No doubt the votes are made politically (I mean, how can it not be? Albeit well deserved.) in support of Ukraine, regardless of the performance's own merit. However, Stefania is a great selection for the country. It's relatable on a human level as well as timely amid of the invasion. I hope Kalush Orchestra won't self-doubt the win as a sympathy vote.

I'm more concern about the outcome's consequence though... so EuroVision will held in Ukraine next year. And Zelensky mentioned that he hope it can be held in Mariupol? The logistic & security must be a major headache if the war drags on. Something need to "happen" to Putin pronto.

This is the performance at the venue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1fl60ypdLs

Seems they won Eurovision with this song. This was not the final performance but earlier in the contest from what i could gather.

https://www.history.com/news/the-hindenburg-disaster-9-surprising-facts ...

Goebbels wanted to name the Hindenburg for Adolf Hitler.
Eckener, no fan of the Third Reich, named the airship for the late German president Paul von Hindenburg and refused Goebbels’ request to name it after Hitler. The Führer, never enthralled by the great airships in the first place, was ultimately glad that the zeppelin that crashed in a fireball didn’t bear his name.

also...

Frau Eva von Zeppelin was offended by the group's name (Led Zepplin) for "dishonouring the family name". The direct descendant of Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin demanded the band to change their name. On 28th Feb, 1970, the group performed one show in Copenhagen as The Nobs but decided to retain their original name afterwards due to popular and critical opinions that favoured their original name.

https://www.thesound.co.nz/home/music/2018/09/Led-Zeppelin-Facts-2.html#:~:text=Frau%20Eva%20von%20Zeppelin%20was,band%20to%20change%20their%20name.

@newtboy,

Per my very first sentence in thread, I also oppose gov using this as a wedge issue to rally their base.

Meaning, I 100% am in agreement that nobody(gov or otherwise) should be banning trans kids(and adults) from anything, competitive sports included.

I did point out a single biological fact:
-Whether a person is born with XX or XY chromosomes has a significant impact on development that impacts performance in sports.

You jump all over that observation though, like raising it is hateful, denying peoples right to exist, and on. It is not.

And your observation that the performance advantages aren’t 100% of the time favouring XY folks is the red herring. Of course there are areas were the difference is an advantage, others were it’s neutral, and yet others a disadvantage. In a large population you also always have the possibility of individuals overcoming those odds.

Pointing to those facts though like they mean specific advantages don’t exist is the red herring.

In addition to that one fact, I also proposed applying the same standards for fairness in competition equally to everyone.

And it’s on this point I am automatically decried as hateful, evil and maliciously acting against people’s right to exist….

If your only looking for a villain to demonize there’s no point attempting further discussion.

@newtboy

“What genitalia you have has no bearing on your performance in sports”

I’m gonna try once to understand this. Are you saying you do not believe that people who are biologically male(By which I mean XY) have an advantage in athletics over people who are biologically female(by which I mean XX)?

If our disagreement is that fundamental there isn’t much sense to further discussion as we are viewing two entirely disjointed versions of reality.

Using people as a wedge is upsetting. I wish the right would stop, but their platform is based on mutual hatred of the “other”, so ostracism is a main tool for them.
Trying to secure the rights of Americans to compete in publicly funded sports is not creating a wedge, it’s being a civic American where tolerance and inclusion of those different from you is a cornerstone of our national identity.

No, that’s not common sense. It’s a red herring you would use to deny non binary people the right to participate. As I showed, divisions based on biological “sex” lead to men (biological women) like the boxer above fighting against girls. Is that more “fair”? Hardly.

Yes, trans people follow those rules, and must be hormone supplement free for years before being allowed to compete in most arenas. Non trans people have access to the same supplements, and also need to stop them before they can compete professionally. People naturally have different levels of hormones, we don’t force them to suppress or enhance them to compete, nor do we exclude those with medical needs for supplemented hormones…unless they’re trans. Red herring.

What genitalia you have has no bearing on your performance in sports, unless there are competitive orgies I’m unaware of.

One or two trans athletes being outstanding proves the point that there isn’t a noticeable advantage….otherwise every sport would be dominated by trans athletes….and that’s simply not the case. I bet statistical analysis would show trans athletes are not better, but worse on average than their non altered counterparts for many reasons.

Funny how denying a group their rights to participate (or exist?) in your eyes is “equality” and equitable.

Edit: How do you feel about hormone testing to decide which group you compete in? Too much testosterone, or not enough estrogen, compete with the “Ts”,…below the line on testosterone, or above the line on estrogen, compete with the “Es”. Or how about just separate by body mass index? Now is the problem solved? Do you concede that now the debate is settled? LMFAHS!!

In your biased, ignorant little mind it’s settled, not the real world where facts override your ignorant feelings and misconceptions and people’s rights to participate in publicly sponsored competition aren’t over ridden by ignorance and thinly veiled hatred.

🤦‍♂️

@newtboy,

1. Given how few people are affected, I'd love to see way less coverage of trans-sports as a wedge issue to rally political bases

2. Failing that, isn't it clearly 100% common sense that the Men's and Women's sports divisions are NOT divisions applied based upon gender but instead upon biological sex, and as such should always have been a non-issue.

3. I really can't see the issue, if it must be raised, as anything other than a request for special exemptions to be made. Existing competitive sports are divided based on biological sex and most have requirements around usage of drugs, hormones and other performance enhancing substances. We have existing and established testing for both the biological sex and PED requirements. Applying those equally to everyone IS equality.

/s There, now the debates all settled /s

The Lennon Sisters never performed in their bathrobes.

Back in my day...

100% agree. The reaction was more disturbing than the assault.
Haddish reverting to the mindset of the early 80’s to say Chris was calling Jada a lesbian, tacitly excusing Will’s physical attack, Jesus fucking Christ could you do more mental gymnastics!? Remember that little known independent film, Black Panther? Were those bald, fit women thought of as lesbians, or strong warrior women? WTF?!
Also, if she was right, is being called lesbian really an insult to Haddish in 2022? I don’t see it as insulting.

I think Will should see prison/jail time. He should be sentenced to the absolute maximum allowed by law, he, with every advantage and privilege possible, brutally assaulted a 57 year old man with a sucker punch/slap from Muhammad Ali (lest you forget Will’s size and training at throwing punches)...not just in public, but on an international broadcast. Then I think Chris should sue for $500 million for damage to his international reputation and career. It has to be an amount that hurts, not a few weeks work worth of pay.

Does anyone think Will’s bare minimum late apology is sincere, or that he deserves less punishment because of who he is, how much money he has, or because he eventually “apologized”?

Would he think so if Chris had slapped the shit out of Jada in public, then cursed her out during her performance?! (Don’t get all sexist, the size and power difference are similar.).
That should be the measure of damage IMO. If someone did the exact same thing to his loved one, what would Will think is an appropriate punishment? Guaranteed a fine and stern talking to wouldn’t satisfy, so it shouldn’t be on the table.

So a flag pops up as a reward for their performance?

I call animal cruelty!!

No, he lucked out, but Trump’s foreign policy was worse. He just capitulated to international thugs, cozied up to them except Iran. That’s why Ukraine was already occupied and Crimea recognized. It’s why N Korea advanced their capabilities so much. It’s why the Taliban gained so much power in 2020. He actually claimed China used biological warfare against us (utter bullshit, but his position), but made no moves against them in retaliation. No wars happen if you don’t oppose our enemies.

Biden isn’t my god, he’s far from perfect, he’s just an improvement. Being instrumental in opposing Assad gassing his own people is a bad thing? I was disappointed we didn’t depose him quickly with international support.

The Ukrainian parliament threw Yanukovych out in Feb 2014 on the grounds that he "has restrained himself from performing his constitutional duties" and effectively resigned. He had surprised everyone by abandoning an agreement made with Europe to be part of a free trade union, shocking the country, and instead intended to strengthen ties with Russia, and had been murdering protesters in the streets when he fled the country.

The people of Ukraine and Russia will suffer. Germany too. Probably all NATO nations….and all countries dependent on Russian aid.

My idea would have been to threaten Putin months ago that if one MORE Russian soldier or piece of military equipment crosses the border into Ukraine, we will fast track Ukraine into the UN immediately, permanently recognizing their actual borders, if he doesn’t send more military, we can negotiate peacefully with UN status on hold…and get solidarity with our allies on the plan. Maybe simplistic, but it’s what he fears, use it.

Performance art . . .

I agree with the above, this is just a dumb racist argument. Gu rode for China by choice, both because her parents are Chinese and because it was an excellent opportunity for her.

Does the poster believe we shouldn’t have any foreign born athletes on the American team? That’s going to remove some top athletes, @bobknight33.

Also, fuck China, why is the IOC kowtowing to Russia, who should be completely banned from competition for the next 40+ years after their state sponsored doping scheme was caught, not allowed to compete under a slightly different name, not allowed to compete even after testing positive for performance enhancing drugs? Not denying many others a medal because there are serious questions about Russia cheating again, but having no consequences for Russia!

Fuck the olympics. They’re so past their prime, are a loser for host countries, aren’t a fair sports organization or even close, is rife with abuse, fraud, and scandal…etc. It’s time to quit them.

America isn’t close to genocide, Bill? What about our native populations, many now extinct and more relegated to worthless areas with no services or resources. Remember forced re-education? Relocation? Extermination? Cultural genocide? Religious persecution? WTF happened to Bill? You know there’s an issue if Bob is on your side. America did everything we accuse China of doing to the Wiegers and more, and continues to do so to this day.
BTW, Bill….Hong Kong is part of China legally and historically, unlike Taiwan and Tibet.

Reminds me a lot of the rule that you can’t criticize Trump without severe consequences.

BTW. You know that violating the presidential records act, which Trump undeniably and admittedly, knowingly and intentionally did by stealing and hiding and destroying public presidential records, makes Trump ineligible for public office (and possibly eligible for 3 years in prison), right?

Please help make him the candidate in 24, to be replaced by Ted Cruz in mid October when he loses in court.

PS. Have you been properly instructed to be enraged at the hoodlums paraded out for the Super Bowl halftime show yet, hoodlems like billionaire Dr Dre, Mary J Blige, and Eminem? Way too….inner city for you? You know you’re supposed to be beside yourself that they didn’t have Ted Nugent and Kid Rock instead, right? The narrative is there were way too many black performers trying to entertain you with hyper sexual performances during your sports event (with nearly exclusively black players entertaining you). The far right media, Fox - OAN - newsmax are counting on you to be outraged.

Cat deserves an Oscar Mayer Wiener for that performance.