They're not "illegal immigrants" if they're refugees. Refugees are leaving another country seeing refuge because they are in danger. It's a legal (hence, not illegal) policy adopted by the united states post WWII because we decided after the fact that we didnt take in enough jewish refugees seeking asylum before the holocaust.

Simply calling these people illegal flies in the face of US law. You, sir, are being anti-American when you falsely claim something is illegal when that is simply not the case.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1225#b



And how exactly is it Biden's fault that there was a crazy hurricane that hit Haiti following a deadly attack on their president?

It is MUCH more on point if you substitute "Biden" with "Conservative American Militarism."

To be fair, yes Biden pulled out way too hastily. He'll own it.

But it's always the GOP that starts getting American soldiers killed on foreign grounds and bleeding American people dry to feed the MIC, make an embarassment of itself abroad, dragging all its allies down along its military misadventures. And then it takes an Democrat POTUS to cut the lost -- at tremendous political cost (and courage to take the blowback) -- to free up the $$$ to rebuild America.

It's just a crying shame America can never win a war post WWII.

Concern about the Afghan people. What a laugh. Since when the Right ever cared about "People"? It's always money over people. The American Right doesn't even care about its own people, let alone a foreign people that the Right is extremely suspicious of (Any random Fox/OAN/Newsmax host: NO F***KING AFGHAN REFUGEES!!!! ALL THE AFHGAN THAT WORKED FOR US AS TRANSLATORS ARE TERROISTS, ALL THERE WOMEN & CHILDREN ARE COMING TO TAKE OVER AMERICA! BELIEVE YOU ME!!).

The end of the war and resumption of the Third Indochina War would precipitate the Vietnamese boat people and the larger Indochina refugee crisis, which saw millions of refugees leave Indochina (mainly southern Vietnam), an estimated 250,000 of whom perished at sea.
The war exacted an enormous human cost: estimates of the number of Vietnamese soldiers and civilians killed range from 966,000 to 3 million. Some 275,000–310,000 Cambodians, 20,000–62,000 Laotians, and 58,220 U.S. service members also died in the conflict, and a further 1,626 remain missing in action. -wiki

So, millions fleeing as refugees, hundreds of thousands died in their attempts to escape, tens of thousands of allies killed by the VC, far more weapons, vehicles, and equipment left abandoned (and less of it decommissioned) to the enemy and a similar abandonment of the government we had been supporting. The scale of Vietnam was exponentially larger, so were the losses when we retreated. How is Kabul worse than that?

Please explain in detail how Kabul is worse. My guess....you've got nothing.

Essentially-

Q: What do you think about Biden leaving innocent women, children, and allies to the Taliban.
A: It's inhuman, outrageous, a total failure of leadership and a serious dereliction of duty. Just disgusting.

Q: Should we be taking in those women, children, and allies as refugees?
A: Are you kidding me!? FUCK NO! They aren't European Christian Republicans, fuck em.

Typical.

Derp.
Better a useful tool than a useless fool....fool. (and every sentence needs a verb, Bob. When you can't even write in what you claim is your native language, you might refrain from insulting those who can. This is why graduating the 8th grade isn't enough education. It makes you an ignorant idiot no reasonable person will listen to.)

First, Open the Books is not a trustworthy or unbiased source of information. OpenTheBooks.com was founded in 2011 (to try to embarrass Obama) by its chief executive officer Adam Andrzejewski, an Illinois entrepreneur and past Republican candidate for governor, with former United States Republican Senator Dr. Tom Coburn as the honorary chairman. It's highly partisan and biased.


Most of those vehicles and weapons we did leave/are leaving, like the cash, were in the hands of the Afghanis when Trump sounded retreat last spring. To "secure/remove/destroy" them we either have to stay and support the government (too late, would have needed to start before releasing the Taliban's army last March), or go to war with the Afghan government and seize it by force, they wouldn't just hand it back...duh.
We aren't "leaving them behind", we gave them to the government that Trump abandoned last spring when he released 5000 hard core Taliban fighters from prison (more than the original Daesh) with no conditions (and without consulting with the Afghan government) and allowed them free reign to destroy the Afghan government while we sat by, not even really preparing to leave but not helping the Afghanis....and he apparently told them they could do whatever they want except attack the retreating Americans, and they did....but sure, that's Biden's fault. 🤦‍♂️

Biden failed to be prepared for the speed of the fall of their government, a failure to be sure, but Trump all but ensured it would be fast and that we would be unprepared. Biden should have been evacuating our allies and helpers since Jan 21....Trump should have started the evacuation of Afghanis in March 2020 but instead his administration wouldn't even consider letting them come to America, so there was no process or staffed department when Biden took over and stopped Trump's attempted civil war and dealt with the out of control Trumpidemic, just a round file and a blind eye for all refugee applications. Recently Biden's administration changed this, creating programs and staffing to accommodate the refugees and convincing our allies to accept many in Europe, something Trump didn't even try.

Trump didn't do anything to get this equipment out of the country for a year either, did he? His plan was to be out 100 days after he left office, but nothing was in the works to make it happen...Too busy campaigning, pushing fraud frauds, and starting coups.

Try again.

Your video, As US Withdraws from Afghanistan, Refugees Must Be Evacuated, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Lol.
So delusional, bob2.
China and Russia both expanded their territories into our allies territories during Trump's presidency, so did Daesh....he not only did nothing, he kissed their filthy assholes and asked for seconds. He abandoned our allies fighting Daesh, allowing them to survive and be a continuing danger to us.

True, China, Russia, and terrorists were laughing at us under Trump, but not so much anymore. Biden doesn't stand with Putin against our own intelligence community and our allies and treaties, nor with China against every other nation in Asia, nor with Russia, Turkey, and Syria when they try to starve millions of refugees. That was ALL Trump.

Hilarious you morons act like this is something new. CRT began in the 70's, not in January. Knowing your nations history, good and bad, is smart. The military has been teaching it for decades, including during Trump's entire term. Suddenly you are up in arms over it....why not 4+ years ago? You morons want to celebrate and foster ignorance and attack knowledge. No wonder you guys are such dumb losers.

You don't even grasp the obvious...
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy. ... If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. Know thy enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

You idiots don't want to know the enemy or ourselves, and have convinced yourselves that ignorance is bliss and strength. It's not. It's painful weakness.

Are you afraid they would abduct and dissect you?


Let me explain the stupidity.
Right wingers want to reopen all businesses especially resturaunts, virus or not, asap
Low wage businesses like restaurants can't reopen because low wage workers aren't returning. Thousands of immigrants that 4 years ago would have been granted refugee status would LOVE to serve you for minimum wage or less and pay taxes, but work visas and refugee status have all but disappeared under Trump and Biden hasn't fixed that yet.

The right's position as I understand it, get us back to work fast, but for fucks sake don't give visas to brown skinned low wage workers to get it done. True story!!

Side note- The southern border states were once Mexico, so we are the alien invaders here, not Mexicans.

Aaaahahaha.

Another Bobesque tantrum post? How lovely.

Trying to equate the slight disappointment the international community has with Biden as president to the abject horror of Trump as president as if the disdain were equal. LMFAHS!! Ridiculously asinine.

As usual, right wing apologists can't read. Some gaps were left when construction halted after Biden halted funding, funding the courts had deemed illegal btw, but others were not. Some were planned, some were due to failures of the fence Trump chose, some were due to contractors doing half assed jobs or being incapable of the work, some due to topography, there were many excuses but in the end, it wasn't a wall, it wasn't complete, it barely extended border barriers, and many places were left less secure...none of which is Biden's fault. They knew full well the next administration wasn't continuing this plan. You don't think they should have planned for that maybe? Finished the parts they dismantled at least before the only supporter left power? Nope. Guess not. Perfectly reasonable to leave it half done and expect the next guy who campaigned against it to finish it or take all the blame for all it's failures. Didn't Donny promise to have it done his first term anyway?

🤦‍♂️

I read a few articles from multiple sources on both sides before responding...not just the one particular cherry picked one you linked...i know better.

Not half ever wanted the wall, and likely under 1/3 want more poorly built fencing now that we've seen how horrible it is. Over half want the border secured, but that's not the same as support for the dumb wall/fence. Border security isn't just a fence, it comes in all flavors. Indeed, many agree that the best way to stem immigration is not building barriers both physical and institutional, but to increase anti narco terrorism funding in central America and end the war on drugs. Starve the drug gangs of money, they'll lose power and stop driving families out.

It was absolutely NOT paid for, Trump had to use an executive order to redirect funds that were earmarked by congress to pay for military family housing, because he couldn't get congress to pay for his boondoggle, much less Mexico as promised. If it had been fully funded, it would have been fully built.

Biden is not doing well at immigration. In his defense, he was left a clusterfuck, but he hasn't solved any major problems yet. As an adult, I'm capable of admitting that easily. The level of incompetence between him and Trump, however, are worlds apart, and the approaches are as well. One dehumanized and demonized immigrants, the other seems to be at least trying to get a working immigration and refugee system back in place, but is moving slowly. Your implications that they're both equally awful indicates either a strong bias for Trump, or strong break with reality.

I and others have clearly said many times on other threads, Biden is failing at immigration, and failing at being prepared to accept immigrant children. As a seeming right wing apologist at best, you seem blind and deaf to those complaints from the left and pretend we are childishly hypocritical instead....so no, you're far from getting it right, you're getting it totally backwards and twisted. Derp.

Another empty complaint/accusation. What fake news did I spread? Pretty easy but also completely meaningless to shout "your wrong" with no explanation, no correction, no specifics. Very Trumpian of you sir.

Anybody who writes what you did about Biden must be a hypocritical and douchey Trump supporter or just a plain brown wrapper nutjob. Even with his speech impediment, Biden is clear, thoughtful, and coherent...unlike Trump who never said a complete sentence or even complete thought in four years. Your hyper biased characterizations and factless, pointless, non sequitor, insult ridden tantrums masquerading as an argument are what paint you as a Trumpster, not your baseless accusations of hypocrisy.

Now I remember why I had you on ignore. Thanks for the reminder.

I mean what I said. Trump (and his subordinates at his direction) made up new regulations, New laws, New restrictions, New limits, new procedures, and new rules that combined made it not just harder but often impossible for people who, before Trump under any administration would have been quickly granted asylum in accordance with the law. He also slowed the process for legally applying, limited the number allowed to apply in a way never done before, and created new systems where instead of waiting in the country they had to wait in another country with no services in crime ridden refugee camps if they're lucky, sometimes sent south of Mexico, many instructed to go home and wait, homes they fled under direct and credible threats of death or worse....many after having their children taken.

Trump did not simply "enforce current laws". He changed them, misinterpreted them, ignored them repeatedly and flagrantly, then enforced those he liked. Consistently the intent was to minimize any immigration as much as possible from countries that aren't predominantly white. Not once was the intent to streamline the system so it would improve, every step was designed to slow the process and deny entry to as many people as possible, even those with legitimate life or death reasons for asylum. He even changed those rules to exclude narco terrorism death threats to be a reason for asylum, not because they aren't valid but because there are too many.

When you personally create the "law" you're enforcing by (often illegally) changing the rules and established interpretation of long standing law and policy to make following the law near impossible and often deadly, you don't get credit as if that's being a humanitarian just enforcing the law. Duh.

Edit: BTW Mr law and order, Trump never followed the law in his business dealings nor with his taxes or his loans (hyperexagerated his property values on loan documents, while minimizing their value on tax forms). His best excuse? His claim that he's not a real businessman and didn't even bother to read the loan and tax documents he swore were correct because he had no idea if they were.....His claim that everyone does that, everyone is a tax cheater and bank fraud perpetrator, is asinine.....but exposes him as the criminal fraud we all know he is, not a man who respects the law.

One of the LEGAL ways to come here is "Show up at a port of entry and request asylum.". The Trump administration ignored that entire process and told people they had to stay in Mexico while they awaited a court date, which Trump also sabotaged. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/11/trump-administrations-final-insult-and-injury-refugees

Sure, his stated policy was "come in the legal way"....but he constantly added more restrictions and insurmountable hurdles to who could even apply, when, and where, trying to stop all legal immigration a few times and succeeding at slowing the legal process to a trickle by not funding more immigration courts, even cutting some funding to the few we had. He also drastically cut the number of legal immigrants accepted, and the number of refugees was cut to near zero.
At the same time, he cut anti narco terrorism funding, making it a choice for many of stay home and die or try to get in the U.S....so he made those masses escaping serious death threats from cartels ineligible for asylum.

Yes, Obama created the temporary holding facilities, but his administration had a 72 hour limit on how long kids stayed there, not Trump, and Obama only used them for unaccompanied minors, Trump used them to separate children from their families and expelled the parents, often to Guatemala or farther away, in many cases not ever even trying to reunite families they separated, and holding the kids for months before putting them in the foster system.

There's some *specific* policies for ya.

Wait....I drink a line by the gallon? Probably better if you don't try to use metaphors, buddy. You don't know how.

Trump's plan? Working? Which one?
His plan to start a depression and epidemic concurrently, making America less appealing?
Or his plan to deny entry to even unaccompanied minors, leaving them alone in Mexico, ripe for abuse with no protections?

You know Biden is continuing the rest of the Trump plan so far, only letting unaccompanied minors across into refugee camps....like Trump did until he caught flack for caging them and denying it....don't you? Probably not. OANN isn't telling you that, and you abdicated your ability to think for yourself long ago.
No one opened the border. You're being lied to again by the same asshats that convinced you of the election fraud fraud. Why do you keep begging them to mislead you? Why do you so enjoy being a misinformed idiot, Bob?

It's odd you aren't complaining about caging them in over crowded camps (which I see as an abject failure by Biden's administration)...perhaps you can foresee the ridicule you might get for complaining about the same thing you defended Trump over?

If Trump's failed fence worked at all, there wouldn't be any making it....but it doesn't work at all....it's usually less secure than what it replaced. It can be cut through in minutes with battery operated grinders and takes days to repair. Some fell down from wind. Almost any section can be pulled down with a car and a chain in seconds. He removed imperfect barriers in favor of useless fencing, making it easy to drive truckloads of anything across the border at will. Thanks Trump....great plan.

I would admit, Biden isn't doing better at preparing for the numbers of refugee children, and he hasn't changed policy much beyond not abandoning children to the cartel sex trade, but treating refugee children like refugee children and not like criminal lowlifes is a step in the right direction. Now we need the infrastructure to handle them. For the money wasted on Trump's legacy fence we could have built it already and could have a functioning immigration system, but Trump had to have that fence....that Mexico didn't pay for.

Note, the main reason people are coming is narco terrorism, created by the war on drugs and made exponentially worse when Trump cut international funding to fight it when his ass wasn't properly kissed by other country's leaders. End the failed war on drugs and use that money to fight organised crime in central America and the flood will be a trickle overnight. Of course, the right has no interest in that, and ignore the evidence of how well decriminalization works.

🤦‍♂️

See, my distinct impression of the Trump administration's policies and actions surrounding immigrants at our southern border was that it... wanted them to fuck off and/or die. "Remain in Mexico" was abhorrent. Family separation was a humanitarian disaster.

What *specific* policies or actions did the Trump administration take or promote which should make me believe they cared? That they had even the tiniest shred of humanity regarding people who've suffered enormously and struggled to reach what they hoped *might be* a less shitty life for themselves and their children?

"Come in legally" is fine, so long as we live up to being the beacon of hope and freedom that we like to think we are. Which would require allowing in a LOT more refugees than the Trump admin tolerated.

Ever read the poem on the base of the Statue of Liberty? It is beautiful, and if the US can manage to live up to it for a change then perhaps we'll have made America great, for the first time.

@bcglorf Here's a tome for you....


It's certainly not (the only way). Converting to green energy sources stimulates the economy, it doesn't bankrupt it, and it makes it more efficient in the future thanks to lower energy costs. My solar system paid for itself in 8 years, giving me an expected 12 years of free electricity and hot water. Right wingers would tell you it will never pay for itself....utter bullshit.

Every gap in our knowledge I've ever seen that we have filled with data has made the estimates worse. Every one. Every IPCC report has raised the severity and shrunk the timeframe from the last report....but you stand on the last one that they admit was optimistic and incomplete by miles as if it's the final word and a gold standard. It just isn't. They themselves admit this.

The odds of catastrophic climate change is 100% in the next 0 years for many who have already died or been displaced by rising seas or famine or disease or lack of water or...... and that goes for all humanity in the next 50 because those who survive displacement will be refugees on the rest's doorsteps. Don't be ridiculous. If we found an asteroid guaranteed to hit in the next 50-100 years, and any possible solutions take a minimum of 50 years to implement with no surprises, and only then assuming we solve the myriad of technical issues we haven't solved in the last 100 years of trying and only if we can put the resources needed into a solution, not considering the constantly worsening barrage of smaller asteroids and the effects on resources and civilisation, we would put all our resources into solutions. That's where I think we are, except we still have many claiming there's no asteroid coming and those that already hit are fake news....including those in the highest offices making the decisions.

Every IPCC report has vastly underestimated their projections, they tell you they are doing it, only including data they are certain of, not new measurements or functions. They do not fill in the gaps, they leave them empty. Gaps like methane melt that could soon be more of a factor than human CO2, and 100% out of our control.

The AR5 report is so terrible, it was lambasted from day one as being incredibly naive and optimistic, and for not including what was then new data. Since its release, those complaints have been proven to be correct, in 5 years since its release ice melt rates have accelerated 60 years by their model. I wouldn't put a whit of confidence in it, it was terrible then, near criminally bad today. I'll take NOAA's estimates based on much newer science and guess that they, like nearly all others in the past, also don't know everything and are also likely underestimating wildly. Even the IPCC AR5 report includes the possibility of 3 ft rise by 2100 under their worst case (raised another 10% in this 2019 report, and expected to rise again by 2021, their next report), and their worst case models show less heat and melting than we are measuring already and doesn't include natural feedbacks because they can't model them accurately yet so just left them out (but noted they will have a large effect, but it's not quantitative yet so not included). Long and short, their worst case scenario is likely optimistic as reality already outpaces their worst case models.

Again, the economy benefits from new energy production in multiple ways. Exxon is not the global economy.

It took 100 years for the impact of our pollution to be felt by most (some still ignore it today). Even the short term features like methane take 25+ years to run their cycles, so what we do today takes that long to start working.

If people continue to drag their feet and challenge the science with supposition, insisting the best case scenario of optimistic studies are the worst we should plan for, we're doomed....and what they're doing is actually worse than that. The power plants built or under construction today put us much higher than 1.5 degree rise by 2100 with their expected emissions without ever building 1 more, and we're building more. Without fantastic scientific breakthroughs that may never come, breakthroughs your plan relies on for our survival, what we've already built puts us beyond the IPCC worst case in their operational lifetimes.

There's a problem with that...I'm good with using real science to identify them without political obstruction and confusion, the difference being we need to be prepared for decisive action once they're identified. So far, we have plans to develop those actions, but that's it. In the event of a "surprise" asteroid, we're done. We just hope they're rare.
This one, however, is an asteroid that is guaranteed to hit if we do nothing, some say hit in 30 years, some say 80. Only morons say it won't hit at all, do nothing.
Climate change is an asteroid/comet in our orbit that WILL hit earth. We are already being hit by ejecta from it's coma causing disasters for millions. You suggest we don't start building a defense until we are certain of it's exact tonnage and the date it will crash to earth because it's expensive and our data incomplete. That plan leaves us too late to change the trajectory. The IPCC said we need to deploy our system in 8-10 years to have a 30-60% chance of changing the trajectory under perfect conditions....you seem to say "wait, that's expensive, let's give it some time and ignore that deadline". I say even just a continent killer is bad enough to do whatever it takes to stop, because it's cheaper with less loss of life and infinitely less suffering than a 'wait and see exactly when it will kill us, we might have space elevators in 10 years so it might only kill 1/2 of us and the rest might survive that cometary winter in space (yes at exponentially higher cost and loss of life and ecology than developing the system today, but that won't be on my dime so Fuck it).' attitude.