It's not porn until we take it in as porn.

That being said, you can take anything and turn it into filth.

Washington monument is a giant erect penis. The liberty bell is a big condom with a little rip. The lady justice of the supreme court suggests S & M, etc etc.

>> ^K0MMIE:

1) The way of judging whether or not a video stays is if you, a MAN, get an erection after watching. When was the last time a woman's perspective was taken into consideration? Never. Chances are women either feel objectified or get irritated for whatever reason watching a video like the one that prompted this post. I know I did. But because someone with a vagina posted it and the rest of the boys like it, it won't be removed. The thumbnail blares her breasts across the front page (or did for several hours yesterday), forcing me to not visit the front page at all either at work or at home, because I don't want my boss or my parents walking over and seeing that, and yet no one has felt the need to change it. If I could, I would.
K0MMIE's RESPONSE: You feel the human body is a shameful, and sexual activity should be repressed. Sorry we men like talking about our feelings, even if those feelings are carnal.

I don't feel the naked body is "a shameful" at all. I make money off other people's sex lives. I've been a sex educator since my freshman year of high school, and I have been a Passion Parties consultant since I was 18 - I help women in every aspect of their lives, from a college girl wondering why her boyfriend is incapable of ejaculation unless he's masturbating, to the 74-year-old woman wanting something to help her with Kegel exercises.

Though I certainly don't get where you came up with "You feel the human body is a shameful" from "The thumbnail blares her breasts across the front page and I don't want [anyone] walking over and seeing that."


2) Go take a look at some of the comments thepinky listed earlier, or any comments on a video where the woman is hot, or a stripper, or that stupid Wii Fit video... any of them. That is another reason I've grown to dislike the Sift. I joined for the discussion, not for the videos. I don't have a working TV in my house. I have never gone to see a movie in theaters that I have paid for, and the only DVDs I own were gifts. Do I give a shit about the videos? As a general rule, no. If I see something that I feel objectifies women, yes. But the discussion - is there anything to discuss with a bunch of pigs? No. Form intelligent discussion, please.
K0MMIE's RESPONSE: Anything to discuss with a bunch of pigs? I'm a pig now? At least we get out of the house a bit. I guess I have nothing in common with a crazy cat lady who has a bad case of cabin fever.


Oh, please. Anyone can tell from looking at the discussion on any video that the site is dominated by men. On a documentary I was honestly excited to see on here [and hoped would prompt some discussion, at least among the ladies], the first comment? "oOOh, Honkers!!!" And a few down: "T*ts or GTFO." And comments like yours earlier - "Shut up and show me your boobies." If the aim of the admins is to make the site more gender-friendly, I honestly don't believe it'll happen. "Boys will be boys," and no one's going to stop them. After a while, pretending to ignore all the shit gets old.


3) Sausage fests promote and encourage nasty man behavior - something that would never be acceptable at home. For all the men who watched and voted for that video, how do you think your girlfriend would feel if she came home and saw you watching some other woman's breasts bouncing around your screen? I'll tell you. Pissed. Irritated. Livid. Betrayed. Hurt. Just because it doesn't give you a raging erection doesn't mean it's not porn, or that it is in the least bit acceptable.
K0MMIE's RESPONSE: See, again you're assuming our better half's are sexually repressed and terrified of their own naked body. Mine's not. None of my friends are either. My gf saw the thumbnail, watched the video, and enjoyed it. Don't assume everyone has your values, and we should be judged by them as well. This is the internet, and until some politician decides otherwise, you're gonna get ALL our opinions, not just the ones that you think are worth hearing.

Fine. I'm not asking for opinions to be filtered. I'm just trying to share my own and getting shot down by someone who apparently doesn't want to hear mine, but will tear it apart and give me his.

I'm also not assuming anything about your girlfriend's values. I used the phrase "came home" because since most of the guys on here are at least well into their twenties and many of them talk about families, I assumed most of you had found someone to settle down with, or were at least living with a girlfriend. If that's not the case, you can completely ignore that last point. When you're living on your own, do what you want. But when you make the sacrifice and move in with someone, you're a fool if you believe your wife/girlfriend is okay with coming home to find you watching some woman strip, regardless of how poorly it was executed. That's what I was trying to convey.



I wouldn't complain if everything with the NSFW tag that wasn't tagged that way because of language was taken off the Sift. Those stupid videos have caused enough problems in my personal life.
K0MMIE's RESPONSE:The fact that a video on a fucking web site has caused you personal life problems, says it all. Turn of the glow box with the klik-klak keys, and do something else.


Maybe I shouldn't have worded it that way. But boys will be boys, as all of you have clearly shown at one time or another on this site. And as I said before, sausage fests promote and encourage nasty man behavior. There are things I've seen said on here that I never would've expected from people I know.

thepinky said
>> ^thepinky:
This is soft porn. Can somebody please do something about this? I come to videosift so that I don't have to deal with this type of disgusting objectification of women. Come on, guys.
And LadyDeath, WTF?!


Calling it softporn, she wanted it removed. she turned the comments into a debate about whether or not it was porn being poste

A debate, sure if its a hot topic - but on the video itself asking the clip be pulled and calling out WTF to the poster, thats just bullshit.


In reply to this comment by LittleRed:
Yeah, it is getting out of hand. And if you actually read, thepinky is not calling out your girlfriend. She's just saying she finds it offensive and wishes it wouldn't be there. If it was an attack as you claim, you wouldn't be the only one that said something along those lines. This is a debate over whether it is objectifying women, not whether it should've been posted.

As far as your girlfriend goes, that was the lowest possible blow she could've dealt. You and she may not care, but because of that, she will never have my respect, and I'm sure several people here agree.

In reply to this comment by Zonbie:
>> ^direpickle:
^LadyDeath:
Wow, that was really uncalled for.


This is getting outta hand

ThePinky - stop singling out LadyDeath for posting Burlesque - its not porn. I am getting sick of people objecting to art because its offensive. It's NSFW because some may find it inappropriate - erotica has existed for centuries - if you find it offensive then don't watch but singling out one user for posting it is not right.

Videosift is not policing its content because that would daage the sift, but individuals can block content if they wish.

Also, it's insulting to Dita to say she is being exploited; its her art and profession.
You could argue she exploits the carnal instincts of her audience - but thats a different story.

>> ^LittleRed:
>> ^dag:
I like women and I don't want VideoSift to be a lopsided gender mutant sausage fest.
Any ideas on how to accomplish this?

Honestly, I've got nothing. It already is a sausage fest. I am more than willing to give you a list of problems I have with the site, though.
1) The way of judging whether or not a video stays is if you, a MAN, get an erection after watching. When was the last time a woman's perspective was taken into consideration? Never. Chances are women either feel objectified or get irritated for whatever reason watching a video like the one that prompted this post. I know I did. But because someone with a vagina posted it and the rest of the boys like it, it won't be removed. The thumbnail blares her breasts across the front page (or did for several hours yesterday), forcing me to not visit the front page at all either at work or at home, because I don't want my boss or my parents walking over and seeing that, and yet no one has felt the need to change it. If I could, I would.


Ok, i have to chime in here, as i'm part of the VS story of "Dag wood test". VS has many stories, and i played only i minor role in this one as it's a community. But anyway...

The story starts here:

>> ^dag:
Definitely not porn - it passes the wood test with me. No wood is all good.
But seriously, is he trying to say that they grew their pubic hair to those lengths? Some looked to be a bout 4 feet. Surely they were extensions?


I was amused by the idea, and comment. Dag hapens to be male, and is also a rather significant admin of the site. It being his (and luckys etc). .'. if a discusion is being had about somethings acceptability, an admin stepping in judge like to both give guidance and acknowledge a need for a descision is not unreasonable. Funadmentaly, the buck does stop somewhere and as MINK ocasionaly once pointed out, this isnt a democracy.

I found the comment amusing. When a it later, another vid was posted, i quized Dag as to it's passing his wood test (which i belive it did) in a toung in cheek fashion. The phrase stuck, grew a bit further, and has been refered to a few times in a few discussions. Like the kungfu porn one, that raged, and it got discarded in the end. That was an interesting discusion.

As for "When was the last time a woman's perspective was taken into consideration? Never." seriously, that "never" is utter rubish. Many females have given their views and been lsitened too. Not just persephones, but many, and persephones always stood as an indivual, as she and dag did not always agree (i belive their responses to the kung fu vid may have varied, but i dont recall specifics).

Anyway, that Never is reactionary, and has no basis in fact. a little effort would show that. Men dont always agree with other men, just as women dont always agree with other women. we are all people, individuals, and are views are as like and unlike as leaves on the wind. The burlesque thread had strong female comments on both sides of the issiue.

If you truly belive that "never" coment, and think im talking crap, I'll hunt out that other thread.

>> ^LittleRed:

Honestly, I've got nothing. It already is a sausage fest. I am more than willing to give you a list of problems I have with the site, though.
1) The way of judging whether or not a video stays is if you, a MAN, get an erection after watching. When was the last time a woman's perspective was taken into consideration? Never. Chances are women either feel objectified or get irritated for whatever reason watching a video like the one that prompted this post.

I'd say the reason for the "wood test" is because 99.99999% of porn is made to arouse men.
Therefore, if (the majority, if not all of) men are not aroused, then I think that means it's not porn.

Someone mentioned elsewhere (I think it was Farhad) romance novels. I would say that if a woman would be upset by her boyfriend watching this, then her guy should be just as, if not more pissed about them reading dirty romance novels.
Those things can be on par with some nasty Penthouse Forum "letters".

The video in question (Dita) is an act of grace a beauty, not a vivid depiction of sex. The act is designed to be something that one merely watches, from which they are detached and it is forever that way. It is a solo act meant to please for the sake of a good show.

Dirty books, on the other hand, are of a couple's acts in the bedroom, written to suck the reader into the characters words and actions, even letting them place themselves into the character's shoes. The book is more about being a part of the act, making the reader imagine (through ample use of details and adjectives) every part of sex. It's porn you read, and not watch, though I will say it is not disgusting or objectifying as real porn.

My question to you is this: How can you tell the internet in one comment that "Even I can appreciate burlesque"

but in the next, tell the internet that it's not acceptable for men with significant others to watch it, if only for art of the performance?

I hold that burlesque is only that; an art. I personally don't get any arousal from it, not does it raise any carnal desires within myself. Hell, I've only seen two instances of it, both here on the sift. The female body, with all it's curves, is designed to flow like water in almost all directions. Combined with graceful movements and a dynamic act, it is a thing of grace and beauty.

The male body is usually ugly from an artistic standpoint. It has lots of hard edges, and is not visually streamlined with gentle curves. I believe that's why you don't see any form of male burlesque.

>> ^LittleRed:
>> ^dag:
I like women and I don't want VideoSift to be a lopsided gender mutant sausage fest.
Any ideas on how to accomplish this?

Honestly, I've got nothing. It already is a sausage fest. I am more than willing to give you a list of problems I have with the site, though.
1) The way of judging whether or not a video stays is if you, a MAN, get an erection after watching. When was the last time a woman's perspective was taken into consideration? Never. Chances are women either feel objectified or get irritated for whatever reason watching a video like the one that prompted this post. I know I did. But because someone with a vagina posted it and the rest of the boys like it, it won't be removed. The thumbnail blares her breasts across the front page (or did for several hours yesterday), forcing me to not visit the front page at all either at work or at home, because I don't want my boss or my parents walking over and seeing that, and yet no one has felt the need to change it. If I could, I would.
K0MMIE's RESPONSE: You feel the human body is a shameful, and sexual activity should be repressed. Sorry we men like talking about our feelings, even if those feelings are carnal.
2) Go take a look at some of the comments thepinky listed earlier, or any comments on a video where the woman is hot, or a stripper, or that stupid Wii Fit video... any of them. That is another reason I've grown to dislike the Sift. I joined for the discussion, not for the videos. I don't have a working TV in my house. I have never gone to see a movie in theaters that I have paid for, and the only DVDs I own were gifts. Do I give a shit about the videos? As a general rule, no. If I see something that I feel objectifies women, yes. But the discussion - is there anything to discuss with a bunch of pigs? No. Form intelligent discussion, please.
K0MMIE's RESPONSE: Anything to discuss with a bunch of pigs? I'm a pig now? At least we get out of the house a bit. I guess I have nothing in common with a crazy cat lady who has a bad case of cabin fever.
3) Sausage fests promote and encourage nasty man behavior - something that would never be acceptable at home. For all the men who watched and voted for that video, how do you think your girlfriend would feel if she came home and saw you watching some other woman's breasts bouncing around your screen? I'll tell you. Pissed. Irritated. Livid. Betrayed. Hurt. Just because it doesn't give you a raging erection doesn't mean it's not porn, or that it is in the least bit acceptable.
K0MMIE's RESPONSE: See, again you're assuming our better half's are sexually repressed and terrified of their own naked body. Mine's not. None of my friends are either. My gf saw the thumbnail, watched the video, and enjoyed it. Don't assume everyone has your values, and we should be judged by them as well. This is the internet, and until some politician decides otherwise, you're gonna get ALL our opinions, not just the ones that you think are worth hearing.
I wouldn't complain if everything with the NSFW tag that wasn't tagged that way because of language was taken off the Sift. Those stupid videos have caused enough problems in my personal life.
K0MMIE's RESPONSE:The fact that a video on a fucking web site has caused you personal life problems, says it all. Turn of the glow box with the klik-klak keys, and do something else.

Yeah, it is getting out of hand. And if you actually read, thepinky is not calling out your girlfriend. She's just saying she finds it offensive and wishes it wouldn't be there. If it was an attack as you claim, you wouldn't be the only one that said something along those lines. This is a debate over whether it is objectifying women, not whether it should've been posted.

As far as your girlfriend goes, that was the lowest possible blow she could've dealt. You and she may not care, but because of that, she will never have my respect, and I'm sure several people here agree.

In reply to this comment by Zonbie:
>> ^direpickle:
^LadyDeath:
Wow, that was really uncalled for.


This is getting outta hand

ThePinky - stop singling out LadyDeath for posting Burlesque - its not porn. I am getting sick of people objecting to art because its offensive. It's NSFW because some may find it inappropriate - erotica has existed for centuries - if you find it offensive then don't watch but singling out one user for posting it is not right.

Videosift is not policing its content because that would daage the sift, but individuals can block content if they wish.

Also, it's insulting to Dita to say she is being exploited; its her art and profession.
You could argue she exploits the carnal instincts of her audience - but thats a different story.

>> ^dag:

I like women and I don't want VideoSift to be a lopsided gender mutant sausage fest.
Any ideas on how to accomplish this?


Honestly, I've got nothing. It already is a sausage fest. I am more than willing to give you a list of problems I have with the site, though.

1) The way of judging whether or not a video stays is if you, a MAN, get an erection after watching. When was the last time a woman's perspective was taken into consideration? Never. Chances are women either feel objectified or get irritated for whatever reason watching a video like the one that prompted this post. I know I did. But because someone with a vagina posted it and the rest of the boys like it, it won't be removed. The thumbnail blares her breasts across the front page (or did for several hours yesterday), forcing me to not visit the front page at all either at work or at home, because I don't want my boss or my parents walking over and seeing that, and yet no one has felt the need to change it. If I could, I would.

2) Go take a look at some of the comments thepinky listed earlier, or any comments on a video where the woman is hot, or a stripper, or that stupid Wii Fit video... any of them. That is another reason I've grown to dislike the Sift. I joined for the discussion, not for the videos. I don't have a working TV in my house. I have never gone to see a movie in theaters that I have paid for, and the only DVDs I own were gifts. Do I give a shit about the videos? As a general rule, no. If I see something that I feel objectifies women, yes. But the discussion - is there anything to discuss with a bunch of pigs? No. Form intelligent discussion, please.

3) Sausage fests promote and encourage nasty man behavior - something that would never be acceptable at home. For all the men who watched and voted for that video, how do you think your girlfriend would feel if she came home and saw you watching some other woman's breasts bouncing around your screen? I'll tell you. Pissed. Irritated. Livid. Betrayed. Hurt. Just because it doesn't give you a raging erection doesn't mean it's not porn, or that it is in the least bit acceptable.

I wouldn't complain if everything with the NSFW tag that wasn't tagged that way because of language was taken off the Sift. Those stupid videos have caused enough problems in my personal life.

>> ^direpickle:
^LadyDeath:
Wow, that was really uncalled for.


This is getting outta hand

ThePinky - stop singling out LadyDeath for posting Burlesque - its not porn. I am getting sick of people objecting to art because its offensive. It's NSFW because some may find it inappropriate - erotica has existed for centuries - if you find it offensive then don't watch but singling out one user for posting it is not right.

Videosift is not policing its content because that would daage the sift, but individuals can block content if they wish.

Also, it's insulting to Dita to say she is being exploited; its her art and profession.
You could argue she exploits the carnal instincts of her audience - but thats a different story.

Hm, I go to sleep, and I wake up to all of this...
well I think its all been said, this isn't porn - and it does not objectify women - in fact its a good example of art against porn - its just a shame some people think if you show your boobs or the full exposed shape of your body its porn

LadyD says if you don't like don't watch - sounds good to me
I know thumbnail is a bit dodgey - but she isn't actully naked (unlike, I should say - some videos on the sift)

Nothing wrong with naked though and it does not automatically make something porn!

oh and ThePinky, arguing that some men said they perceived woman as objects, does not still make this porn, or objectify Dita. Naked body dancing - doesn't equal porn, not now, not tomorrow not ever.

Art is beauty, and something to be appreciated, this is erotica; not porn, erotica tells a story or explores an idea, it can use the human body, porn is performing explicit sex acts - meant to arouse sexual interest in the reader.

I cant change that thumbnail because I dont know how to...and this is not porn,like I said Im not going to start over this subject again..have a great night
In reply to this comment by thepinky:
I'm talking about the thumbnail that I couldn't help but see because it is the first thing on the front page.

A downvote isn't enough because unfortunately I'm in the minority that cares about keeping porn off of the sift.

In reply to this comment by LadyDeath:
If You Dont like it, DONT watch it,you down vote is already that is not enough?? That is ART for me and for others,Not for you of course, I dont post videos that everybody has to love them...
In reply to this comment by thepinky:
Well, figure out how because your damn video is offensive. By the way, thanks for aiding in the objectification of women on the Sift.

Traitor.

Remember, it's not porn if it's old-timey. Or pseudo-old-timey.

1) It will not be against the rules. You may post from a single youtube account as long as it is not your own.

2) Your youtube account + your videosift account = selflink => ban. Even if someone else is actually using it. Someone else can use their youtube or videosift account to post it though.

3) If it's impossible to find a different source, try to ask someone else to upload it to youtube and then fix the link. If all else fails fix the embed with the video from your own account and note it in the video description, then someone else can copy the video to their account later and the self-link can be removed. This is the only permissible way in which a self link is tolerated. (In my book.)

4) It could go way worse. Rule 7 is left (deliberately?) vague:

Rule 7. "Where's the porn?": None of the allowed VideoSift hosts permit adult videos for content. Occasionally, one might slip through their moderators, in which case it could be posted to VideoSift. If this occurs, please let us know, and we will thank you profusely (and remove it).

"Adult videos" could theoretically be anything with and R rating, but the meaning is most likely porn. Note that showing naked bodies in itself is not porn. For now, I think the consensus is to use Dag's patented "bone'o'meter" (or The Law of the Wood) - if it gives you a bone/wood, it's probably porn. In any case, it could be way worse, even if I don't really have any examples ready.

5) If you are incidentally in a video, like one of the audience at a comic-con and you yourself don't see that you're in the shot, then I have no problem with it. Technically, if you are involved with the making of the video in any way, it would count as a self-link. But the Arbiters are pretty lenient if it's accidental that you're in it. If you record it yourself, you obviously should not sift it. Get someone else to do it for you.

And what is Wikipedia?? The World Bible?? LOL
In reply to this comment by deedub81:
From Wikipedia: Pornography or porn is the explicit depiction of sexual subject matter, especially with the sole intention of sexually exciting the viewer.



In reply to this comment by LadyDeath:
fyi dita von teese video is not porn

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
This isn't porn? Hmmm.

fyi dita von teese video is not porn

In reply to this comment by deedub81:
This isn't porn? Hmmm.