>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Red Cross and the Salvation Army do not have the institutional might, experience or resources to handle education.


It wouldn't have to be a nationwide non-profit. They could exist at the state or county level. You happened to grow up in a governmentally run education system. Out of the three options: state-run, private, and non-profit, don't you think its a coincidence that the one you support happens to be the one you grew up with?

thousands of americans receive a private education from preschool to phd, so I don't see how you can argue that its not a viable option.

i just dont see how you can make an argument for forcing me to pay for your childs education. if you cant afford private school, or don't have the time to home school your child, maybe you shouldn't be having a child? how did your child become my responsibility? it seems easy to justify when you are just taking money out of my paycheck--because the reality of the situation is hidden--but it is equivalent to walking into my workplace, putting a gun to my head, driving me to your house, and forcing me to teach your child algebra.

Red Cross and the Salvation Army do not have the institutional might, experience or resources to handle education.

You two are freaking me out with this bizarre sci-fi rape fantasy. I'd have to go with option. 4) Go to the gym and do some serious tongue exercises.

^my mistake. I thought you were insinuating that if McDonalds/Pfizer were in control of an important market, such as Education, they would have unethical business practices. If that is not your charge, what exactly is the problem?

Is your argument that profit would somehow corrupt the system? I am not convinced of this, but lets assume its true. Then, if we deregulate education and a non-profit organization (like the Red Cross or the Salvation Army) sprang up, would there be an issue with that?

Can you make a list of Christian ideas that atheists claim as their own? I'm not at all curious about the pragmatic sides of theisms, but the theft of religious intellectual property is very interesting.

In reply to this comment by ShakaUVM:
In reply to this comment by poolcleaner:
Where did you read that atheists claim these ideas as their own?

Like I said, I spend a lot of time on the IIDB boards, and it's a fairly common to see statements like "Religion shouldn't be used as a justification for war" being used as a club against theists.

I'm a theist, and I agree with that statement, and the concept was developed by theists during the Enlightenment, which is why seeing statements like that (or many of the statements made by Sam Harris) annoy me.

Personally, my philosophy is basically Pragmatic, so things like this actually matter quite a bit, as I tend to judge philosophies and religions by the results they produce. While atheism is a fairly reasonable position, when you look at guys like Sam Harris and Dawkins, who basically make their money by being fucktards towards Christians, that I get really annoyed with it. Dan Dennett is closer to the breed of atheist that I prefer.

At the same time, when I look at the immense amount of good being done around the world by Christians and the almost total lack of anything resembling, say, an atheist Red Cross, compounded by the direction that all the atheist nations have gone to to date (China, USSR, France, Cambodia), that I think a Pragmatic argument for Christianity becomes clear.

Don't think that my theism is just for Pragmatic reasons - I do think that Christianity is a defensible stance (and, in fact, a quite probable one, for various reasons) -- but Pragmatic arguments are a sort of common ground that both theists and atheists can participate in.

In reply to this comment by poolcleaner:
Where did you read that atheists claim these ideas as their own?

Like I said, I spend a lot of time on the IIDB boards, and it's a fairly common to see statements like "Religion shouldn't be used as a justification for war" being used as a club against theists.

I'm a theist, and I agree with that statement, and the concept was developed by theists during the Enlightenment, which is why seeing statements like that (or many of the statements made by Sam Harris) annoy me.

Personally, my philosophy is basically Pragmatic, so things like this actually matter quite a bit, as I tend to judge philosophies and religions by the results they produce. While atheism is a fairly reasonable position, when you look at guys like Sam Harris and Dawkins, who basically make their money by being fucktards towards Christians, that I get really annoyed with it. Dan Dennett is closer to the breed of atheist that I prefer.

At the same time, when I look at the immense amount of good being done around the world by Christians and the almost total lack of anything resembling, say, an atheist Red Cross, compounded by the direction that all the atheist nations have gone to to date (China, USSR, France, Cambodia), that I think a Pragmatic argument for Christianity becomes clear.

Don't think that my theism is just for Pragmatic reasons - I do think that Christianity is a defensible stance (and, in fact, a quite probable one, for various reasons) -- but Pragmatic arguments are a sort of common ground that both theists and atheists can participate in.

I think the officer handled everything very professionally. If the owner was that serious about his pet, perhaps he should have taken his negligent ass down to the red cross (they usually do it) and learned how to preform CPR / doggie Heimlich so that he could have saved his dogs life without putting people t risk. I'll tell you what works (on smaller dogs)- wrap your mouth around your dogs nose and blow. you'll force air into his lungs, and back up through his mouth. With any luck, the foreign object will come popping out. Even if your dog isn't choking, its still fun to do. Yeah, this guy was a moron. I have 2 dogs (well I have one my wife has another) and I care very much for them. Would I drive like a douche bag to save them? No. Would I do everything I could possibly do to get them to an emergency vet if I couldn't handle it? yes. That means speeding, but not criminal speeding. the 8-10 rule would hae been fine, because like payback pointed out, speeding doesn't actually save you a whole lot of time.

[Eidt] If you really want to know, check it out. http://www.tripcalculator.org/

>> ^my15minutes:
and it's not that fiscal conservatives are heartless, necessarily. most would simply want charity to be left in private hands, and can present equally sound reasons and priorities for it.

I agree, I don't think conservative citizens are heartless (for the most part), I just think the leadership of the Republican party is completely heartless -- and that people for some reason wind up backing a party that fights efforts to control carbon emissions, fights efforts to improve education, fights efforts to improve health care, and wants us to "compete" with third world nations for the lowest common wage.


for starters, it's more efficient. if you give directly to a charity, the state doesn't have to take a cut, to maintain their staff and expenses. so when i give to a charity, one of the first things i check is the percentage of all donations that is necessary for the upkeep of the charity itself.
http://charityreports.bbb.org/public/All.aspx?bureauID=9999#H
American Red Cross - Programs: 95% Fund Raising: 2% Administrative: 3%
promote!


Private organizations aren't always better: Medicare has similarly low overhead (3%), while Aetna has overhead costs approaching 25%.

For things like feeding, educating, and providing care for the less fortunate, why do we have to make it voluntary? Don't we have a collective responsibility to help?

I understand the intellectual arguments from conservatives, but they're usually based on an automatic assumption that private organizations are always better for every purpose, and that just isn't the case.

There's also an ethical calculus at work behind it that seems foreign to me. To me, paying more taxes to improve education, provide better health care, and fund research into alternative energy sounds like a great idea that will end up benefiting everyone. To conservatives, it's stealing their hard-earned cash to give to "people who didn't earn it".

The higher minded make into a conversation about whether we can trust the government to use our money for things like education, and not booze, hookers, and wars in Iraq, but that's a whole different problem -- one we can fix with ballot boxes, or failing that, torches and pitchforks.

...but I'm ranting again. Thanks for the promote.

^ oh, absolutely!

and there'll be plenty of Democrats, like yourself, who really are Democrats. who have very solid reasons why they are fiscal, as well as social, liberals. an honest belief that one of the roles of government is to help the less fortunate get a leg up. i think that's a fair assessment of how a true Democrat would see, that which others might deride as a 'welfare state'.

and it's not that fiscal conservatives are heartless, necessarily. most would simply want charity to be left in private hands, and can present equally sound reasons and priorities for it.

for starters, it's more efficient. if you give directly to a charity, the state doesn't have to take a cut, to maintain their staff and expenses. so when i give to a charity, one of the first things i check is the percentage of all donations that is necessary for the upkeep of the charity itself.

http://charityreports.bbb.org/public/All.aspx?bureauID=9999

American Red Cross - Programs: 95% Fund Raising: 2% Administrative: 3%

*promote!

Next thing you know, you guys will want a “hair channel.”

Hmmm . . . our roastee is a master, of several computer brands, who actually manages to pry himself away from several keyboards to ref hockey, run for the Red Cross, hike, camp and street race. He even describes himself as a “survivalist buff.” Um, it might be wise of us to vote him off the island now.

Thesnipe is a one-avatar-kind-of-guy. I guess he help brings balance to the Sift. Of course, at the other end of the spectrum we have The Avatar Chameleon Himself, choggie.

>>Whipped cream for various purposes.>>I imagine a number of us saw “Varsity Blues.”


>> List your five most cherished possessions.>> You put “Friends” first.

>>I've developed my own sense or religion though, no churches and that crap.>>
>> I'm a mix of Christian and Buddhist if you had to pin it down.>>
So now we’re talking “cult” maybe?

>>horror movies score some close intimate time.>> You use horror films to create intimate moments.

Note to Self: maybe marking thesnipe as a friend isn’t such a good idea after all.


>>What is your favorite memory? Let's call it college experimentation.>> Yep, lots of mental visuals you generated for this motley crew – right Mr. Stripper Dust?

Here are snipes's responses to the survey:

1. What do you do when you are not at the computer?
I'm a hockey ref so I'm basically at the rink or running on call for the Red Cross. Last week was 16 games so I haven't had much online time.
2. What is your favorite of your posted videos?
It has to be The Myth of the Liberal Media since I have a republican family or The Award Winning Boondocks Gas Station Robbery for it's reference to Iraq.
3. How many avatars have you had since being a member? What were (are) they?
Just the one of Inuyasha, I love anime.
4. What non-self-involved site do you visit most often?
Most likely CNN or Flickr.
5. If you had a time machine would you keep it clean?
What the hell? No I'd just let it sit and collect dust like most of my electronics.
6. What is your ratio of pairs of shoes to underwear?
1:20
7. Is that underwear boxer, brief, or birthday?
Only really boxers, but since I'm overdue on laundry I went commando today.
8. Do you run a Mac OS, Windows, or Linux?
All 3, an OSX emulator, XP and Ubuntu
9. Would you most prefer to be involved in a monumental one-of-a-kind hiking expedition, working on a breakthrough cure for a debilitating illness , or presenting the discovery of a revolutionary new way to parse data?
Hiking, I love the outdoors and camping, I'm a survivalist buff.
10. What is your favorite ice cream topping? Favorite (non-ice-cream-related) spice?
Whipped cream for various purposes.
11. Are you a tits, ass, or legs man?
Face really, if you haven't noticed I'm obsessed with Scottish girls like KT Tunstall.
12. What kind of pet(s) do you have? Include name(s).
Goldie, my pooch from '99 who's a mix of husky, lab and chow.
13. What kind of pelt(s) do you have? Include name(s).
Rabbit, from some weird Indian chick.
14. What is your favorite kind of soup?
None
15. What is your most frequented source of news?
Usually CNN or <a rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.app.com> my local news paper
16. What is your beverage (poison) of choice?
Rootbeer schnapps, cream and vanilla vodka, yeah yeah it's a chick drink.
17. Have you ever been arrested?
Detained, yes, for street racing.
18. What’s your go-to move for making a good first impression?
I skip movies, I'd rather have a dinner to talk about, however horror movies score some close intimate time.
19. How would you describe your coif: bangs, balding or rug?
Bangs with long ass hair, you've probably seen it.
20. Is your face clean-shaven or do you have a beard, a goatee or a mustache?
goatee, although most people hate it.
21. List your five most cherished possessions.
Friends, Computers, my Tiburon, cell phone and does videosift count?
22. What religion, if any, did you practice as a child?
As a kid I was grown up Catholic, I've developed my own sense or religion though, no churches and that crap.
23. What about now?
I'm a mix of Christian and Buddhist if you had to pin it down.
24. What is your favorite memory?
Let's call it college experimentation.
25. What was your favorite childhood television show?
Fraggle Rock!!!!!!!!!!
26. How would you describe your personal style/sense of fashion/taste for life/artistic flair?
More a mix of Punk Dressy type stuff and H&M fashion.
27. What is a reason not to go to Burning Man?
Airfare
28. Who is your favorite Sift Hero?
Hero? Dag and lucky, the champions of the sift.
29. Do you have any image(s) of yourself online that you're willing to share?
Sure, you've seen it, working and rocking videosift.
30. What goal to you have while a Videosift member?
Add new members!!!
31. Do you upvote comments more for their originality, sense of humor, or self-deprecation?
Most likely if it makes me laugh or hits on a huge point.

LOL that is sooo true. I can't tell you how many bags exploded from people pouring water and the cocoa into the bag and then putting books or even sitting on the bag opening. It was hard not to laugh. The best was when people complained their chocolate was bad after it had sat in the steaming bag with the meal and mostly everything else that came in the bag. I personally thought the new MREs are 10 times better then the old crap. They did a decent job this time and if prepared PROPERLY they are damn good meals. I even took a few back to my dorm for those late nights hitting the books.

In reply to this comment by MarineGunrock:
ROFL @ MRE no0bs. We would feed them to the Iraqis that would work on our base - it was hilarious to watch them try to figure it out. They would pour water into the heater and then mix in their cocoa powder. They, however, don't know English, so there's no excuse for the morons you saw.

In reply to this comment by thesnipe:
I've worked many a shelters in my life with the Red Cross and ambulance corps. Working for hurricane shelters was the first I got my hands on the new style MREs, I was hooked. The pasta was actually decent but of course we all traded and bartered for the snacks (since we had our first pick of meals).

The funny/sad thing (depending on the type of person) was watching them try to work it. I can't tell you the countless numbers of people who took out the main meal and poured water on it, or ended up heating up their snacks...not to mention the fun with the MRE bombs...those are the days being an EMT gets quite interesting.

ROFL @ MRE no0bs. We would feed them to the Iraqis that would work on our base - it was hilarious to watch them try to figure it out. They would pour water into the heater and then mix in their cocoa powder. They, however, don't know English, so there's no excuse for the morons you saw.

In reply to this comment by thesnipe:
I've worked many a shelters in my life with the Red Cross and ambulance corps. Working for hurricane shelters was the first I got my hands on the new style MREs, I was hooked. The pasta was actually decent but of course we all traded and bartered for the snacks (since we had our first pick of meals).

The funny/sad thing (depending on the type of person) was watching them try to work it. I can't tell you the countless numbers of people who took out the main meal and poured water on it, or ended up heating up their snacks...not to mention the fun with the MRE bombs...those are the days being an EMT gets quite interesting.

I've worked many a shelters in my life with the Red Cross and ambulance corps. Working for hurricane shelters was the first I got my hands on the new style MREs, I was hooked. The pasta was actually decent but of course we all traded and bartered for the snacks (since we had our first pick of meals).

The funny/sad thing (depending on the type of person) was watching them try to work it. I can't tell you the countless numbers of people who took out the main meal and poured water on it, or ended up heating up their snacks...not to mention the fun with the MRE bombs...those are the days being an EMT gets quite interesting.

so ok, that is why i am being strict on the law here, to define what is a war and what is an illegal occupation.

You should say "in a time of pillage" maybe, that would be more accurate.

Let's use good old wikipedia.
"In public international law, a declaration of war entails the recognition between countries of a state of hostilities between these countries, and such declaration acted to regulate the conduct between the military engagements between the forces of the respective countries. The primary multilateral treaties governing such declarations are the Hague Conventions."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war

So ... which country are the US at war with in Iraq?

And as for war crimes...
Dr. Hans Peter Gasser, former Senior Legal Adviser at the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), outlines the basic rules of IHL:

1. Persons who are not, or are no longer, taking part in hostilities shall be respected, protected and treated humanely. They shall be given appropriate care, without any discrimination.
2. Captured combatants and other persons whose freedom has been restricted shall be treated humanely. They shall be protected against all acts of violence, in particular against torture. If put on trial they shall enjoy the fundamental guarantees of a regular judicial procedure.
3. The right of parties to an armed conflict to choose methods or means of warfare is not unlimited. No superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering shall be inflicted.
4. In order to spare the civilian population, armed forces shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and civilian objects on the one hand, and military objectives on the other. Neither the civilian population as such nor individual civilians or civilian objects shall be the target of military attacks. [1].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_humanitarian_law

So that's 4 strikes and you're out as far as i can tell. If you're not in a proper war, and you're not fighting another country's army, the definition of "civilian" gets a bit confusing, right?

Notice how these "barbarians" always attack whoever is on their land stealing their oil. It's not so confusing.

silvercord:

The Red Cross is a secular organization. Its name and symbol are based on the Swiss flag, not the crucifix. From the Red Cross FAQ:
"Why are symbols other than a red cross used by other National Societies within the Movement?
Although the red cross is not a religious symbol, some societies view it as such. The symbol of the red crescent is used instead of the red cross by societies in most Islamic countries; and the Magen David Adom, or Red Shield of David, is used in Israel.

Impartiality: It makes no discrimination as to nationality, race, religious beliefs, class or political opinions. It endeavours to relieve the suffering of individuals, being guided solely by their needs, and to give priority to the most urgent cases of distress.

Neutrality: In order to continue to enjoy the confidence of all, the Movement may not take sides in hostilities or engage at any time in controversies of a political, racial, religious or ideological nature. "
Nowhere on their website are Jesus, God, Christ, Jehovah, Yaweh, or any other gods mentioned.

AA is a religious organization, but atheists could just as well set up a program to help alcoholics. There's no evidence that faith is necessary for its effectiveness.

The salvation army operates some good thrift stores and helps out the poor, but there's no evidence that faith is necessary for any of that.