely because the state does not bear the sword for nothing.

>> ^shinyblurry:
You're not going to stop kids from sinning by yelling at them. It's not the fear of going to prison which is going to stop them from screwing up, it's the fear of the Lord.
and Shinyblurry then wrote some other stuff . . .




Well, you have to look at the prior verses:

Romans 13:1-2

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

When you break the law, you are rebelling against the authority God has ordained. The minister of God bears the sword, but the judgment comes because of the rebellion. The non-christian wisely fears the sword, but the Christian understands that it is God bringing the judgment that is coming through it. The sword is just the device which God is using to bring that judgment. So this comes back to the fear of the Lord.

If you look at Ecclesiastes, which was a book of wisdom written by Solomon, the wisest man to ever live excepting Jesus, he summed up the entire book in two verses:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

The reason the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom is because we are ultimately responsible to Him. The non-christian may think that their transgressions are done in a corner, but God sees everything. When you realize that your sins are exposed and your very thoughts are known by God afar off, and that one day you will stand in front of Him and give account for your life, you will change your ways and you will desire to serve Him. That is the beginning of true wisdom.

Dude,

Romans 13:3-4 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

Apparently Paul thought that the fear of authority by those who would break the law should keep them from screwing up. I've met plenty of non-Christians who don't break the law precisely because the state does not bear the sword for nothing.



>> ^shinyblurry:

You're not going to stop kids from sinning by yelling at them. It's not the fear of going to prison which is going to stop them from screwing up, it's the fear of the Lord.

and Shinyblurry then wrote some other stuff . . .

1. I live in Silicon Valley, which is one of the most intense clusters of ambitious and brilliant people in the world. It's easy to move here from the other side of the world and build a network of 1,000 friends in a year just by going to a lot of events and being a smart and nice person.

2. I've watched most of my high school friends do nothing with their lives and become uninteresting people. The only path to massive personal growth and intellectual growth is through building an awesome career that pushes you extremely hard and surrounds you with other awesome people. People who think they're getting a good deal by devoting their life to pleasure and trivialities instead of productivity are sabotaging their human potential.

3. The economy is probably going to decline for the next few or several decades for a number of reasons, so try harder at everything. Build your life. A lot of people are going to experience worsening fortunes in the future and there will be no solution.

>> ^Lolthien:

>> ^chilaxe:
@Yogi
Ha. Well I don't know about tax cuts for the rich.
But the only highly effective solution I've seen for closing academic achievement gaps is to take the kids out of destructive environments and put them in highly academic schools where they're in school doing schoolwork 12 hours a day.
So vouchers might not be a bad idea, instead of forcing kids to attend schools with destructive cultures.
And building an awesome career that contributes a lot to society and makes us rich takes 12 hours a day also, so starting when we're kids seems like a good path out of poverty.

Making kids slog away for 12 hours a day may close the 'academic achievement gap' (or as I like to call it, the 'being good at schoolwork gap'), but how exactly does academic achievement really translate into fulfilling and/or successful careers? Obviously going to an ivy league school is going to get you a better job.. but I'm of the opinion that is mostly due to the contacts you make in school.
And of course, learning to work hard to achieve is a valuable lesson, but would that be any different than having kids learn to whittle trees for 12 hours a day. Teaching critical thinking is a benefit of an education, but would 12 hours of class really help keep a person's mind sharp? Education is important, but forcing kids to sit down for half the day and study seems like the medicine might be worse than the disease...

>> ^chilaxe:

@Yogi
Ha. Well I don't know about tax cuts for the rich.
But the only highly effective solution I've seen for closing academic achievement gaps is to take the kids out of destructive environments and put them in highly academic schools where they're in school doing schoolwork 12 hours a day.
So vouchers might not be a bad idea, instead of forcing kids to attend schools with destructive cultures.
And building an awesome career that contributes a lot to society and makes us rich takes 12 hours a day also, so starting when we're kids seems like a good path out of poverty.


Making kids slog away for 12 hours a day may close the 'academic achievement gap' (or as I like to call it, the 'being good at schoolwork gap'), but how exactly does academic achievement really translate into fulfilling and/or successful careers? Obviously going to an ivy league school is going to get you a better job.. but I'm of the opinion that is mostly due to the contacts you make in school.

And of course, learning to work hard to achieve is a valuable lesson, but would that be any different than having kids learn to whittle trees for 12 hours a day. Teaching critical thinking is a benefit of an education, but would 12 hours of class really help keep a person's mind sharp? Education is important, but forcing kids to sit down for half the day and study seems like the medicine might be worse than the disease...

GREAT POINTS! HOW CAN I SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR NEWSLETTER? THX!

>> ^shinyblurry:

I agree that religion isn't necessary for someone to be moral. What the scripture actually says is that everyone has a God given conscience which tells them right from wrong. So, even if you've never read the bible you should understand that it's wrong to lie, cheat, steal, rape, or murder, etc.
When I speak of fearing the Lord, I am speaking of a reverence and awe towards Him. A filial fear that a child would have towards his father, which includes an appreciation of the consequences of disobedience.
You say at no point does God need to be involved, and you are seeing the fruit that attitude is bearing in American society today. God is involved in everything, from beginning to end, but the choice given to us is whether we want to be involved with His purpose for our lives, or if you want to reject God and go your own way. It's your choice, and there are consequences for what you choose.
The problem with children, and society in general, is that everyone is pointing the finger at conditions. They believe man is inherently noble (although this makes no sense in an evolutionary worldwide) and with the right conditions, he will eventually create a utopia. The problem with this theory is that it has no reflection in reality, be it now or at any time in history. Even when conditions are good, even optimal, corruption is always making swiss cheese of the foundations. Eventually the structure will collapse without divine intervention.
Today, there is more sin, more injustice, more hate, and more senseless destruction than at any other time in our history. The world is reflection of the evil heart of man, which comes not from conditions but his fallen nature. Modern man has an advantage with knowledge, but no improvement in wisdom; he is still as base as he always has been since the fall. This is because the only true wisdom comes from God. Sin and death are the problems in this world and God has ordained the perfect solution: faith in His Son, Jesus Christ. It is the hand of God in a childs life which will keep him on the straight and narrow. Is it impossible for someone to be moral without God: no. Ultimately, though, this person is working against Gods purposes, both for him and this world. This will only ever lead to what we are seeing today.



>> ^Selektaa:
Fear is fear, whether it's of Hell or of prison, it's still fear. You need to teach with positive reinforcement, empathy, to instill in the kids a proper sense or right and wrong. The Bible has some good lessons, the Golden Rule is one of the best, Do unto others as you would have done unto you. I think just that act of projecting yourself unto others can give you the perspective to not be a dick all the time. At no point does God need to be involved, just an understanding and appreciation of your fellow man. Good and responsible behavior doesn't start and stop with religion, and I can't stand it when religions try and claim a monopoly on morality, because it just isn't true.

I agree that religion isn't necessary for someone to be moral. What the scripture actually says is that everyone has a God given conscience which tells them right from wrong. So, even if you've never read the bible you should understand that it's wrong to lie, cheat, steal, rape, or murder, etc.

When I speak of fearing the Lord, I am speaking of a reverence and awe towards Him. A filial fear that a child would have towards his father, which includes an appreciation of the consequences of disobedience.

You say at no point does God need to be involved, and you are seeing the fruit that attitude is bearing in American society today. God is involved in everything, from beginning to end, but the choice given to us is whether we want to be involved with His purpose for our lives, or if you want to reject God and go your own way. It's your choice, and there are consequences for what you choose.

The problem with children, and society in general, is that everyone is pointing the finger at conditions. They believe man is inherently noble (although this makes no sense in an evolutionary worldwide) and with the right conditions, he will eventually create a utopia. The problem with this theory is that it has no reflection in reality, be it now or at any time in history. Even when conditions are good, even optimal, corruption is always making swiss cheese of the foundations. Eventually the structure will collapse without divine intervention.

Today, there is more sin, more injustice, more hate, and more senseless destruction than at any other time in our history. The world is reflection of the evil heart of man, which comes not from conditions but his fallen nature. Modern man has an advantage with knowledge, but no improvement in wisdom; he is still as base as he always has been since the fall. This is because the only true wisdom comes from God. Sin and death are the problems in this world and God has ordained the perfect solution: faith in His Son, Jesus Christ. It is the hand of God in a childs life which will keep him on the straight and narrow. Is it impossible for someone to be moral without God: no. Ultimately, though, this person is working against Gods purposes, both for him and this world. This will only ever lead to what we are seeing today.






>> ^Selektaa:

Fear is fear, whether it's of Hell or of prison, it's still fear. You need to teach with positive reinforcement, empathy, to instill in the kids a proper sense or right and wrong. The Bible has some good lessons, the Golden Rule is one of the best, Do unto others as you would have done unto you. I think just that act of projecting yourself unto others can give you the perspective to not be a dick all the time. At no point does God need to be involved, just an understanding and appreciation of your fellow man. Good and responsible behavior doesn't start and stop with religion, and I can't stand it when religions try and claim a monopoly on morality, because it just isn't true.

Fear is fear, whether it's of Hell or of prison, it's still fear. You need to teach with positive reinforcement, empathy, to instill in the kids a proper sense or right and wrong. The Bible has some good lessons, the Golden Rule is one of the best, Do unto others as you would have done unto you. I think just that act of projecting yourself unto others can give you the perspective to not be a dick all the time. At no point does God need to be involved, just an understanding and appreciation of your fellow man. Good and responsible behavior doesn't start and stop with religion, and I can't stand it when religions try and claim a monopoly on morality, because it just isn't true.

>> ^shinyblurry:

You're not going to stop kids from sinning by yelling at them. It's not the fear of going to prison which is going to stop them from screwing up, it's the fear of the Lord. If you raise your kids correctly, to honor and reverence Almighty God, using corporal punishment when appropriate, you will end up with a child of honor, who will respect other people, and want to contribute something good to society. Of course this also requires ample doses of unconditional love, and sensitivity to the needs of your child. It requires a total commitment to preparing a child for life in this world and giving him all the tools he needs to succeed. Discipline is a necessary component of this, one that is often missing in many homes. The scripture says if you don't discipline your child you hate him. Godly discipline, to note, is not to tear a child down in anger, but build a child up with love, and teach him how to take responsibility for his actions and own his mistakes instead of passing blame on to others.
If a bad product is coming out of a factory, then you need to check the assembly line. It's bad parenting which is creating these children. Parents who constantly coddle their children, try to be their friends and buy them off instead of discipline them. Parents who raise them on television and r rated movies and violent video games and all of this raw sewage of a corrupt and depraved culture being pumped into their fragile young minds. Parenting, just like everything else in life, is a garbage in garbage out principle. I just read a story about 4 eight year old kids performing sex acts on one another because they had figured out how to access internet porn on their ipads. This wouldn't happen if their parents actually knew or cared what was going on in their kids lives.
There used to be a moral standard in this country founded on the bible, but America has rebelled against God and rejected His laws, and now we are reaping the harvest of our rebellion. Our children are growing up without a moral compass or godly role models and you even cannot begin to count this cost. The only way this situation will change is if we fall on our faces and repent of our wickedness:
2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

>> ^chilaxe:

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Sagemind:
Ya, I've watched this show many times - a few times with my kids. At the end of the show, they give updates on the kids. (and they are just kids) - some straighten out and some go down the tubes. it's a 50/50 process.

I bet it's about the same if you picked troubled kids at random and didn't subject them to this BS. There is no evidence that this helps in anyway.

Yeah, if we want to get kids to straighten out, the only way to do it is to give them a path in life.


As long as that means tax cuts for the rich and voucher schools!

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Sagemind:
Ya, I've watched this show many times - a few times with my kids. At the end of the show, they give updates on the kids. (and they are just kids) - some straighten out and some go down the tubes. it's a 50/50 process.

I bet it's about the same if you picked troubled kids at random and didn't subject them to this BS. There is no evidence that this helps in anyway.


Yeah, if we want to get kids to straighten out, the only way to do it is to give them a path in life.

In reply to this comment by JiggaJonson:
*promote

Thank you so much for the promote!

>> ^Sagemind:

Ya, I've watched this show many times - a few times with my kids. At the end of the show, they give updates on the kids. (and they are just kids) - some straighten out and some go down the tubes. it's a 50/50 process.


I bet it's about the same if you picked troubled kids at random and didn't subject them to this BS. There is no evidence that this helps in anyway.

this entire video should be part of those d.a.r.e / scared straight anti-drug campaigns

Coming up on "Scared Straight", we drug and kidnap white rapper Boostalk, and then drop him off between Normandy and Western in East Los Angeles. Will the young MC make it out alive? Or will Big Poppa find him before he escapes? The answer to those questions, and many more are coming up. Stay tuned!