So, if playing Call Of Duty means you can't hug/love your family, doesn't military service mean the same thing to a much greater degree, so logically those that have served in the military should be shunned and feared?

That was some serious ridiculousness and baseless, fact free, illogical arguments coming from 3/4 of the panel.
*quality interjection of a tiny bit of fact and reason by Penn

@transmorpher

It's a little difficult to 'debate' your comment, because the points that you address to me are numbered but don't reference to specific parts of my post. That's probably my fault as i was releasing frustration haphazardly and sarcastically, and that sarcasm wasn't aimed at you. All i can do is try and sum up whether i think we agree or disagree overall.

Essentially everything is a question of 'taste', even for you. There's no escaping our nature, most of us don't drink our own piss, many of us won't swallow our own blood, almost all of us have a flavour that we can't abide because we were fed it as a child. So yes, our decisions are defined by taste. But taste is decided by the food that is available to people, within reasonable distance of their house, at a price they find affordable according to the society around them, from a range of food that is decided by society around them. Your average person does not have the luxury to walk around a high street supermarket selecting the most humane and delicious foods. People get what they can afford, what they understand, what they can prepare and what is available. Our ancestors ate chicken because of necessity of their own kind, their children are exposed to chicken through no fault of their own, fast forward a few generations, and thus chicken becomes an affordable, accessible staple. Can we reach a compromise here? It may not be necessary for chickens to die to feed the human race, but it may be necessary for some people to eat chicken today because of their particular life.

I don't like the use of the phrase 'if i can do it, i know anyone can'. I think it's a mistake to deal in certainties, especially pertaining to lifestyles that you can't possibly know about without having lived them. Are you one of the many homeless people accepting chicken soup from a stranger because it's nourishing, cheap and easy for a stranger to buy, and keeps you warm on the streets? Are you a single mother with coeliac disease, a grumpy teenager and picky toddler who has 20 minutes to get to the supermarket and get something cooking? Or one of the millions using foodbanks in the UK (to our shame) now? I don't think you're willfully turning a blind eye to those people, i'm not tugging heart strings to do you a disservice. Maybe you're just fortunate you not only have the choice, but you have such choice that you can't imagine a life without it. I won't budge an inch on this one, you can't know what people have to do, and we have to accept life is not ideal.

And within that idealism and choice problem we can include illnesses that once again in IDEAL situations could survive without dead animals, nevertheless find it necessary to eat what they can identify and feel safe with.

Yes, those damn gluten hipsters drive me round the bend but only because they make people think that a LITTLE gluten is ok, it makes people take the problem less seriously (see Tumblr feminism... JOKE).

I agree that we must look at what action we can take now - and that is why i keep reminding you that we are not in an ideal world. If the veganism argument is to succeed then you must suggest a reasonable pathway to go from how we are now to whatever situation you would prefer. My "ideal farm" description was just me demonstrating the problem - that you need to show us your blueprint for how we start again without killing animals and feeding everyone we have.

And on that subject, your suggestions need to be backed by real research, otherwise you don't have any real plan. "It's fair to say there is very little risk" is a nice bit of illustrative language but it is not backed by any fact or figure and so i'm compelled to do my Penn and Teller impression and call bullshit. As of right now, the life expectancy of humans is better than it has ever been. It is up to you to prove that changing the diet of 7 billion people will result in neutrality or improvement of health and longevity. That proof must come in the form of large statistical analyses and thorough science. I don't want to sound like i'm being a dick, but any time you state something like that as a fact or with certainty, it needs to be backed up by something. I'm not nit picking and asking for common knowledge to have a citation, but things like this do:

-- 70% of farmland claim
-- 'fair to say very little risk' claim
-- meat gives you cancer claim - i accept it may have a carcinogenic effect but i'll remind you so does breathing, joss-sticks, broccoli, apples and water
-- 'the impact to the planet would be immense' claim - in what way, and what would be the downsides in terms of economy, productivity, health, animal welfare (where are all the animals going to be sent to retire as of day 1?)
-- etc. etc.

Oh, and a cow might get its protein from plants, but it walks around a field all day eating grass, chewing the cud and having sloppy shits with 4 stomachs and enzymes that i don't have................. I'm a bit puzzled by this one... I probably can't survive on what an alligator or a goldfish eats, but i can survive on parts of an alligator or fish. I can't eat enough krill in a day to keep me going, but i can let a whale do it for me...?

You have been awarded 1 Power Point for fixing the embed code for Dead Pool video Penn Says: Legalize Marijuana. Thank you for helping maintain VideoSift's reliability.

Heh, that's exactly what I thought, too. Although Penn is all skinny now, so this must be an old video.

Your video, Penn & Teller - Can They Split a Bullet With a Butter Knife, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Penn and Teller are the new Mythbusters?

Actually, that was pretty cool. Might consider a title change, gives the result away when the video itself is slightly more cagey about it.

I also chose the four of clubs. What the fuck? Need to get Penn and Teller in on this shit.

That there are two american talk show hosts called Jimmy causes a real problem for me, given that like everybody else I bet, I can't be bothered to remember which is which. Is Jimmy Kimmel the good one? Oh yeah, then Jimmy Fallon must be the worthless sack of shit.

He does a better Pacino. I just rewatched Carlito's Way. It's alright, not as good as Heat but still pretty good. Fucking Sean Penn..!

Yeah, they used some very easy method to pull this off, no matter which way they did it. I can think of a few ways to do it. It's made incredibly easy to do, as well, due to the fact that Teller is allowed to get in it first and also that the bag never leaves it's origin (at the setup anyway--it doesn't matter after Teller is out).

I would use the "bag within a bag" type setup. Essentially when Teller gets in, there is already an opening at the bottom (with the stage sitting right there). Teller is standing on the stage, basically. With the second hole pulled up past him and cinched shut once Penn closes the other end (stopping helium from getting out).

Then they flash out the lights, and Teller merely pushes the bag off him, and making sure to cinch any slack off the bottom so it doesn't "droop" or look bigger than it should--if that was even needed (as they may have put a mild adhesive on the ground to keep the bag in place; Teller can also do it, but it's easier the other way).

It does make for a nice illusion.

Your video, Penn & Teller's Helium Bag Escape Trick, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

I remember a VHS tape my father owned, made by Penn & Teller to allow you to perform magic tricks with your friends. It was made way back in the early 90's and when they were doing things on Showtime, I believe. It required you to do the same thing you've just mentioned to successfully pull off the trick.

Anyway, as I just mentioned, the tricks on that VHS tape were done the same as what you described. You "must" take the word of whomever you're listening to as "the truth". Because if they do lie, about certain elements, a trick can be performed by them and you may never be able to figure out how the trick is done. Unless you realize that someone you off-handedly let tell you a "fact" and you automatically allowed this "fact" to be the truth without any scrutiny, is finally re-looked at to see if it's validity still holds up.

Penn & Teller have you perform this same "trick" or psychological manipulation in their VHS tape magic trick to use on others and as you mentioned we are assuming that Penn & Teller are indeed on the up & up when another person on their show performs a magic trick... If they lie to us, as you mentioned, a trick can automatically be accomplished since we've given Penn & Teller a "free pass" to tell us whatever they want.

As you mentioned Penn & Teller do in fact use this methodology to perform some of their tricks and as I mentioned they even sold "magic tricks" that used this very same idea to create a magic trick or an illusion. So I wouldn't put it past them that they may indeed use this same thing on their own TV show...

We just have to hope they won't.

This might interest you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y3jUoNBreE&feature=youtu.be

The harsh reality is that this is TV, and you only have the word of Penn and Teller that it's all honest and as it seems. Penn and Teller are famous for making people believe things that aren't true...

Penn Talks About Being Fooled by Kostya Kimlat on Fool Us : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuKail7Jwwg from http://www.reddit.com/r/Magic/comments/3hf1h3/penn_teller_fool_us_kostya_kimlat_makes_penn_mad/cuayro2

I guess it's age. :-\

In last week's episode they did the cups and balls bit and it's so embarrassingly obvious when Penn reaches into his coat pocket to pull out a ball.