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Pasco police pursuing, and shooting, an unarmed man

newtboy says...

I could go along with that, but I don't think all 3 cops needed to empty their clips (or close to it) shooting to kill, especially when NO one saw a weapon, just arms flailing. That's text book definition of 'excessive use of force' in my eyes.

It's outrageous to me that not one of them had a taser, baton, or pepper spray out, and instead they all had their guns out ready to kill. It's inhuman to me that they always seem to think it's proper to kill rather than disable, and worse that they are supported in that contention by fellow officers AND the law (in many cases).

It's also outrageous and quite telling to me that they initially shoot at him 5 times as he's running/walking away with his hands completely visible. Apparently all those rounds missed the target and flew down the street where there were many bystanders. Absolutely no excuse for that part. That alone should get all 3 fired, or at least on desk duty until they all 3 pass a gun safety class.

All that said, I expect you are correct and this will be seen as 'justified' because...he had hands that might have had a gun in them? Sad but true.

I'm really starting to think we need to do what England did and stop allowing street beat cops to carry guns and only special weapon and tactics guys should have them, and they should be trained to not use them unless needed. These terrified bullies running around our country armed to the teeth with an immunity shield protecting them from consequence is not working.

lucky760 said:

Yes, @eric3579 is correct. This falls under the Sift's definition of snuff, so it has to be *discarded.

After viewing the video, though, I'd consider this a justified shooting because the suspect's hand went out of the officers' view (behind his body) and when it came back around he put his hands together as if attempting to fire a weapon.

lv_hunter (Member Profile)

cops pepper spray crowd

cops pepper spray crowd

siftbot says...

Tags for this video have been changed from 'cops, power trip, pepper spray, innocent bystanders' to 'Cops, bycicle, legs, black hat, pepper spray, female cop, male cop, brick building' - edited by BoneRemake

police shooting of mentally disabled man

ChaosEngine jokingly says...

That's not fair! There were only 7 or 8 police officers. There's no way they could have used a taser or pepper spray or even wrestled him to the ground.

newtboy said:

There's absolutely no way any SANE person can excuse that, the police had every opportunity to safely use non lethal force, but chose to use only lethal force

man pepper sprayed in his own home as "burglar"

lantern53 says...

Would have been instructive if the reporter had asked the officer or the chief to give their version of the events.

Pepper spray is not deadly, it's a nasty irritant. If the kid had followed directions, he would not have been pepper-sprayed.

I've been stopped numerous times by the police for traffic infractions and never once have I had a problem. My brother who used to drive OTR semis got stopped frequently and has never been arrested, never had his windows busted out.

If anyone viewing this website has had their windows busted out or gotten arrested for something improperly, I'd like to hear it.

What this country needs is a one day blue-flu, and we'll see what happens when everything is legal.

newtboy (Member Profile)

man pepper sprayed in his own home as "burglar"

speechless says...

Good report until "painful and frightening for the victims".
He forgot "deadly". As in dead. As in families burying someone. This insanity has to stop. "Pepper sprayed in his own home". I guess that's a lucky outcome for this guy.

newtboy (Member Profile)

Should drug-sniffing dogs be discredited

newtboy says...

That makes you an unbelievable piece of shit IMO. A dog is an animal, not a 'tool'. A living, breathing, feeling animal that trusts you to take care of it. You don't put an animal that you accept control over and the obligation to care for in a position where they protect you at the expense of their own life, especially when you have many other options. The dog doesn't understand the danger you put them in, they expect they're holding the person, just like when they trained. They've been trained to think they aren't hurting the person, and that there's no chance they'll be hurt back. In fact, they're trained to think they get a treat/play time afterwards, not knifed.
I'm so disappointed in you. Don't get a dog.
The next time you see a person with a knife/machete, how about back off and wait for Swat...or try your tazer, or pepper spray, or bean bags, or your car, etc.... You have many other options besides just putting a dog in danger for no reason other than you're scared and uncaring.

EDIT: Your statement, and the fact that it's how most cops seem to think, is proof positive that these 'tools' are misused more often than not, and are treated unconscionably by those that are supposed to care for them. I think the ASPCA and other anti-animal abuse organizations should band together to work towards removing K-9 units from service as they are terrible for the dogs they use without a thought for the dogs welfare.
Dogs naturally act like furry, stupid/dumb/mentally challenged, sweet children, and should be treated as such.

lantern53 said:

In police work, a dog is a tool. You can use any tool properly or improperly. If I were tasked with taking a person with a machete into custody, I would be happy to have a dog take a chance over a person risking their life.

bronx man beaten and arrested on video for no charge

lantern53 says...

The vast majority of people never have contact with police officers.

The vast majority of people who HAVE contact with police officers are treated civilly and go on with their lives.

The vast majority of people know that you don't give a bunch of shit to police officers. If you do, you take a chance on an outcome that won't make you happy.

The vast majority of people who are arrested on a weekly basis know that they will pay a small fine, or do a couple of days in jail, and take it as a cost of doing business.

A small number of police contacts end up with someone being treated for a bruise or cut, or a loose tooth, or pepper spray in the eyes.

A small number of police contacts end up dead and the vast majority of them instigated the violence.

You people expect cops to act perfectly, have the negotiating skills of Henry Kissinger, the compassion of Mother Theresa and the patience of Job, the martial skill of a UFC fighter, and the targeting skill of Annie Oakley, when what you should be doing is looking at your own behavior and seeing how that leads to your own fate.

bronx man beaten and arrested on video for no charge

newtboy says...

No other comment...I'll take that as concession that I'm right about all that. Thanks

OK, lets discuss the video then.
If there had been no video, what do you think would have happened to this poor 'suspect'? I say he might not be seen again, at least for decades. He was on probation/parole (the cops didn't know that), accosted over nothing, searched for nothing (with nothing found on him), arrested for nothing, beaten mercilessly for nothing with deadly objects and pepper sprayed while prone on the ground with cops on his back, then charged with assault on a police officer (obvious lie) and resisting arrest (another obvious lie, there was no resistance, only compliance that wasn't fast enough for the gang of thugs...I mean cops...and absolutely no reason ever given for the original arrest they claim he resisted in the first place). Without the video, he would be in jail for the next few months (minimum) awaiting trial where he would then have to dispute the multiple officers lies (claiming he assaulted and resisted). Who would the courts believe, 6-8 cops or one felon? I think we all know the unfortunate answer to that question. Sadly, because people like me are honest enough to admit we can't believe a word that a cop says (you're all trained to lie in the performance of your duties, and once a liar always a liar) I never serve on a criminal jury, leaving only jurors that will believe cops and liars on juries....which is not a good outcome.

It's easy to say 'just fight it in court' when you are part of a group that is considered 'truthful' by courts, contrary to all evidence. Single private citizens contradicting numerous officers (lies) without video proof that the cops are lying have no chance in court. You know this.

EDIT: there are requirements for arrest, requirements that cops ignore constantly or fabricate, as in this case.

lantern53 said:

I thought we were discussing the video.

Vivid imagination, though.

Why I Don't Like the Police

lantern53 says...

jeez, there's more casual violence in the average flag football game than there were in my 30 years of LE experience.

Also, you don't use your gun as a club, get real.

Dying from pepper spray? Unlikely, but people have died from being handcuffed. I've seen dead people who died while taking a nap, people in their 30s. There is risk in everything. Kids die from choking on breakfast cereal. Whattya gonna do?

I remember picking up this dude at the county jail, had some kind of breathing apparatus on him. I put him in back of my cruiser and the a/c was barely working and wasn't reaching the back seat at all, real hot day. I'm watching him in the mirror and he's fading. I thought, good god, this guy could die back there. So I pulled off the freeway and opened the door. 'Get in the front!'. I put the vents on him and he started coming around and before long we were talking football.
Of course, you won't see any video of that.

Why I Don't Like the Police

VoodooV says...

you were doing so well until you resorted to ad homs again.

pepper spray can't hurt you? tell that to the people who have died from it: http://articles.latimes.com/1995-06-18/news/mn-14572_1_pepper-spray-manufacturer.

There's a reason it's called less-than-lethal. Suppose you're going to next claim a taser never killed anyone? Look, I can't blame cops for using pepper spray, the risks are far outweighed by the potential benefits, but know your facts.

once again you demonstrate that you are so comfortable with casual violence that you're indifferent to the harm you can do.

lantern53 said:

I never fired my weapon at anyone. That is the general experience of the vast majority of police officers. In fact, in 30 years, I can think of about 2 instances of cops on my dept shooting at someone. Any cop who shoots at someone on the job is the exception, not the rule.

Also, pepper spray won't hurt you, it's only an irritation, like being called a fuckface on videosift or trying to have an intelligent conversation with voodoo.

Why I Don't Like the Police

newtboy says...

Well, that's good, but firing your gun is not it's only use. I meant how many times did you brandish/aim your gun at a 'suspect' when lesser 'force' would have sufficed? (and how many times did you use it as a club?)

LOL!
Yes, the fact that it won't 'hurt' you is the point, it's only needed to slow you down enough to be controlled. I would think it would work for that purpose FAR better than brandishing a gun, especially since, if it must be used, no one need die with pepper spray, and there's usually backup on that rare occasion that it doesn't do the job (agreed, not always, but usually). It makes sense that less lethal force should be the first thing tried, not an after thought (or not used at all). Cops are paid and trained to face that danger, not to pawn the danger off on the 'suspect' (which often turns out to be an innocent citizen wrongly suspected and feared).

lantern53 said:

I never fired my weapon at anyone. That is the general experience of the vast majority of police officers. In fact, in 30 years, I can think of about 2 instances of cops on my dept shooting at someone. Any cop who shoots at someone on the job is the exception, not the rule.

Also, pepper spray won't hurt you, it's only an irritation, like being called a fuckface on videosift or trying to have an intelligent conversation with voodoo.



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