Another excellent example why she's one of my idols.

Here they are performing live.


I just love the juxtaposition of them both audibly and visually, not to mention their musicality in general.

Little more on them: Ladybeard is a pro wrestler from Australia and his partners in Ladybaby are Rie Kaneko (17) and Rei Kuromiya (14) (but don't Google them unless you want to find truly disturbing photos that border on child porn; I guess "teen idols" are normal in Japan, and they have very young girls dressed scantily and provocatively; ick).

I wouldn't come to the defense of anyone who did actual terrible things like murder, etc. I just think that it is confusing and illogical to follow the common "for the sake of PC-ness" path of assuming that if any one person did some terribly evil or wrong thing, then *everything* that they ever did must by extension be evil and wrong.

I also agree with this aspect in particular of your other post:
"Awful shit is just awful!
And should ALWAYS overshadow any "good" accomplishments a person does."

With regards to how society at large, governments, etc. treat them -- absolutely. Those murderers etc. should be locked up and/or treated exactly like we would treat a "mere pleb" in the same circumstances. It is very frustrating that that is often NOT the case at all. Athletes, actors, and other stars get away with no punishment or slap on the wrist punishment for stuff WAY too often (which I think happens partly because of their idol status and partly because of $$$, two massive weaknesses in our criminal justice system).

...BUT, I still think that we can (should?) value and acknowledge the individual positive things that a person (any person) has accomplished, while at the same time condemning them for the bad stuff. I'm not religious at all, but I guess I can steal the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" and have it be pretty close to what I'm looking for.

Cosby was (still is, even) a personal hero or idol to a whole lot of people. I think we're all tempted to put the blinders on and be *very* reluctant to accept any accusations of wrongdoing against people that we look up to like that.

Michael Jackson, OJ Simpson, Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds ... all got a hefty dose of benefit of the doubt from their fans way past the time that more clearheaded people started thinking "there might be something going on there".

I don't think that makes Whoopi a stupid or shitty person. Just a fallible person that *wants* to believe the best about people that she has respect for.

First, it's 'your head' and not 'you head'. I believe using proper english is considered a norm in society. We don't speak 'gangster' here.
Second, both Groups, slaves and jews, were marginalized parts of society who got treated badly because it was normal for the majority to do so. Then we grew up and started to understand that you shouldn't act this way. So far, only some of us managed that.
Third, I'm on a different continent than you are, it doesn't matter where I go. Also, Peter Pan is my Idol, I'll never grow up. I thought a man who is into clowns would understand.

Christians have often tried to enforce their 'morality' on the rest of us....it NEVER works out well for anyone, and in hind sight is always seen as evil and stupid, as well as non-christian. Morality is a personal decision. When you start legislating/forcing it, you've lost your freedom to decide for yourself. In America, it's 100% legal to sin, the only excuse for singling out this 'sin' is the hatred for those disenfranchised by doing so.
The bible also said I'm to stone anyone working on Sunday, or worshiping incorrectly (even if they're Christian), or worshiping idols (like a cross), or adulterers...where's the standing up for that, if it's so important to follow the bible? It also said to take slaves, rape, murder, sacrifice children, ...shall I go on explaining why 'the bible said so' is the worst argument ever?
Doesn't the bible say it's not OK to marry a different 'race', what about a different religion...why aren't you fighting to end inter racial marriage, and inter faith marriage? Come on, let's hear the logic.
The day marriage was recognized as a civil process, the institution was removed as a religious one and became a civil one, which means one religious groups idea about it matters not. Even if you believe it was 'created by god', you must admit it's now a civil process with civil benefits, not religious one's, so YOUR religion has nothing to do with it anymore. That's YOUR religions fault for insisting on benefits for 'married' people.

As for 5 men...well, I can't really see a reason plural marriage is illegal beyond someone's morals...but a tree? How does a tree consent and affirm their wish to be married? If it can, go for it. Why do you want to stand in the way of that tree's happiness?

Always heard about this, first time I ever saw it. Did this go out live on the air? I remember Billy Idol's "Rock the Cradle of Love" being the hit from Dice's "Ford Fairlane" movie but in all of the clips from the movie in that music video you never see Dice once. I guess they took that ban seriously at the time.

She was someone who was trying to sell records and whose record label and management were adamant of the necessity to stay in the closet. Not the same thing as a private person.

If you listen to it again with that in mind, that she has been instructed to stay in the closet by folks eager to make money off her... she is subversively brilliant, I think. About as out and proud as you can be inside that straitjacket.

I remember when she came out of the closet. She was on the cover of a magazine, displayed prominently at the grocery store checkstand. Two women in line in front of me saw the cover. They were shocked -- SHOCKED I SAY -- that k d lang was a lesbian!

Different times. Nobody would be shocked today. She wouldn't be in the closet today.

I mean, look at Adam Lambert on American Idol. As gay as anything, and even he took a while to say it. (I think. I don't watch the show but I seem to remember huge speculation and then he finally just said it.)

And that was just a couple of years ago.

And that is why they couldn't just say it. Arsenio helped her say as best he could, she said it as best she could, within the constraints of the times.

A natural comparison...people want to idolize Steve Jobs for what he did with Apple...iphones...macbooks...imacs, etc. And thats fine I guess.

But Bill Gates is someone who should be idolized. What he is doing with his foundation is remarkable and world changing. Helping scientists, engineers, researchers to flourish and bring in technology like this is fantastic.

Intro (Sage Francis):
Right about now, the SFR court is in full effect!
Judge Sage presiding in the case of the People vs. The Police Department.
Prosecuting attorneys are: Toki Wright, Jasiri X and B motherfuckin’ Dolan.
Order! Order! Order! B. Dolan, take the motherfuckin’ stand.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
(Dolan: You goddamn right.)
Then why don’t you tell everyone what the fuck they have the right to do?

Verse 1 
(B. Dolan):
Film the Police. Run a tape for the underclass!
Get the face, name and number on the badge.
They flash, we flash back when they act disorderly.
React accordingly and capture all that we see…
Nightstick, Zip-ties, and Tasers.
Think they’re licensed for type vicious behavior.
Make a tight fist with a video trained toward the Pigs,
Like this. They trip & you make ‘em famous.
Explain to a Judge the bounds you oversteppin’.
2011 time to the change our method.
We aim lenses at the State’s weapon,
‘Til they remember whose goddamn streets they’re protecting.
They’d rather see me in a cell
Than me and my cell with a different story to tell.
Camcorder by the dash. Next time you get stopped,
Reach for the celly if you wanna shoot a cop.
On a public sidewalk, you can tape what you see,
Or film from your window with a view of the street!
Neighborhood Crime Watch, we police the Police.
They can’t arrest the whole community.
Because the streets clock. These cops occupying blocks,
Harassing the homeless with batons, pulling glocks.
They stop lawful protests and let off shots…
Abuse prostitutes and misuse power they got.
In memory of the victims who are never forgot,
We’ve gotta’ exercise our right to shed light in the dark.
There is an army on the march that doesn’t want you to watch.
You’ve got a weapon in your pocket whether you know it or not.
We, the people, are the only real media we got.
Let’s protect one another from the fucking goon squad.
Fascism’s coming to the U.S.A.
Eyo, Sage, I got something to say!
Verse 2 (Toki Wright):
Film the police! It’s time to make it our priority.
You see these fools are in abuse of their authority.
Crack a fist or you crack a whip.
But that ain’t power you coward, you beat a man with two shackled wrists.
So put their names up on a list next to an asterisk.
Next time you see ‘em blast a clip, then you flash a flick.
Attach a video and pic to your master list.
Be on the news at 6. YouTube views legit.
The cops watch us, so we gotta have the Cop Watchers.
Been in fear of law so long, so now it’s not awkward.
But what is law when it’s wrong. When you slam us on the floor.
Naw, this ain’t World Wrestling Entertainment Raw.
This is Edutainment, y’all. Got a call from B. Dolan.
You try to squabble with Johnny Law and get your meat swollen.
Why you think Bobby and Huey P. were heat holding?
You better load the footage up and get to key stroking.
And while you at it, send one off to the administration,
It’s indicating, all the physical intimidation.
It’s been too long they said to “bear with us.”
That’s when I run up on your caravan and rip off all your D.A.R.E. stickers.
This here is near Hitler’s; weirder than some mere tickets…
You feel privileged ’til your wife get her brassiere lifted.
You disappear quick as Hoffa if you piss a copper,
Off ya’ til you get a Channel 7 News helicopter.
Violence hides in a code of silence, tyrants hide in an alliance,
Quiet or be left somewhere, or get swept inside it.
It’s Goliath vs. a bigger giant.
Got us pulling over so far we ran a curb and hit a hydrant.
It’s systematic how the system has its symptoms,
Of the democratic law that’s been flawed since the pilgrims landed.
So now tell me what you wanna do? Next time you see the boys in blue,
You cock your camera back and point and shoot.

Verse 3 (Jasiri X):
Film the police! I got the Cannon 7D.
Highest definition for when they try to arrest and lynch ‘em,
Then lie and protest the whippin’, not serve and protect the victims.
Their murders, threats and hitmen…observe ‘em and let the witness be
The iphone. Never let bygones be bygones.
Get your flip cam before they get in the whip and ride on.
It’s vital ’cause our survival could depend on a video going viral,
With more viewers than American Idol.
Instead of having to bury a child who…
The cops shot ’cause they thought they carried a rifle.
Then the same cops will go to court and swear on a bible,
And smile to show the teeth that they’re preparing to lie through.
Whether Crips or Piru ,Vice Lords or Gangsta Disciples,
Make sure your camera lens gets an eyeful.
And they liable to try and confiscate it.
Better hold on to that shit like you’re constipated.
‘Cause they’ll pretend them injuries are not related,
Like, “When we arrived we saw him dive head first off the pavement.”
So keep the mini cam stashed in the dash of your mini van.
They’ll crash and smash on any man.
Pull out your Blackberry ’cause cops will take a shot at your black berry,
‘Til we see another black buried.
Don’t act scary, ’cause they’ll empty the gat on ya’,
Stand over your body just to sprinkle the crack on ya’.
Police attacking ya’. Don’t want to see they reflections like Dracula.
But camera’s capture ya’.
Too busy using your flashlight to batter us,
To notice John Singleton was my passenger.
So point, click and shoot they asses,
It’s the only way to get the real truth to the masses.
Jasiri X, I’m making movies like Spike Lee.
I won’t be a law and order special victim like Ice T.

He will alway be my idol...moved in a few houses down from my first girlfriend. Drive by his old place every now & again.

Yeah, it is pretty sad... that some mourn for people who have more oppotunities than most, money, fame, talent and a legacy known around the world, but that isn't enough, or they can't handle it and decide that suicide is the way to go. Why don't you sift about the 20 or so military combat vets (not just US vets either) that commit suicide every day, men and women who decided that their day at work could mean dying for you, me, and a belief - you know, if you really are sick of sifting this kind of idolizing bullshit.

Whatever you say, but my point still stands. She's not the greatest athlete that can do this, there are many many women that can do this.

Wait...did they have cameras on you? Were you broadcast? Are you attractive? There are several layers...you can get in line for American Idol, that doesn't mean anything for the actual SHOW.

Like I said, she's there for a reason.

You are a troll, or traul or troller or sometong with a stupid poopy pants opinion.

That is my opinion to have. Anyone on this site other than you can have whatever opinion of you as they seem fit, you can have an opinion but that would be a biased one to express.

I think you are just having a problem with it because of that status, but let it be known, he is a user, he has an opinion. Nothing wrong with having an opinion as long as you do it in a fairly respectable manner, pretty sure that has been explained here.

The fact you are making an issue out of it solidifies your panties are in a wad and are just picking at something inert and trying to make it flammable.

" You calling me a troll is wrong " is an opinion, what you express their is exactly what you are saying Dag should not have.

Although I do not give much hope to those that worship idols to understand circular logic and logic in itself.

LETS BE FRIENDS BOB! do you like to barbeque ?

I can see his point though. Founding fathers were far from perfect..and he's right, they are idolized. If we were to meet the founders right now, I'm sure they'd say some fucked up shit even the most conservative would now think of as barbaric. I think at the very least, they definitely favored landowners over non. They certainly didn't think women should vote. so they certainly weren't strangers to the idea that some people had more rights than others.

We make the same argument about weapons, that the founding fathers never could have foreseen how guns have advanced and proliferated in present day so we routinely argue that the 2nd amendment needs to be revisited. The left focuses on "well regulated" and the right focus on "shall not be infringed" No matter what side of the aisle you're on...it needs to be revised if only for clarity.

By that same token, I don't think the founders could have foreseen how powerful corporations have become or income inequality problem. Gov't used to have the power to revoke a company charter pretty much on whim...that ability is long gone