@enoch,

neo-conservatives
I've said in a couple other threads if I was American I'd have(very sadly mind you) voted for Hillary. Not sure, but that should really lay the neo-con thing to bed right there. Doesn't mean I won't agree with them if they notice the sky looks rather blue...

the MCA of 2006 and the NDAA of 2012
I don't base or form my morality around American law, so when and how it's deemed lawful or not for an American president to order something doesn't change my opinion one inch on whether the act is good or bad. Sure, it deducts a lot of points when a President breaks laws so that factors in, but if it's legal for a president to shoot babies we're all still gonna call it immoral anyways, right?

you find that it is the region,the actual soil that a person is on that makes the difference between legal prosecution..and assassination.
Between act of war, or peace time legal prosecution with proper due process.

this is EXACTLY what happened with afghanistan in regards to osama bin laden.
and BOTH times,the US state department could not provide conclusive evidence that either bin laden,or awlaki had actually perpetrated a terrorist act.

Sorry, but regarding Bin Laden that's a lie. The US state department held a trial and convicted Bin Laden already back in the 90s. The Taliban refused to extradite him then, and demanded they be shown evidence. They were shown the evidence and declared that they saw nothing unIslamic in his actions. Clinton spent his entire presidency back and forth with them, even getting a unanimous order from the UN security council demanding Bin Laden's extradition.

Smugly claiming that the US refused to provide any evidence to the Taliban because they were being bullies is ignoring reality. after spending several years getting jerked around by the Taliban claiming each new act of war launched from their territory wasn't their fault nor bin Laden's fault left a less patient president after 9/11...

now,is hannity guilty of incitement?
should he be held accountable for those shot dead?
by YOUR logic,yes..yes he should.
Can't say I'm very familiar with Hannity because I avoid Fox news at all costs.
Did he praise the killings afterwards and declare the shooter a hero like Anwar?
Did he council before hand in his books that killing those people was moral or just or religiously blessed like Anwar did?
Did he personally meet with and council/mentor the shooter before hand at some point as well, like Anwar did?

I have to ask just so we really are comparing apples to apples and all. If the answers are yes(and from Fox I suppose I can't completely rule that out just out of hand), then yeah, he's as guilty as Anwar.

now what if hannity had taken off to find refuge in yemen?
do we send a drone?

If he goes to Yemen we just laugh at our good fortune that he decided to kill himself for us.

To your point, if he finds a similar independent state to continue promoting and coordinating attacks as part of an effective terrorist unit killing new civilians every week then yes, bombs away.

Now if either he or Anwar remained in the US you arrest them and follow all due process. Oh, and to again shake the neo-con cloud you don't get to torture them by calling it enhanced interrogation, it's still a war crime and you should lock yourself up in a cell next door.

My whole thing is that setting up a state within a state and waging war shouldn't just be a get out of jail free card under international law. Either the 'host' state is responsible for the actions or it is not. If responsible, then like in Afghanistan it initiated the war by launching the first attacks. If not responsible, then it's declared the state within a state to be sovereign, and other states should be able to launch a war against the parasitic state, as has been happening with Obama's drones in tribal Pakistan.

Why would you lock animals up together that clearly don't like each other? What an asshole.

I'm glad he made the point that internal causes can't be separated from external causes. If you believe in determinism then you have to realize that before your birth everything that you will do was determined, but none of it was internal. And once you are born, how then do you become culpable for the initial state of the universe?

I agree with compatibilists on the broad point that determinism is largely compatible with holding people responsible for their actions. But I think they're too hung up on the idea of moral responsibility. Even without thinking anyone is the author of their own actions, it's still wise to lock people up who are an immediate threat to others, or use measured punishment as a deterrent, or hope to change future behavior with treatment programs. The only thing you don't get to do is be vindictive and cruel, thinking the perpetrator deserves to suffer. But I've never believed in punishment for the sake revenge anyway.

No, I don't think I said that. Again, it would be nice, but if she locks it up (not counting super delegates) then Bernie's run as a Democrat is over, as is all hope. I don't hold onto even a shred of hope that he'll sway her policy, no matter what he gets her to say during the election.
She's already been incredibly inconsistent on the minimum wage thing, actually taking 3 positions in one sentence in one debate. Can't trust her.
Tax on investment transactions...you've GOT to be kidding, she'll never consider any such thing, it goes against her own, and her donors interests.
A speed limit on trading info so everyone has an equal chance would work better.
The one you didn't mention is the MOST important in my eyes, and also a non starter from her or them....campaign reform...both finance AND how elections operate from districts to electronic voting machines and everything in between. Without that, we'll never get candidates that will work for us OR fix the system that supports them, or even be able to trust our elections. As I see it, Sanders is our one and only hope of fixing the system, so the only hope of saving the union.

Sorry, I don't speaks no langijizz. ;-)
No, again, I don't expect, or even want her to drop out. I don't know what gave that impression. I expect, and want, a reasoned debate about which is better, and which is more likely to win. There may be some unknown on either side that would change minds if they discuss it rationally.
Bernie has continued to say often that he's going to the convention and not dropping out, even if Clinton locks it up. I don't think he's planning on pulling out, but yes, stranger things have happened. Wait until >3 days AFTER that day to ask his supporters to vote for Clinton would be my suggestion.
He has been far more successful than anyone expected 9 months ago, and she's been far less successful. Yes. ;-)

Yeah, the total "lockup" of the muscles (even after she hit that patch of rocks too), absolutely rigid, is pretty odd. It was almost akin to a grand mal or other types of seizure that cause the same thing. Maybe this was a life-long issue and they happened to see the very end. I'm guessing that quite possibly that outcropping of rocks was the real "killer" (hit in the head or spinal cord injury; we already know it was strong enough to break the jaw, perhaps it did more than just that).

The part that is a bit more odd is that the rigidity "appeared" to still be there when they got to her. I don't know if a seizure, plus something killing you, can lock you up like that. If not, then like others said it wasn't a very normal death, with something she ate as the most probable issue.

Just guessing though...

And then there was this one - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/16/angela-merkel-comforts-teenage-palestinian-asylum-seeker-germany

Really there was no way to come out of that one looking good... although I do give her points for at least showing up and talking to the girl. Our own local version of the CDU would have locked her up in the Gulags of Nauru or Manus Island, and prevented any interviews or reporting punishable by 2 years gaol http://gu.com/p/4abgf/stw

Something else from Australian politics, the speaker of the house has come under fire for her travel expenses - http://gu.com/p/4akdp/stw - strangely not so much for the $A90,000 on a trip to Europe, but instead for the $5,000 for a helicopter trip to Geelong for a party fundraiser... go figure.

This one was just funny - our chief lizard trying to stay on message seems to have suggested that a grocery code would have prevented the Greek financial crisis - http://gu.com/p/4ae24/stw

It be feelin' like the life that I’m livin' man, I don't control
Like every day I’m in a fight for my soul
Could it be that my medicine’s the evidence
For pigs to stop and frisk me when they rollin' round on patrol?
And ask “why you’re here?”
I just tell 'em cause it is what it is
I live here and that’s what it is
He chimed “you got a dime?
I said “Man, I’m tryin' to smoke and chill
Please don’t lock me up in front of my kid
And in front of my wife
Man, I ain’t got a gun or a knife
You do this and you ruin my life
And I apologize if it seems like I got out of line, sir
Cause I respect the badge and the gun
And I pray today ain't the day that you drag me away
Right in front of my beautiful son”
And he still put my hands in cuffs, put me in the truck
When my woman screamed, said “shut up”
Witness with the camera phone on
Saw the copper pull a gun and
Put it on my gorgeous queen
As I peered out the window
I could see my other kinfolk and
Hear my little boy as he screamed
As he ran toward the copper begged him not to hurt his momma
Cause he had her face down on the ground
And I’d be much too weak to ever speak what I seen
But my life changed with that sound

Get out, get out, get out, get out
Feeling this, feeling this too early
Get out, get out, get out, get out
Feeling this way, feeling this way
Feeling this, feeling this too early
Feeling this, feeling this early

It be feelin' like the life that I’m living man, I don’t control
Cause every day I’m in a fight for my soul
All hands below, high seas in a rickety boat
Smoke o’s, so the kid might cope
You want cash or hope, no clash, matter fact get both
Go without get turnt to ghosts
You know that's the law, deal done by the shake of claws
It ain't a game if the shit don’t pause
And I find you odd, so convinced in the truth of y’all
That the true truth’s truly gone
And yes there's a they, any time a man say there's not
Then you know that he lost the plot, what can I say?
Truth’s truth when denied or not, like its true crews ride the cock
Fair enough, the way that the beat bump do sound tough
I made it in the dark like Civil War surgery
Woke up in the same air you huff, early
By twelve o’clock the whole Earth felt dirty
Street Lamps stare when you walk watch the birdie
They’ll watch you walk to the store they’re recording
But didn’t record cop when he shot, no warning
Heard it go pop, might have been two blocks
Heard a kid plus pops watched, cop make girl bleed
Go to home, go to sleep, up again, early

better go lock yourself up in a bomb shelter and forsake internet.

please put your money where your mouth is.....please.

but you won't. You're a typical internet loud mouth \ coward

Our justice system is fucked. Before it SCREWED me and dropped the charges, I was a relatively harmless person. Time served HAH. That's the joke that we call justice.

Lock you up with hardened criminals and then put you on a list. My god. It's horrifying. Absolute tyranny to truth and justice. It's all wealth control. We live in a money machine and when we cease to be profitable, we are driven to depression and addiction, beaten, and then put through the revolving door of incarceration.

My HATRED for this system is unending.

Has it EVER been right? I have my doubts. I believe this world to be a sham.

Actually, 99% of human behavior is entirely anarchic. I make millions of large and small transactions with other humans on a daily basis which have absolutely zero government involvement, whatsoever. Billions of other people on the planet do the exact same thing. Daily. Government is a fiction by which some people live at the expense of everyone else.

Even Somalia, as you may have seen, grew and improved on almost all counts after the government collapsed, built more roads and infrastructure during its 20 years without government than it did with the government.

What we have now, with a centralized government, is (because people, let alone government, is far from omniscient) more of a "planned chaos," by which little to nothing is fully known as to the long term of effects of anything that the government imposes. At least, without government, we work within natural laws and an emergent order. Instead, what we have now is "positive laws" (imposed by governments) which regulate some people at the expense of the many, while benefiting a very few.

And I think you should learn your history before you suggest that "might-makes-right" argument has shaped the arc of civilization. One cannot make the honest case that government is not behind the worst, most egregious crimes against humanity known to man, with its ability to generate unlimited money to spend on mobilizing huge military empires so "the people's" proxy can drone foreigners to death, or lock them up in Guantanamo or anywhere else, or spy on all their communications, or make them all poor though inflation, or regulate their existence to the most minute detail, or provide them with bad healthcare or any number of other things that government can do.

Not me. I'm joining the billions of people throughout history (from the Puritans, to the American Revolutionaries, to the millions of emigrants via Ellis Island, to millions of refugees, to all those air lifted from Saigon, to all those Americans whose relatives fled from China, Korea, Vietnam, Iran, or anyplace where there's war, or famine, or economic devastation) who decided to opt out of government, and to voluntarily exit the charade.


"But, hey, if you like your government, you can keep it."

The thing is though: Glenn Beck can't deport anyone. The Westboro Baptist church can't lock people up for being gay. Fox News has no control of anything, they're just a news outlet.

In Israel on the other hand, it looks like there are actual people in power who do have the power to imprison the Sudanese in a specially-built prison just for them, where they stay until the Israeli government is ready to deport them. That's what's show in the video.

So, the comparison to US television isn't all that fitting. Sure, it's not showing you or your ilk, but it's still not an apt comparison. It's nothing like this.

Looking at this downvote-fest clearly shows that mental illness is like flying planes and swimming with sharks. Everytime something horrible happens involving planes, sharks or insane people it's on the news, becoming the big story. Somebody shot up a school, details at five o'clock. Every fucking time.
These stories of terrible perril and death are so interesting, we make the best blockbuster cinema out of them: Psycho, Jaws and Snakes on a Plane (the double whammy of scary things!).
We're conditioned to fear that stuiff, we're comfortable fearing that. It looks and sounds scary and everybody can come up with easily terrifying scenarios.
Nobody is afraid of driving their car though. I wonder what the statistics make of that.
First of all, "better lock her up, she might get herself killed" is not an argument to lock up the crazy lady, it is an argument to lock up the postal worker. Before he goes postal on her. Yeah, that was a great pun, you better clap. But I meant: before he stands his ground.
Second, "she might be dangerous!"
Really? How do you know? Should we get the cops to taser her into submission? How would you like that video, "mentally ill woman tasered by cops"?
I see no weapon, I see no hint of her trying to get too close to that guy. She vents some paranoia and then leaves. She goes away. That's it.
Sure, her other videos may make her creepier but that's her thoughts she posting. I'm a man. If I'd walk around with a camera and record every thought of mine, I'd probably been locked away by now because there's a lot of people I'd like to shoot. In my thoughts. Not even touching upon the sex stuff here. Our thoughts tend to be weird and creepy. It applies to all of us.
Hers are just of the rails, as in mentally ill. And she's oversharing.
And finally, I'm not Chairman Woo but I endorse his message. And he saved me lots of typing.

Thank you for sharing this in that awful thread. I have someone very close to me that has paranoid schizophrenia and a lot of the problem was that they were born in a time where the culture just wanted to lock them up and call them crazy. Luckily now, it's much better but still not ideal. There is still a negative stigma attached to mental illnesses.

Anyway, I'm trying to avoid the thread for now as I don't want to get too personal on VS these days. I just thought I should let you know that your comments meant something to some stranger on the internet.

Have a good day!

^ Just to be clear people with Schizophrenia and other psychotic conditions do have an elevated risk of committing violent acts. It's about 20% of pre diagnosed patients and around 9% of post treatment/diagnosis patients. As opposed to around 1-2% of the "normal" population.

The only big exception to this is in hospital itself where it can rise as high as 50%, however this is pretty well understood to be a product of the environment and circumstances (i.e. you are forcibly being held against your will). It's also one of the reasons you managed to evoke such hostility from me, the idea that people should just be committed/sectioned because they appear somewhat unstable is one that causes a great deal more harm that good.
There are people that are a genuine danger to themselves and or others when in the grips of an "episode", such people are why mental health sections exist, however extreme care and attention must be applied when considering someone who has yet to commit an "index offence".

If she's attacked people (or herself) before when displaying the same symptoms fine, if she has a history of refusing reasonable treatment fine, if she goes and attacks someone fine. But you can't just go around locking people up because they behave strangely. For all we know this lady has never hurt anyone and is not likely to do so, you can't make the kind of judgements your making without fully understanding the patient and the nature of their condition.
There are people I work with you'd instantly label as crazy and possibly dangerous. One guy has a trait of sometimes staring hard at you (esp strangers) while talking intensely under his breath to himself. If you saw him doing that to you and you'd never met him you'd probably shit yourself a bit (I know I did) but the dude is about as gentle as they come! He'd only ever act violently if you cornered him while he was confused and even then probably not. (never been a problem in the 2 years I worked with him)

I'm not saying this lady definitely isn't in any way dangerous, or even that it might not be better to taker her in under a section. I'm simply saying that making assumptions like that is extremely damaging both to the sufferers and to our ability to understand and help them.

Now the whole Gay/Lesbian/Transgender thing has started to become a normal part of our culture mental health is the perhaps one of the last great bullshit taboos left.

Their not crazies, THEIR FUCKING PEOPLE!!!

And I know this because I've yet to meet a truly "sane" human in my life.