>> ^JiggaJonson:

Ok I'm sorry, i know this is my third comment on this but I've been perplexed/utterly fascinated by this whole thing. It seems like the website http://politics.freesitenow.com/basilmarceauxforgovernor/ which is where BasilMarceaux.com will redirect you to is down due to a huge traffic influx but I found others who have been to the site:



Just checked out the website. This guy is indeed either brilliant or batshit insane. I love how he mentions the importance of education while only having the most basic grasp of spelling and grammar. There are just so many crazy things to quote but one of my favourites has to be:

"See why dental is not in most plans a tooth aches hurt more than a back aches and no teeths depresses people"

Ok I'm sorry, i know this is my third comment on this but I've been perplexed/utterly fascinated by this whole thing. It seems like the website http://politics.freesitenow.com/basilmarceauxforgovernor/ which is where BasilMarceaux.com will redirect you to is down due to a huge traffic influx but I found others who have been to the site:

"When I first saw the video early this morning, I thought Marceaux had just kicked back a few too many drinks to calm his nerves before a big television appearance but, after viewing Marceaux’s website (which, despite what he says in the video, totally isn’t ImBasilMarceaux.com or even BasilMarceaux.com) and reading his writings, it became clear that what you see is what you get and that this is the real Basil Marceaux…or possibly the most brilliant political performance art prank since Andy Kaufman threw on some cheek puddy, faked a deeper gruff voice, and made everyone believe that there was a real man named “Richard Nixon“. On the website, Marceaux has a list of “Things I done for my citizens,” asks “why Democracy invaded the U.S. State on July 16 1866,” and promises that, if people vote for him, “I WIN I WILL IMMUNE YOU FROM ALL STATE CRIMES FOR THE REST OF YOU LIFE!” Even more amazingly, you can check out his son’s site (Basil Jr. is running for Tennessee House Representative) and find some equally terrific quotes."

http://www.mediaite.com/online/meet-gubernatorial-candidate-basil-marceaux-proof-americas-democracy-is-still-healthy/

[EDIT]

And if you want a REAL laugh check out his youtube page which consists of nothing but him staring into the camera for 8 minutes with static audio
http://www.youtube.com/basilmarceaux#p/

Once upon a time I too thought I was important, then I found out just how many poolcleaners there really were... WHO ARE THESE OTHER POOLCLEANERS?! AREN'T I THE ONLY CLEANER OF POOLS! The idea of individuality in the midst of a seemingly anonymous mass is perplexing to stink animals such as we. No matter how many times I hop into my car and wade through the flood of automobiles on the freeway, it will always be me versus the masses. But no -- I am the masses, and Harvey Pekar 1, 2, and 3 are the masses, too. But this is frightening to our fragile egos so I won't ever speak of it again. There can only be one me in all the multiverse -- ONE ME!

Hmm, it doesn't look to be a percentage based graph, thus the deficit directly related to the tax cuts grows. I suppose that makes sense, since the state loses "income" in the form of those taxes.

I'm also a little perplexed as to how the debt from the two lighter blue ones are reduced so drastically. I just don't understand why those things are the way they are.

There looks to be some more detailed explanations in the link you provided though, I'll have to chew my way through them.


In any case, it's scary how much the war costs are dwarfed by the tax cuts. How much were those tax cuts?

The confidence of people like Vince has always perplexed me.

He's the kind of guy who makes me change the channel whenever I see him come on. He is easily one of the most annoying personalities I have ever experienced, and yet he, and many people like him, seem to do pretty well in life, despite bugging the shit out of almost everybody they meet.

Strange life. Strange how the good ones fall and the bad ones rise.

Surprised we made it this far, lasted this long, which a universal truth such as that.

i struggled with this interview due to Woo being so vague and obtuse but in the third part he finally gives some insight to his possible reasons.

those reasons are quite simply an argument that stems to the beginning of this republic.his defense is an ideological one and is very hard to prosecute but easy to defend.the federalist papers were an ongoing argument between alexander hamilton and james madison (if i recollect properly) and the basic premise was,in summary,which is a more beneficial form of government in regards to the federal governments role.
1.a fairly weak federal government whose role is security and little else.leaving the bulk of responsibility on the states.
2.a strong federal government with not only security as a responsibility but also final say on states powers to regulate themselves.
this is the basic argument and we still have representative ideologies today in our political landscape i.e:democrat-republican.

Woo seems to be of the idea that it is the ultimate responsibility of the federal government,and more specifically,the executive branch that should wield greater power.
this is his right though you may disagree.
what i find perplexing is that Woo is a neo-conservative and a republican party member.this is the party of SMALLER government and weaker powers.why would he use a democrat philosophy?
answer=because he is full of shit and nothing of what he did had anything to with his political philosophy.he created the torture memos to absolve his superiors of any wrong-dong by manipulating the law.
it is either that or he is a confused,misguided tool.
considering he is a professor of constitutional law i am going to guess he was working at the behest of those who wielded power at the time.
he is a whore who traded his political ideologies for career asperations.
that or he is a closet democrat.

Edit: Apologies, I just noticed you changed yours to private, so I will do the same now.
Edit 2: No fuck it, it's public. Say thanks to this moron: http://rasch187.videosift.com/#comment-897638

Hi again Rae,

First off, I'm sorry about the mile long wall of text. I do hope you will read all of it none-the-less.

I'm glad you came out yourself to address this, because it's better we get this over with properly, so we can move on with our lives.

I'll stress as well, that UP and Rasch got in to their fight on their own, I had no involvement until UP sent me a message about it.

I was under a completely different impression about being invited to bea's place and honestly I still am. I didn't try to force myself over there, but when she invited me, however casually, we discussed quite a bit on messenger afterwards. I wouldn't have gone over there if I had been given the slightest impression that she was not comfortable with it. I'm very sorry that she did feel pressured into it, but I never intended to do that. I just saw a trip to Texas as a golden opportunity to get OUT, get away from Denmark for a while. As we discussed in our chats, I had been feeling restless and bogged down in everyday life for a pretty long and her invitation was like a blessing to me (for lack of a better word). I may have been eager about it, but I don't know what to say - I just wanted to get out. I didn't buy the tickets overnight - we did discuss it, and we chatted quite a lot before I did come over there, and she never gave any indication that she didn't want me to come over.

In the very first chat we had on messenger, I very clearly remember it, you said.. "I could seriously fall for you" and followed it up by "but I'm actually already taken (...)" and we got into a discussion about jake and all that. I accepted it already then. We both carried on afterwards with talking dirty and watching all that weird porn (you were quite as much to blame for that!) and I had loads of fun, because you were much different from anyone I knew. You made me smile when we talked.

I'm sorry I didn't let the coming to meet you lie, but I was not being so frantically serious about it. I really wanted to meet you, yes, and to be honest I still would, in a crowded room, with many sifters. At a siftup, perhaps. (Incidentally, I have nothing against Jake. I think he's a good guy and you two ARE lucky to have found each other.)

I never meant to imply that he and you were not serious. You made it abundantly clear that you were very serious, I was just being a smart-ass, because if I had been in his shoes that's what I would have wanted to do. I never meant to imply anything about you and Jake with that, so I'm sorry you saw it as such. I really am.

About skype and messenger for that matter, I only asked for your skype address once and it was partly meant as a joke; and with your reply "no way, that's just for me and jake" I let that lie. The other part of that was that I wanted to just talk with you, to hear your voice, and it had been a long time since we chatted, so I wrote that message - as you said, so shoot me...

I know you hate hurting people and I appreciate that, but in the end this has hurt a lot more. If you had told me something to the effect "I think this coming over to meet me is making me uncomfortable, because you're too persistent - I like you as a friend, but I don't want to meet with you, at least not on my own or right now" I would have apologized right there and I would have learned to ease up with you. Instead I kept teasing you with it, and as I've said before, to jake and you, I believe, my common sense was just out of wack because of all the shit we talked about. I never saw it coming that you just did not want to talk to me, and when you wrote your "tired of the bullshit" I had no idea what you were getting on about, so it hurt.. to be honest, it really hurt. I was messed up all day from that and that's why I was so after getting a bigger reply after that. I felt as if I had been hit by a bus, because I truly considered you a friend.

About the trip to Texas. I did not get the impression that it was a disaster at all. She was a bit pissed with me for the boob grabbing, but it was only two days after she booted me because she had to tend to her father's funeral. In that two day span, everything was just dandy, I mean, she never gave any indication that it was so disastrous. Yes, the boobgrabbing was way over the line, we've been over that a million times and I've apologized as much as I can about it. The environment that they created was a factor in me doing it, it was not just "because I was drunk" - I wasn't THAT drunk, and I don't get grabby in general. When I am in good company, with people I consider friends, I can be quite dirty talking, sure, but I'm not a sexually offensive guy physically at all, I just followed their lead when they freaking made out on the porch I though, "well three can play that game" and did it. I know that was wrong, but that's the reason I did it. I didn't want to freak them out as bad as they clearly did, and they didn't do anything at the time, they just basically shrugged it off.

As we have discussed earlier, I portray myself here as pretty much myself - not completely, I take it to much larger extremes here, but mostly I'm just being myself.

Also I know that we have discussed your inability to find a woman. You yourself put it down to the fact that you had to get drunk to converse with them, and once that had happened you tended to become lewd and inappropriate, the drink was doing the talking

I think you are getting at this from a wrong angle. They are two different issues. One is that I don't have the nerve to approach strange girls, or really strangers altogether, but I loosen up when I get a beer in me. Most guys can relate to that, girls too, I would think. Second, I'm not lewd and inappropriate around people I don't know, even when I'm drunk, I only get like that around people that I like - as in if we're a bunch from my year on the university out getting smashed or something. The reason I got like that at bea's place the one night, was because I was having a good time and the three of them were good company. Yeah, I did swear to the three adults, but I never did so to any of her kids - I don't want to freak out kids, I don't really even like kids, but I think I behaved pretty well around her children in general, except for when we had that game of scrabble and I swore to iv or bea in casual conversation, when the little one had just snuck out from the bedroom. I was doing this partly to be intentionally teasing, because we had just had a discussion earlier about what one should and shouldn't say to kids. Bea had sworn as well earlier in casual conversation, so I did not take that as so terrible. Evidently, I was mistaken.

I never EVER said anything sexual to any of her kids. I'm appalled that she thinks that, because I don't do that.

The remark after the siftup was not aimed at you at all and I was perplexed that you saw it as such, because we didn't have any secrets at all. As we chatted on messenger about, I never intended it for you it was just a general remark to sifters.

Concerning rasch. I made it clear in private to you that I didn't like him. He was an obnoxious person and he should go suck a fuck. I still hold that opinion. If our roles had been reversed, I would have told YOU to take care of the situation, instead of interjecting myself as a fucking savior to get you poor women the rescue you so needed. That's because I'm a nice person, who don't put my own ego in front of everyone else's. The chat that he quoted between you and him seems to me to be pretty damn two-faced from you as well. You present yourself one way to me and another to him. That's not nice,, at all. I know exactly what he did and so does everyone else - it's plainly public. He acted like an aggressive brute trying to verbally punch me out in his comments. He attacked me way earlier than that as well, the comment you laughed about a while back, even though he did apologize for that afterwards. He deserves the tiny little corner of shame that he painted himself into.

The accusations made against me are many and plentiful (well, three in total counting boobgrabbing, gutter mouthing and your own), but I think it's a shame that yours and bea's have been muddled together, because they are really two separate issues.

I'm quite angry with bea still, because it's because of her that this has blown up and blown so out of proportion as it has. This was not my doing - any of you could have approached me privately and that could have been that - if you had explained what I had done wrong. All of you, except Cari, just ignored me and left me in the complete dark. Cari kept me on facebook and was in general like she always was, but said she didn't want to get involved when I asked what was up with bea, because she had removed me from facebook. I respected that and I still do - she acted the most like an adult. I think you are out of line to suggest why she apologized, but while you may or may not be right, she apologized none-the-less. And we are still friendly around each other, even though she is the one that was slighted the most. I'm not going to visit her in person, probably ever, but that doesn't mean that we can't be civil. I still think she's fun and a boon.

It's likely that she didn't actually forgive you at all and that she is too nice of a person to really come out and say what she thinks. I can relate.

You are being awfully passive-aggressive here and presumptuous. I would welcome her saying all she wanted to me in private if she wanted, but she already has - and we've patched things up as far as we could at this time. We're in a good place now both of us as far as I know.

Bea got blamed for everything justly in my opinion - I got my share of grizzly attacks too, which I feel terrible about, but I owned up to my fucking mistakes - she just shits on the floor and slams the door behind her. She has as much blame in this situation as I do and if she wants to flame out, as she did, then I have no interest in patching anything up with her. She was fun to talk to, if a big damn bit more crazy than you, for instance, but fun non-the-less. Not so much anymore. I acted pretty well over there and if she had issues with me, she could have just told me. We sat on her porch and talked while she smoked plenty of times and no indication at all. Her family and friends were never there except Cari and their friend Rick on that Tuesday with the boobgrabbing (and of course the kids, who I was very nice to).

Have I lied to you before? Honestly, ever? I've only ever been painfully truthful and if I wanted to just talk shit, wouldn't I have painted a much more rose-tinted version? I'm sorry you are taking her version, because it is far more skewed than mine is - and dammit, I ought to have deserved some trust with you.. we were friends!

I've reflected on this long and hard, I truly have, and I think I have learned from it as well. I've toned down my lewdness and I find myself holding my tongue more often than before. But not much else is to change, unless I want to be a completely different person, and all my friends seem to like me as I am just fine, so I don't want to change into something I'm not.

I've also learned that there are people in this world, who will fuck you over. I am not one of those people and I don't think you are either. We all make mistakes and misjudgments and I think you are misjudging me. I still would like to be your "friend" in some capacity, but you make it pretty clear you don't want that. I'm sorry you don't. I will consider myself as on friendly terms with you and if you do come back to the sift some time, then I will treat you respectfully and I hope you will do the same thing with me.

I still feel terrible about how all this happened and about how our friendship fell apart. :-/

Nicki.

PS. Incidentally, I have found a woman, who I am very glad for and who for some bizarre reason likes me a whole lot too, so I HAVE grown a bit at least.

In reply to this comment by alien_concept:
OK, first of all I want you to know, I happened upon this whole conversation between UP, rasch and yourself as I still visit now and again. Don't for one moment think that he's come crying to me.

If rasch was referring to anything creepy, then it wouldn't have been logs of conversations we've had, it would have been PM's. And also pointing out certain things you had written in threads, baiting me etc. Most of it was not private.

I wish I'd have come straight to you once everything had come out regarding bea, but honestly at that point I had already had enough of our relationship on here and had been avoiding talking to you for ages. Yes I'm a coward for not just straight up telling you things were bothering me. And yes, everything here could have been dealt with differently. The main reason for me not coming straight out and ever saying anything, was because I really felt that the way I carried on with you, that I had encouraged you. I am very open and broad minded. We have discussed numerous topics and I always came across like I was comfortable in anything we discussed. And for a long while I was.

Quite early on it became apparent that you had feelings for me. At this point I told you about myself and Jake, because I didn't want you to think that any relationship between us was possible. You will notice that Jake not once ever had a problem with the way we behaved around here or in fact on messenger. He just saw it all as a bit of fun and nothing to get possessive about. It was nothing to do with him, right? Because we were just friends, fooling around and being risque for a laugh.

The things that started bothering me were that you wouldn't let the coming here to see me lie. I'd give you a thousand excuses as to why it couldn't happen, at least not any time soon. But it was so regular, and the comments you made about how if you were Jake you'd have been here with me already (implying that he wasn't serious about me? that's kind of how it felt) and always with the questioning. Why did you have to wait til after he had been here, where do you live, what's your skype address (even though I told you that skype was only something I used for me and him). And telling me you'd found out how much it cost to get here etc etc. It built up and built up, and I didn't know how to tell you to back off without hurting your feelings entirely. I HATE hurting anyone, and like I said, I blamed myself for having not said anything before and letting it get to the point it was at, and potentially giving you mixed signals, by first telling you I was unavailable and then carrying on flirting with you (out in the open)and sharing graphic (although always sickly amusing) porn, and discussing other such personal subjects. I hadn't been careful, so instead of fronting it out with you, I ignored you. So shoot me...

When bea messaged me after you had left Texas, she did it not to gossip, but because your visit there had been a fucking disaster, she felt that you didn't understand any boundaries, you made her feel uncomfortable with the things you were coming out with and you had told her that you intended to come and see me. She felt like she had to warn me about how you had presented yourself there. The thing was, so many things rang true on what she was saying. That she hadn't outright invited you - just in the lounge she'd said off the cuff as she does, that yeah you should come to Texas one day, and the next thing she knew you'd booked tickets and she didn't have a clue how to say no. Well, you were relentless with me about coming here...

That you had made inappropriate sexual comments in front of her children. Well I remember one time you making one about my daughter too, something about when she came of age, blech. I took it as a joke, at the time although it didn't sit comfortably with me. Also I know that we have discussed your inability to find a woman. You yourself put it down to the fact that you had to get drunk to converse with them, and once that had happened you tended to become lewd and inappropriate, the drink was doing the talking. Now considering that you spent time there getting drunk and you definitely thought it was ok to grab IV's breast (btw, justifying that by saying that bea had just done it, what the fuck???) it didn't take much to come to the conclusion what with everything else that you were indeed not in your right mind. Whether you agree or not, that's how it all came about. It felt like the character you "played" on here, wasn't just a character after all. And that was fucking disturbing to me.

I sat on it forever. I wasn't going to bring any of it up because bea did not want the drama, and neither did IV. She also felt partly responsible for giving you the wrong idea about things because of the way she converses with everyone. And she didn't want it all to drag out like it has. But as I told you, after numerous PM's and references in video threads, then the limerick, and THEN what I truly felt to be another jab against me when you mentioned in the sift up thread that anyone who had secrets with you weren't secrets any more, I finally blew my lid. I just didn't want to be here any longer.

If you had have been on the outside of this looking in like rasch has been, I'm pretty sure that you would have, after all the evidence presented to you, felt that it needed to once and for all be addressed. I'm not saying he couldn't have gone about it in a better way, he definitely could. But then, so could we all have done, isn't that right? I'd like you to stop blaming him for everything now, it's somewhat projecting rather than really taking a look at how and why things have happened how they have. He has freely admitted that he should have been more discreet, and now he is just left defending his corner without really being able to say anything at all. Enough is enough.

I hope this explains what you have wanted to know. Whether you agree with the accusations made against you, they have been made. Not just by one person, but two and that's not including her family and friends who were around too I'm sure. IV apologised with you to keep the peace and not let it all get blown up publically like it has and to stop bea being blamed for everything like she was after she flamed out. It's likely that she didn't actually forgive you at all and that she is too nice of a person to really come out and say what she thinks. I can relate. I hope you reflect on all of this and you consider how things can end up, as have I on numerous occasions. And yes, it's your word against hers. Either of you could be talking shit. But I'm taking her version, as have people chosen to take yours.

Rae

^Of course I could. These quotes and records of church history are available all over the internet. But blacklds.org is a convenient source. I did in fact find some of those sources elsewhere, but I ultimately chose blacklds.org as a source because they had the most complete quotes, without portions paraphrased or left out.

I really was not trying to persuade anyone that Joseph Smith was a saint. I simply wished to explain that racism is not a doctrine of the church, as many have said. Smith did not organize a racist religion, but he did organize a tolerant religion in a racist country. When Mormons were baptizing blacks, other religions were preaching that they don't have souls. Of course that doesn't make up for all of the later intolerance and racism, but it is a cheap shot to single out Mormonism as an exceptionally racist or intolerant faith. Both religious and secular groups have the same kind of history in this country. It is unfortunate that the ban on blacks in the priesthood lasted as long as it did. I have no explanation for this. In fact, it especially perplexes me in view of how inclusive church members were toward blacks far before the ban was lifted.

Ultimately what I'm trying to say is that this guy's argument about the connection between Mormon racism and gay rights is flawed. Dallin Oaks has every right to cite the Civil Rights movement as an example without being called a hypocrite. He isn't racist, and neither is his church.

Holly Crap, An Amazing Fast Climb to Ruby!
As I said before...
Congrats...,

As Per http://www.rapdict.org/Jigga
Noun: Jigga
1. Jigga is a shortened form of the old racial epithet 'jiggaboo' commonly applied to African-Americans well into the 1970's.
2. Jigga is one of the many nicknames for Jay-Z, put Nigga and Jay-Z together and you get Jigga. "Y'all can never diss Jigga, get nothin for that" -- Jay-Z featuring Kid Capri (It's Like That) [1]
3. A less inflammatory alternate for the word nigga.
4. A Sifter on Videosift who likes his Johnson.

As Per http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jigga+What
jigga what
perplexed exclamation denoting confusion or surprise in reaction to another party's previous statement or action.
teacher: This paper should be 42 pages long.
student: jigga-WHAT?!
teacher: Jiggajohnson, that guy on Videosift!

Holly Crap, An Amazing Fast Climb to Ruby!
Congrats...,

As Per http://www.rapdict.org/Jigga
Noun: Jigga
1. Jigga is a shortened form of the old racial epithet 'jiggaboo' commonly applied to African-Americans well into the 1970's.
2. Jigga is one of the many nicknames for Jay-Z, put Nigga and Jay-Z together and you get Jigga. "Y'all can never diss Jigga, get nothin for that" -- Jay-Z featuring Kid Capri (It's Like That) [1]
3. A less inflammatory alternate for the word nigga.
4. A Sifter on Videosift who likes his Johnson.

As Per http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jigga+What
jigga what
perplexed exclamation denoting confusion or surprise in reaction to another party's previous statement or action.
teacher: This paper should be 42 pages long.
student: jigga-WHAT?!
teacher: Jiggajohnson, that guy on Videosift!

^There has to be some evidence somewhere for those intrigued or perplexed by "the power of prayer' that it is wholly ineffectual?! Perhaps honkeytonk73 can find it for everyone?

One morning 3 Alabama good old boys and 3 Yankees were in a ticket line at the Birmingham train station heading to Atlanta for a big football game. The 3 Northerners each bought a ticket and watched as the 3 Southerners
bought just one ticket among them.

"How are the 3 of you going to travel on one 1 ticket?" asked one of the Yankees.

"Watch and learn" answered one of the boys from the South.

When the 6 travelers boarded the train, the 3 Yankees sat down, but the 3 Southerners crammed into a bathroom together and closed the door. Shortly after the train departed, the conductor came around to collect tickets. He knocked on the bathroom door and said, "tickets please." The door opened just a crack and a single arm emerged with a ticket in hand.

The Conductor took it and moved on.

The Yankees saw this happen and agreed it was quite a clever idea. Indeed, so clever that they decided to do the same thing on the return trip and save some money. That evening after the game when they got to the Atlanta train station, they bought a single ticket for the return trip while to their astonishment the 3 Southerners didn't buy a single ticket!

"How are you going to travel without a ticket?" asked one of the perplexed Yankees.

"Watch and learn", answered one of the Southern boys.

When they boarded the train the 3 Northerners crammed themselves into a bathroom and the 3 Southerners crammed themselves into the other bathroom across from it.

Shortly after the train began to move, one of the Southerners left their bathroom and walked quietly over to the Yankee's bathroom. He knocked on the door and said "ticket please"!

This was my favorite scene so far in Season 2 of the show.

The Youtube comments however leave me perplexed, as they all seem to think that Godric's decision to turn Erik is sexually based, when nothing of the sort is implied through the dialog.

Is everyone homophobic? Is it because he says he will be his father, brother and child?

I don't need to look much beyond the Constitution, which says nothing about 'free' healthcare for all or robbing one group of people who worked hard to pay off others who didn't.

Bingo!

You treat the constitution like others (you perhaps also?) treat the bible... your one stop shop for everything. Everything begins and ends with one document and you'll be damned if any further discussion will be had because apparently that document is perfect. (Let's ignore the raft of amendments... they... um... just fine tuning and already perfect document aren't they?)

The Constitution limits government power and says any powers not expressly given to the federal mafia is given to the States. That balance is already long gone. If "you" wish to circumvent those limits, even and especially for "the common good", then you may as well admit you support a benevolent dictatorship where the thugs at the top can do anything they want as long as you FEEL they're doing the right thing, or they appear to be.

The Constiution is not a "living document" nor written on an Etch-a-Sketch. It is, however, simply ignored by the scum in the federal mafia. If an Amendment was needed to outlaw alcohol, why is there no proposed amendment mandating 'free' health care? Because the current shits are anarchists, or monarchists.

No one is saying that the US system is GOOD now at all. But what you DO have is the situation where private health companies are consulted BEFORE you get treatment to see if you will be covered for that treatment. THAT is absolutely insane.

And you're basing this massive dissatifaction on what, exactly? Or is the mythical "46 million" uninsured going to come out of the woodwork again?

Look, here in Australia we have public and private... public health guarantees you all the necessary health care you need, and you pay a levee on that in your taxes (Medicare levee), if you take out Private health care (as most do), then you don't have to pay that levee as you are paying your own way via the private insurer. You don't suddenly stop getting public health, just the hospitals get paid by the private insurer rather than the government. Also, private health care gives you elective benefits and better rooms in hospitals etc. (ie. your own room rather than shared). The deal is, you can get better 'extras' etc. surrounding core health care by being on private, but you never miss out on the necessary care by not being able to afford it... and that's the way it should be.

"But you never miss out on the necessary care by not being able to afford it."

You would be hard pressed to find average Americans dying in the streets due to a lack of health care. Like I wrote, 20 million illegal aliens seem to know where the emergency rooms are, even when the sign is written in English.

From wikipedia:

The health care industry is likely to be the most heavily regulated industry in the United States. A study published by the Cato Institute suggests that this regulation provides benefits in the amount of $170 billion but costs the public up to $340 billion.[159] The study concluded that the majority of the cost differential arises from medical malpractice, U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulations, and facilities regulations. Part of the cost is attributed to regulatory requirements that prevent technicians without medical degrees from performing treatment and diagnostic procedures that carry little risk.

It appears that once again, the soaring costs of medical care can be largely attributed to government interference. (And trial lawyers, but that's another story).


It's perplexing that numbers of people claim religion is evil yet believe that a true source of goodness is a government program which people are forced to enroll in at gunpoint. There's some confusion that this recent Obamunist government intrusion isn't the same as mandatory "universal halth care" but that's where it will end up. The camel's nose is poking into the tent.

I didn't wish harm on you. I wished destitution on you (which doesn't have to physically harm you at all, just take your ego down a few notches). I wished that you ended up with no money and therefore be reliant on the very things that you think shouldn't exist, because apparently you lack a iota of empathy and are incapable of ever seeing how someone could end up poor and without help and need some help to get back on track. Sometimes, for some people such as yourself, the only way to get through that 'it's other people' mentality is for it to affect you directly.

Yes, you wished harm on me, but that's due to your "left wing brainwaves"as the socialist believes that when one person wins, another must automatically lose; that's why the scramble for an "equality of outcomes" is so important. This isn't Dicken's "A Christman Carol" and I'm not Scrooge. And because not everyone agrees with your one-size-fits-all mentality on this or that issue does not mean they they're A) automatically wrong and B) in need of an ego resizing. Don't worry, I've had hard times aplenty.


Seems to me the only thing missing from your plan is personal responsibility. Are smokers or fat folks given less priority care or charged more in Australia? And forgive me in advance for going here, but at what point under the government system does some bureaucrat say, "Your child ain't gonna make it anyway because such-and-such condition has a 20% survival rate" and cut off treatment, or the more expensive treatments. From my point of view, you should at least entertain the idea that giving the government power over life and death when they can't even deliver the mail is a serious risk. They're serving you at their convenience and if they decide to cut you off, you're in a lot more trouble than some insurance company which can be sued.

You're making shit up that has nothing to do with my argument, so here it is again worded slightly different: is it the government's obligation to provide "free" basic everything ALL the time the way they claim to want to do with healthcare?

No, and no one is suggesting that the government should provide everyone with free everything.

There's a whole political system based on the idea that government should provide everyone with free everything, via the abolition of private property. And really, since no one is driving the train, it makes perfect sense for the communist to demand that everyone be fed for "free" all the time. Food is a more immediate and vital basic need than health care, isn't it? Even the healthy must eat to stay they way...so is "free" bread a 'right'?

What we're saying is access to healthcare should not be dictated by your bank balance. I, because I earn a good wage, should not be able to get a heart replacement if I need it, but let someone else die because they couldn't afford the operation. That just isn't right, and nowhere in the bible does it say anything about looking after only those who can afford it. In fact, I'm pretty sure it talks about taking care of the weak and needy.

Things cost money. Either you pay or someone else does. Your argument in a nutshell is that socialized medicine is less expensive, and in some ways---brace yourself---you might be right. As stated, I don't claim to have all the answers, but for America a completely government-run health care system (which is what the taxocrats are after) will be a disaster.

Um... you're several trillion dollars in debt for many, many reasons, not least of which is the trillions of dollars you spend on your damn military. You can't take anything you don't agree with and try to suggest THAT is why you're in debt... sorry, doesn't work.

The military is a tiny slice of the US budget compared to all the "free" social programs. We don't have the money to pay for all of the "free" goodies we have now, including Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Someone has to pay for all this stuff. Under socialized health care is it "fair" that the healthy guy with no major medical problems gets little return on his health care taxes while the fat smoker spends two years in a hospital bed before expiring?

And in regards to those that would have made it one way or another... not necessarily so at all, although you'd LOVE to think so, because that's the right wing brain.

"Successful people will always be successful with no help from anyone else". I said no such thing, but I will say this: government is the problem more often than not, and per your friend, your government system could just as easily and cheerfully kept him on the dole to suit its own purposes. Apparenlty he made a choice which brought him desired results. Which brings me to another point: some people are beyond helping, they will fk up everything all the time by constantly making the wrong choices no matter how much help you give them. There's no reason to hurt such people more than they hurt themselves, but there's also no reason to let them game the system forever.

Huh? You've given up again... you've obviously got some hardwired words in your brain that are 'bad':
'Socialism' = bad
'Big Government' = bad
without really thinking through what you're saying.

It must be cultural. Americans--the real ones--don't trust authority. Our government was founded by revolution and rebellion against the idea of kings, or ten thousand pint-sized would-be kings holding clipboards.

Saying that a government can turn around and deny care is, well ridiculous when you're comparing it to private companies that do it ROUTINELY. If government does it (please do give me examples where they have... hmmm? I can pull out stupendous amounts of private health examples)

Government consider plans to deny NHS treatment to smokers and obese

Anger over NHS restrictions for osteoporosis treatment

Vulnerable And Frail To Get Substandard Medical Care, Australia

Australia's health care system basically 'broke'

Left-wing socialist ideals have given you a certain perspective not shared by all. Your "culture", like many in the world, believes that the group is more important than the individual.

I'm sayin' that sooner or later, that belief will bite you on the buttocks, because the operators of such systems remain human. Less government = better.

The basis of the idea that every human being is entitled to "free" health care is a made-up "right" based on nothing. Even among the world's major religions' mandates to selflessly help others there is no call to establish gigantic government entities to take care of the public.

It's repugnant to suggest that because one does not fall to his knees in praise of The System, one then must automatically be for suffering or letting others starve.

Government is a necessary evil that creates nothing and can only take by force and shuffle around what already exists. The answers to the health care 'crisis' will be found among the people, not bureaushits.

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While sweeping floors is unskilled labour, I think I'd be affected more by having nobody clean the areas around where I lived than if the brain surgeons stopped their work. Without anyone removing rubbish all the time, the rat infestations and associated disease would probably harm and kill more people than brain surgeons save.

Don't underestimate the importance of core workforce like cleaners.

I'm not berating unskilled labor, but doesn't the medical student with half a million dollars in loans and 10 years of college study deserve more financial reward for their efforts? The socialist says, 'No, doctors' labor is a publicly-owned commodity whereas other occupations are not.'

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If an American with a serious illness that requires expensive treatment knocks on Canada's door seeking asylum, do they let him in? Any Canadian sifters, let me know.

Canada doesn't do asylum based on illness, that's reserved for other things. We do however bring people back into Canada from around the world who actually need medical care and can't get it in 2nd and 3rd world countries for treatment all the time. That aside, if you show up in Canada and require critical care for some emergency condition. You'll get it. Whether or not you'll have to pay for it(being that you're out of country and a non-payee into the system) is another question altogether different. Healthcare isn't free here either, that's where that 50% tax rate comes in along with country wide equalization payments. Since Canada already deals with Americans, and other foreign nations entering the country for healthcare, I'm sure you can figure out how much of a strain the puts on the system. And yes, there's a special division relating to healthcare fraud from non-Canadian nationals in every province.

Thank you for this information.

>> ^ReverendTed:
What young dobermen consider "fashionable" these days perplexes me to no end.
(Seriously, does anyone know what the deals are on his ears?)


unfortunately, people mutilate their ears like that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docking_%28dog%29