I'd be more worried about the guys who kill 1,600 people and aren't emotionally traumatized... The fact he's ridiculed by his former pilot mates is disturbing, that they can so distance themselves from killing is scary... of course we have a nation full of people who claim to be pro-life on one hand, yet fully support the preemptive killing of people who haven't done anything to us yet, and indeed may have never participated in any direct or indirect attacks on US soil, let alone against US citizens abroad. It's one thing to target and kill people who were involved in 9/11 or other attacks against US facilities, but preemptively killing people we suspect may become involved is creating a far bigger problem than it solves. This is why we need people like Bernie Sanders rather than any of the other candidates on either side of the aisle, all of whom (besides perhaps Rand Paul, who's fairly heartless towards America's working poor as the rest of his party) will continue the Bush doctrine of shoot and kill first, ask questions later, and never have any regret...

Aren't the police complicit in this scenario? Historically, effective opposition to state-sanctioned murder often takes the form of campaigns of sabotage and assassination. We ought to be grateful pro-lifers generally lack the courage of their convictions.

It's meaningless to criticise a person's actions when they fall in line with their ideology. Whatever you see in the video, as well as much more extreme measures besides, is totally justified if the pro-life position is correct.

Same Harris' response to the whole affair: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/can-liberalism-be-saved-from-itself

I do think that it's important while pointing out these things, one also needs to point out that here in the US at least, over half the Christians claim to be pro-life while supporting the death penalty, encouraging war, and being against programs that help the needy and the poor, or at least that's how they vote. And here perhaps Maher and Harris fail...I think it's fairly obvious all religion is bad. Christianity spread by the sword, forcing Europe to convert from their Pagan ways, eventually offering to integrate aspects of Pagan holidays into Christian ones to make it more enticing. Convert or die may not be practiced in Christianity much now, but public shaming if you leave Christianity and bigotry to those of other religions or lack of faith is very real. Several polls have shown that most Christians would prefer to elect a Muslim over an Atheist even if they are otherwise the same. And many still seem to believe in that religion should be pushed, not just something tolerated and allowed... of course I admit I'm a bit colored and biased by the fact I'm surrounded by the Tea Party/Fox News type Christians pretty much everywhere I go, home, a bit at work... Were I to escape being around them so much, I'd probably soften my view a bit.

So is the Punisher.
But you know what? THEY'RE COMICBOOK CHARACTERS!
Are you a teenager? You sound awfully like one. All those half-assed ideas how to fix very, very complex problems (they just don't care, don't let them breed!) and that disturbing rage (just execute everyone!), all that looks so familliar. So much misanthropy and so little understanding of the world. The only people I've ever seen like that are teenagers and people so far in the political right wing, they make Neonazis seem progressive.

Please tell me, are you pro-life?

pfft, the rich have welfare, they just call it tax breaks, and they have the lobbyists to keep them.

No one wants those on foodstamps to use them for alcohol and other frivolous items. name me one non-foodstamp-using person who does? It's a strawman that the right obsessively cling to.

As with so many things, it's not about laws or bureaucracy, it's about enforcement. laws mean nothing without enforcement. I'm getting sick of seeing more and more panhandlers downtown where I live and I completely agree that handouts are not an efficient solution.

but you know what isn't a good solution either? negative reinforcement. We've been living under the conservative idea that if we just keep punishing the poor and making their lives more miserable, then obviously that will be motivation to not be poor.

IT DOESN'T WORK. maybe it works for a small percentage of people, but those people aren't poor then. so you have a group of people that are continually being punished and devalued for no good fucking reason because if they aren't motivated to not be poor under these kinds of conditions, then they never will be.

so again, we have this situation where there are two solutions that aren't really effective, but one is slightly less bad than the other. sure some people may use their foodstamps for alcohol and other shit...but many people do actually use their foodstamps for...food. shock.

Even if you had a much more equal distribution of wealth, we're still going to have poor people and people in poverty.

I think the issue is largely mired in health, physical and mental. Even with all our technology...mental health is still unreliable and some people are so physically impaired that they can't work or work well.

Despite largely claiming to be pro-life, the right would either secretly want them to die alone in an alley or make them indentured servants to some corporation if they aren't already. That, I submit, is no life, at least not a good and healthy one.

I don't have the answer, all we can really do is point out that many of the things we've tried aren't working and will never work, and even if there are some successes, it's still largely inefficient, but what's the alternative? if you are "pro-life" then an inefficient solution is still preferable to a solution that simply doesn't work. So I call bullshit on people who like to claim they have the solution. If someone out there has the solution, they certainly haven't demonstrated it yet.

Not to mention how "pro-life" people are pro-life..... right up until the question of the death penalty arises

another strawman and appeal to emotion.

See that's the great thing about choice. If you choose to have the baby, fine. If you choose to not have the baby fine.

Again....NOT YOUR DECISION. It's theirs...not you...get it? Yours is an ego-driven argument. what you would do is not superior...it's just different.

It's already been decided that a fetus doesn't have rights as it is not human. that's why it's called a fetus. see, words have meaning and that's why we call it a fetus...because it's not human.

you can recite all these anecdotal stories...but that's all they are...anecdotal. The experiences and struggles of an entire population are just a tad bit larger than your self-centered viewpoint.

There are plenty of times I would not approve of an abortion. Especially if the parents are financially and emotionally secure to have a child. There's just no reason for it. But again, I am capable of thinking beyond my self and beyond my ego.

you should try to do the same.

besides, you can't really wrap yourself in the flag of "pro-life" since the policies of the right are very hypocritical. save the fetus at all cost, but once the kid is out of the womb, cut education, cut gov't services that would enrich it's life and give it a better chance at success.

i am personally pro-life.

that being said,i do not feel i have the right to judge another for decisions they make in regards to their own body.

i have personally escorted four women to have this procedure done and though i may have disagreed with their choices,i did,however,understand them.

their decisions weighed heavily on them.they struggled with the morality and consequences and ultimately the inevitable shame/guilt/regret.

i offered to escort these women not as a way to approve of their decision but rather to protect them from the usual throngs of judgmental,rabid fundamentalist christians that congregated at the few clinics that performed this procedure.

they behaved like anything BUT christians and the shame they attempted to project on my escortee (is that even a word?) should have been directed at themselves.

the long term effects of this choice leaves deep and long lasting scars and i have never met a woman who chose this procedure lightly.

let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
judge not lest ye be judged.

who are we to judge anothers path?
by what right do we reserve such moral authority?

Such a hot-button topic. I haven't watched the video yet but I will.

I do wonder how many pro-life believers have seen this and cried while watching.

ahh the slippery slope argument.

..gay marriage will lead to bestiality!

..marijuana is a gateway drug!!

..Anything Obama-related is the first step to socialism!

I can tell you this. No one enjoys asking their employer for a raise. I think if it were up to most people, they would never ask, but that's dependent on employers providing their workers with a living wage.

This is what happens when employers refuse to raise wages to match inflation. Even I think 15 bucks seems steep, but that's what economists say will give people shelter, food and healthcare. It's frustrating that the cost of living varies wildly in the US. I live in Nebraska where the cost of living is low so I always get sticker shock when I see prices nearby in Colorado, and even then, I know it's still cheap compared to the coasts. I wish we lived in a world where the cost of living was more even. But we don't

In a perfect world, I would say let the states figure out what's a good wage in their areas...and some do, But a lot ignore it, so it's on the fed to step in.

And it's absolutely a moral argument because it comes down to whether or not you believe even the lowest paid workers are deserving of decent food, shelter and healthcare. It's ironic because most of these corporate apologists probably consider themselves pro-life, yet they don't seem to have any problem withholding that which promotes a productive and healthy life.

It's kinda hard to pull yourself up by the bootstraps when you can't afford bootstraps...or if you're too busy dealing with health issues to improve your job options.

and the people chanting "LET HIM DIE!!" are supposedly in the "pro-life" party.

I have no problem with personal responsibility. Contrary to what the GOP, Tea Party, and Libertarians would have you believe, pretty much everyone believes in personal responsibility and having consequences for your actions.

But there is a significant difference between:

1. Hey, you made a bad choice, sorry, but you don't get to have a two week vacation in cancun, you don't get to buy your kids the latest iPhone, sorry, that new car will have to wait a bit. You'll probaby have to sell your expensive home, yet still be able to have a basic home or afford a non-slum apt still.

and

2. Hey you made a bad choice, you now have to go live in an alleyway and/or live your life in severe physical pain and have a shortened life-span. Sorry, you won't be able to send your kids to college or retire now. Oh and I forgot, we're also going to make it as hard as possible for you to recover from your bad choice. You might as well brand yourself a failure forever. No second chance for you!

dead people can't learn things.

No, choggie my love is correct.

As someone who hasn't lived in Texas since you were 13, you do not hold an insiders perspective and therefore should not speak as if you do.

This video exists because all of us "typical texas freedom hating right wingers" are SCREAMING by the thousands to stop these insane laws in their tracks. We're far from the only state with these types of laws on the books or attempting to weasel their way onto the books. And these laws are making it to the books not because people are so pro-life and against reproductive choice, it's because these laws are making someone with much more power a lot of MONEY.

The problem is not that your average poor stupid fuck red neck hill billy cousin fuckin po dunk texas trash is actually in favor of this shit, the problem is $$ in government. And thats a problem common to the entire GLOBE. No matter what superior state you're typing from your high horse in.

In what sense exactly, in that they disagree with you on something?

Abortion isn't simply a yes/no type of black and white issue. Not many pro-life folks are the every sperm is sacred, bomb a clinic type. Not many pro-choice folks support ultra late term abortions or abortion as birth control or based on the child's gender.

Trying to turn the debate into a simplistic with us or against cause puts you on the nutter side IMHO.

>> ^Sagemind:

I am really unsure what is going on here.
What did he do?


http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/11/wow-what-a-freak-show-heckler-totally-hijacks-obama-rally-gets-dragged-out-by-police-video/

An apparent pontificus member of the 'pro-life 'persuasion with a sign at an Obama pep-rally was arrested. He is no-doubt another life-time member of the no-fly club now.

In all fairness, this may have been the catalyst for him becoming pro-life.

His pro-life stuff is 2 years old while the abortion stuff is 10+ years old.

Not that I believe any of this is the case but the logic here is incorrect.