If memory serves me correct that was back a decade ago and they paid it back. FYI Ford and or GM also took the cheese , about 11 billion.. They did not pay it back.

Hand out are wrong --- Just like the Inflation deduction act -- Just gov cheese buying votes / keeping .. Also it does not reduce inflation - opposite

Oh no!!!

If you haven’t noticed, I’m not Bob. I decide my positions on my own, and while I’m socially liberal, that doesn’t mean I agree with the “liberal” positions at all times. I’m not insulted at my position being called “conservative”….I’m not tribalistic that way.

EG-I’m pro gun….but very pro regulation.

I’m actually a fiscal conservative, but unlike the right I know that doesn’t really mean the government should only pay for the military and nothing more. I agree with any spending that saves billions or trillions overall, even when it means some people get a free ride.
I think police are a good idea, although I believe they need serious reforms because they have lost their mission completely.
I think public roads are a good thing, as are public water and power systems.
I think national health care is a no brainer that works well in almost every country and saves trillions per year.
I think a safety net is a good idea...give people something to lose so they don’t turn to crime because they have nothing to lose.

Edit: I’ve said most of my adult life that I would be a Republican if only they would. Today’s Con has no resemblance to the Republican party I thought I grew up with (my entire family was hard core R).
Fiscal sanity, gone. Caring about the environment, gone. Supporting facts and science, gone. Supporting small government, gone (except with lip service). Strong and enforced gun regulations to protect gun ownership rights, gone. Strict supporters of law and order, not anymore. Government out of private life, so incredibly gone. Separation of church and state, gone. Fans of democracy, gone. Honesty, not even a memory.
I’m only a “blue liberal” by default. I might be libertarian if they weren’t crazed anti government extremists and almost MAGA.
Dems are the only ones left that really believe in democratic government.


I agree that 40 years+ without parole is cruel, but certainly not unusual or excessive. I never understand why excessively long prison sentences are considered less than the death penalty…I’m claustrophobic, to me it would be 40+ years of panic. I would give myself the death penalty fairly quickly because I’m not brave enough to face that. Swallow my tongue or bite it off, either works just fine and can’t be stopped. I’m really shocked that’s not the norm, but I’ve (clearly) never had to face it.

Oops this turned into a semi rant. But I am legitimately open to discussion here, and am curious to get your thoughts on a few points Bob. That is, IF you're willing to actually think about them beyond the level of repeating talking points.

I find it interesting how divergent the two overall "sides" are in this country, in terms of where they focus. None of the issues brought up in this video are really on the radar of most progressives, beyond being aware some on the right are talking about them. And I'm guessing a lot of the concerns progressives discuss rarely come up in your chosen media landscape. A lot of the issues in the video are largely off of my radar, and I have to wonder how you feel they should be addressed - like, actual proposed solutions rather than just complaining about / worrying about them.

We only dedicate one day to remember our fallen soldiers

How many should there be? Arguably we have more than one already: there's Memorial Day and Veterans Day, and it seems that Sept 11th is often used for the purpose as well.

I'd argue we should spend more time acknowledging and understanding the principals behind WHY our soldiers died in the various conflicts which caused them to fall in the first place. Let's make sure our citizenry appreciates what we collectively rejected in the Revolutionary war. Why it was important that we kept the country together rather than allowing the south to split off in the mid-1800s. Why we chose to honor our diplomatic agreements and support our allies in WW1. Why we fought against the countries and governments we did in WW2. What our goals were in Korea and Vietnam, and what lessons we learned from those conflicts and from the Cold War in general. Commemorating and remembering those we've lost absolutely matters, but if we're ONLY doing that while forgetting why they fought OR ignoring what we learned then we're doing them an equal or greater disservice. Remember that America was built on the idea of forming "a more perfect union" - not a perfect one, a MORE perfect one - a work in progress. We're striving towards an ideal, not assuming we're already there. Learning from our past successes, failures, and our struggles around both outcomes is vital. If our self-analysis is no deeper than hero worship we'll never make real progress towards that theoretical perfect union.

The only mask that's gonna save us is duct tape on their mouths

Yeah, sound medical advice and evidence-based science is terrifying. Better to shut up those whose words we dislike, because we're reactionary authoritarian babymen. I truly do not understand being more afraid of reasonable safety measures than of a virus which has been shown to cause serious harm in the short and long terms. The only reason this "masks = liberal / maskless = conservative" crap came about is because politics has devolved to the level of team sports in the US, and one party has chosen "the opposite of whatever our political opponents say" as their entire governing philosophy. (And yes, ONE party - research and understand the GOP's 2020 platform if you want to argue the point.) This video even seems to reach a reasonable conclusion at the end, while coming up just short of that final logical leap to "maybe I should question what the public faces of MY side have been claiming in this Us vs Them madness." Seriously - keep going friend, you're almost there! George Washington was 100% right in wanting to avoid political parties being a force in the US, and it makes me immensely sad that his fears came true.

Big oil runs the world / the only wars to get fought are with the countries who have natural resources they want

Solid point here, no sarcasm. The US military has long been a tool of our profit-driven form of "free market" imperialism. A really great way to combat this, specifically with an eye to ending Big Oil's goddamn death grip on our foreign policy goals, would be an aggressive implementation of renewable energy projects. Remember the space race? America can be an absolute beast at clever engineering solutions when we dedicate ourselves to it. Fuck the petrostates, we have the available land and resources to absolutely kick ass in the realms of solar and wind power, and be leaders in the the post-hydrocarbon reality. We can certainly agree on that, right Bob? Left / Right nonsense fully aside, I think any reasonable American can agree on at least two points: let's stop sending heaps of cash to buy oil off of the Saudis (etc), and Fuck Cancer.

But if a white man acts too white he's white trash / he's a racist he's a bigot he's a monster

What the fuck is this horseshit? What does "acting too white" even fucking look like? Watching NASCAR on a sailboat while listening to polka? Typically when I see racism from white people it's in the form of denying that brown-hued people deal with any additional difficulties in life due to their skin tone, or denying that there have been structural obstacles for them through history, or lamenting that their white children are being burdened with a broader lens on culture or with (gasp! shock!) an accurate accounting of actual US history, including the ugly bits that we shouldn't be proud of (but MUST learn from). I'm progressive / lefty as fuck and there is no aspect of "white culture" or "acting white" which upsets me in the slightest. UNLESS one counts "denying racism exists / has ever existed" as a fundamental value of being white. Which... why would anyone want to claim that nonsense? If you want to listen to classic country music in a rusty pickup truck while driving to an evangelical church, then discuss hockey over Buds after 18 holes with the rest of your tractor pull team, then absolutely go nuts my fellow caucusoid! Just recognize and understand that your life experiences may not be the same as those of others. Further, if we care about trying to avoid unnecessary, avoidable unfairness in life (recognizing that life will never truly be fair, for anyone), then it might be reasonable for some governmental / legal / structural recognition in furtherance of that notion. There is absolutely room for legitimate policy disagreement here without being accused of racism. It's denial of others' reality which tends to garner the label of racist (sexist etc) - steer clear of denying the lived experiences of other people, allow for the possibility they may have encountered difficulties you haven't / won't, and we've room for further discussion.

Edit / final point: I voted the video back up to 0 from the -1 where I found it. Because while I disagree with a lot of the positions taken by the performer, they may have reached them through no fault of their own and with no true malice. Misinformation / disinformation is a devious shit of a motherfucker, and the rot it causes can run deep. It is painful to abandon deeply-held beliefs, on a fundamental level. If nothing else, the video gives us room to discuss some specific viewpoints held by people who think of themselves as good, but which can lead to harm.

My dad had a Prophet 2000 shortly before they were available to the public in 85, cost about $2k I think…it was the same technology but for consumers.
Recording samples was a single button push, every characteristic of any sound was infinitely mailable from reverb and attack and fade, sustain, tone, speed, looping, layering, etc. Not a professional unit like this one, lower fidelity, but affordable (by comparison) and comparable in features except the display. It also did MIDI. I have many memories of shoeboxes full of 3.5” “floppies” and way more dials than I knew how to use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_2000

It’s what he is trying to stop the FBI from looking at (3 weeks after they seized it-HA). Sorry, do you think the public will get to see the unredacted list of exactly what secrets they found there? Good luck, that’s classified. What we do have is a list of how many, and what classification was found, and that includes the highest level of classification never allowed outside secure locations (nuclear secrets would be in that category).
Be clear, nuclear secrets covers a ton, not just the launch codes some suspect.
P.s. based on past behavior, he may still have nuclear secrets too.
Also be clear, Trump’s legal team has made no moves at all to ask for more openness or less secrecy, the media has. Trump’s team has made a half assed attempt to keep even the FBI and DOJ from reviewing them with clearance in secure locations, trying to hide what he stole from anyone. Lol.

Where is it? Either the FBI or DOJ.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/11/garland-trump-mar-a-lago/
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/donald-trump-really-bring-nuclear-secrets-mar-lago-rcna42794
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/08/donald-trump-fbi-raid-mar-a-lago-nuclear-weapons-documents
https://www.newsweek.com/nuclear-secrets-already-fell-wrong-handstrumps-opinion-1733711
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-nuclear-weapons-issue-is-hoax-after-washington-post-report-2022-08-12/

If being curious enough to investigate the things I don’t know AND the things I do know to be sure I’m correct in my memory is elitist, fine.
If calling out made up nonsense and liars is elitist, I’ll accept that gladly.
If debating using facts from reliable cited sources and reason is elitist, mea culpa.

Can you define the mindset, or would any definition suit you more than me so it’s better to not define your insult?
Elite-the most powerful, rich, gifted, or educated members of a group, community, etc. I am none of those, I might be one of the better researchers with a decent, not great education. The internet makes us all equal in knowledge if you know how to research….hint, it’s not by reading one article that tells you only what you already believe. I’m not the most rich, powerful, or educated here…are you calling me gifted?
…and you say you’re rich, educated, and I bet you think gifted….aren’t you elitist? You definitely think you know it all despite being demonstrably wrong near 100% of the time on any subject.

No, sorry friendo, you are an immense asshole constantly to nearly everyone, both personally and politically. I’m an asshole to you, because I believe that’s what liars deserve, and you lie constantly and absolutely never admit you were mistaken (why I say you lie and weren’t just incorrect).

OMG!

First it was “I took absolutely nothing, fake news.”
Then “I maybe accidentally took some documents I immediately returned.”
Then “when they came with the second subpoena we gave them everything and swore under oath we had.”
Then “What’s the big deal that we still had top secret nuclear documents unsecured, all they had to do was ask for the documents, we always cooperated.”
Then “No crime, I automatically declassified any document I removed from secure locations by secret overreaching decree I never memorialized.”
Now it’s “yes, I stole hundreds of top secret nuclear documents hurting the country and making everyone less safe because I thought maybe I wanted to put them in my public presidential library that I haven’t started planning to build for everyone to see, so I kept them in an unlocked closet and a public hallway outside the unlocked basement.….because that’s what you do with top secret highly classified nuclear documents.”

His claim other presidents did this is nonsense. Other presidents went through the proper process to screen out secret classified documents, and never took any of the documents, the national archive held them until they were transferred to presidential libraries.

He’s now admitted he personally illegally stole them, and that he personally ignored multiple subpoenas demanding their return, that he personally kept them completely unsecured, and that he (through his legal representatives at his direction) lied and swore to the FBI he had turned them all over. Not what you do when you think you have a legitimate reason for having them….and all public admissions to multiple felonies. Every attempted excuse is an admission of multiple serious felonies involving national security….tell me it’s nothing, prove absolutely nothing comes before your allegiance to the Ochre Ogre. (It’s ok…we know it already.)

Over 700 classified pages….each one carries 5-15 years in prison.

Traitors - “nothing burger”

BTW- turns out records prove that Barr NEVER considered the charges against Trump when he publicly exonerated him, didn’t even read the evidence, just said “nope, not prosecuting”.
The secret memo he tried to hide even from the judge determining if it could be kept secret says clearly that Barr needs to make a statement and not release the full report because it clearly implies/shows the president committed obstruction. This was Barr’s legal team telling him there are legitimate legal charges in the report, and he needs to obstruct the courts and public from seeing them.
At least 10 instances listed in the unredacted Mueller report of Trump obstructing justice that Barr covered up.
That is an underlying crime Barr insisted didn’t exist.
He may be facing obstruction charges too. Likely about to be disbarred, after courts determined he outright lied about the Mueller report. Gonna be great to have an administration reunion in the yard at Levenworth. Everyone will be there.

Edit: aren’t you going to tell us how awful student debt relief is? What a travesty it is to exclude millionaires from getting $10-$20k back in the pocketbooks of those struggling with crushing school debt, some to horrific for profit “schools” like Trump’s totally fraudulent “school” scam? Don’t you need to scream “SOCIALISM!!!”?

No? *crickets*? Isn’t this sending the message that you can just walk away from debt you contracted to pay back? Isn’t it the hard left swing deep into socialist communism that will destroy western civilization? I’m begging you, take the bait and talk shit like the rest of the extreme right…I double dog dare you.

Not a single fake word written there, buddy. You can’t contradict one syllable of what I said, so as usual, like a baby, you just plug your ears, squeeze your eyes shut, and shout “no, no, no, no, no!”
Every word I wrote there was a direct quote from Trump. He spent years claiming that anyone who takes the fifth is absolutely, undeniably, and admittedly guilty. “only criminals invoke the fifth. The mafia invokes the fifth. The mob takes the fifth. If you’re innocent why are you taking the fifth? Taking the fifth, I think it’s disgraceful. It’s despicable people who invoke the fifth.” …all Trump’s public words.

Where do I find it? Mostly memory, but it’s verifiable everywhere. YouTube was a nice resource because they have the videos of him saying it, to be sure I quoted correctly. There’s no point in telling you how to do research, you won’t remember what I told you in 20 minutes anyway.

Yes. Your side DOES have a BS Q site, and toth Senchal, 4chan, and other insanity spreading sites….the left has nothing 1/10 that delusional. Your side also has a dozen separate terrorist wings, most white supremacist organizations just itching for a race war, all prepared to attack the American government violently. 🤦‍♂️

Tell me one thing I said that’s not a verifiable fact.

Checkout line magazine rack?! Don’t project, bob. It’s not a good look. Actually, it would be an improvement for you…you could learn a lot from bat boy, and the weekly world news never came up with anything 1/2 as stupid as the Q nonsense 1/2 of you believe….waiting for JFK jr to resurrect and lead the far right to victory!?! 😂

We’ve got “birds aren’t real” (a parody of Republican stupidity), you’ve got Italian Jewish space lasers changing votes from space for Biden, an actual serious public claim from an elected Republican who is still serving.

Edit: ROTFLMFAHS!! Manafort apparently just ADMITTED to Russian collusion while he was part of Trump’s campaign, admitting to being the one handing over Trump campaign data to Russian oligarchs…for money.
Rusher, Rusher, Rusher…now confirmed by the perpetrator, not a hoax!
Lock him up
Lock him up
Lock him up!

How old were you? I was thirteen and the idea of "mainstream" i'm sure, was nowhere near my wheelhouse of thinking.

My memories of her are exclusively from Grease which i really enjoyed. I do know her her hits, but her music and pop in general never interested me. I had been indoctrinated in progressive rock by the older neighborhood kids by this time. It was always the movie for me, not at all her music.

Um…My last math class (besides taking statistics as an elective) was advanced placement B-C calculus, where I excelled. How about you?
And when do you think I said I’m a math teacher? Another delusion.
I told you for approximately the 29th time my work resume just days ago, and already you know absolutely nothing about it. Just wow. Exactly what I said would happen. I won’t say you have the memory of a gnat….that would be insulting gnats and giving you too much credit.
I’ve never been a teacher, I did edit the teachers edition of a third grade math book when I was 13…is that what you’re misremembering?

Elon himself said publicly he plans a 10% reduction in salaried workers including line workers with only 3 exceptions for battery builders, Solar installers, and car builders….but including thousands of maintenance, construction, design, quality control, new line manufacturing, etc, not just white collar, and rehiring hundreds as hourly no benefits workers, not increasing his workforce. Also announced a hiring freeze worldwide.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-musk-says-tesla-needs-cut-staff-by-10-pauses-all-hiring-2022-06-03/

Ok Bob. Do you want to admit you are a number of agents who post nonsense as bobknight33, or that you are a single person with the memory of a gnat, because I’ve told you a few dozen times what I do. Those are the only two reasonable explanations for you needing to ask. I won’t bother repeating myself again, you won’t remember in an hour anyway.

I’ve got time for news, and the right’s slanted/fake alternative facts…. “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles….”….sorry, thoughtless of me to think you would appreciate Sun Tzu. I’ll simplify, I get the better of you every time because I’m informed, you fail every time because you don’t even understand your own positions, you’re just regurgitating what you were fed.

I see enough of the hearings to have a clue. I record them. I know you haven’t watched a second as you were instructed not to so your “leaders” can spin it as they choose and you won’t know better. God forbid some evidence or testimony opens your eyes.

Bwaaaahahahaha! Wrong again, quoting silly internet lies again, you utter moron. Once again you prove you think you have all the answers but in fact have absolutely zero knowledge or even an ability to learn.

https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/no-evidence-that-smart-people-quote-is-socrates/
It should have been a tip off that nowhere on the internet can you find where this quote is supposedly found. Sources for what Socrates said are quite limited,it would be simple to source if it were real.

Aaaaaaaaaaahahahaha….haaa….haaa…..aaaaaaahahahaha! You are such a laughing stock. It’s why I talk to you, you are always good for an unintentional laugh, you silly little fool.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” You, sir, are the epitome, the personification of ignorance. Nice try, pretending you ever read what Plato wrote about Socrates.

Once again, I research and quote scholars, you quote a made up fridge magnet saying.


LMFAHS!!
None so blind as he who will not see.
We know you won’t see any crimes Trump committed, just like you can’t see racism even when you call black people “creatures” that could never live peacefully with humans. You are not a serious adult, and you act like a 3 year old who wasn’t taught to not lie, doesn’t know what morals or ethics are, and has the memory of a gnat.

YOU are a big nothing burger, bob. Your knowledge, nothing. Your ethics, nothing. Your morals, nothing. Your honesty…less than nothing.

Armed insurrection at the direct direction of the president isn’t a nothing burger to any American, only anti-democracy anti-Americans….you fit in that category firmly….a dishonest, fascist, blatantly and constantly racist blowhard that knows nothing and screams it loudly.

Multiple instances of witness tampering with records to prove it aren’t nothing burgers to those who believe in law and order, so you just admitted you’re pro criminality.

Defrauding the election isn’t a nothing burger to anyone who likes democracy, but we’re well aware you don’t like democracy at all.

Defrauding the courts 60+ times isn’t a nothing burger to anyone who likes law and order, which doesn’t include the criminal right anymore, you became anti law and order under Trump.

Maybe Republicans shouldn’t have boycotted the investigation, but you did. No one to blame for the lack of “balance” but yourselves. When the defense rests before opening statements, you can pretend that’s an unfair “trial” but it’s really just the defense being a nothing burger.
(and heads up you ignorant moron….this is not a trial, it’s an investigation looking for evidence of guilt to send to the DOJ…do you think criminals usually get to be part of the investigation? Shadowing investigators so they know exactly what investigators know before crafting their lies and hiding/destroying undiscovered evidence? That is why coconspirators were barred from the panel, it was blatantly obvious they only wanted to be there to disrupt, hinder, confuse, stymie, and discredit the investigation, and to report back to Trump on exactly what they know and exactly what they don’t know yet, helping him craft a lie that hasn’t been pre-contradicted.

Jesus, sometimes you are so dumb I’m shocked you remember to breath.

Lol. More “I’m rubber, you’re glue”. So grown up.
If I had all the answers, I wouldn’t ever need to do research that I cite, would I? But I do, I read 5 articles full of facts and one or two right wing alternate facts to learn a topic before writing.
Now, how much research and citation do you do? Absolutely none because you think you have all the answers, which is why you are proven wrong a dozen times a day and have never once posted correct statistics or facts. You listen to con man Trump or disgraced OAN and think you know it all.

ROTFLMFAHS!! You are such the pot calling the glass pitcher black. What a sad, delusional, frightened, dishonest little man you are.

as long as they aren't waving those guns around in the bathroom. it's one thing if they shoot their own...

damn. wish hadn't read that comment.

bad memory.

screaming, angry men, and guns being waved around...

completely ruined a good drunk.

worst Amish barn-raising party ever.

Thanks for the memories (first bump emoji here)

I don't recall any SCOTUS nominee ever stating outright that Roe "...would not be overturned by me..." during their confirmation hearings. My memory says that they all refused to limit their discretion as to what their decisions would be in any new case. Citation?

Prohibition of same-sex marriage was once "settled law" - until it wasn't. "Settled law" in the end only acts as a restriction on lower courts. The fact of the matter is that the Supremes can decide any issue in any way they deem fit, regardless of precedents set in any previous Federal cases.

Good luck with your "sex strike". Maybe that will solve the population problem to which you refer.

The memories