Looks like we'll have to start using tranquilizer guns with vaccine darts to reach herd immunity.

Never thought I'd be a gun advocate but, here I am. Better subscribe to GUNS & AMMO now.

I thought I addressed that. Travel was also open between states, and many countries with "free travel amongst nations" had no-travel/stay at home orders in place, unlike the U.S., and afaik, mandatory quarantine for all international travelers.

Again, because he eradicated the international Global Health Security and Biodefense unit, I can legitimately ascribe every single non Chinese death and most Chinese deaths to his actions directly. A pandemic on this level WAS foreseen after SARS, Ebola, and Swine Flu, it's why we created the GHSB. It's why we had a pandemic response plan that Trump completely ignored and actually denied it existed for months and months.

I also am going by facts. My facts say that at least four things Trump did against professional advice took us from prepared to minimise any pandemic to at worst a foreign epidemic to a place where months after pandemics start our leader denied any danger and made no moves to stop it.
1) Eradication of the GHSB, missed opportunity one to have zero US cases and avoid a pandemic completely.
2) Repeated early public denial of the danger while encouraging others to do the same and go about business as usual, missed opportunity two to have zero US cases, and a missed opportunity to minimize any spread if quarantining travelers (something else he failed miserably to even consider early on) failed.
3) Encouragement of those who trust him to ignore all mitigation efforts, don't mask, don't social distance, don't shut down non essential businesses, don't close schools, don't listen to medical professionals....missed opportunity number three to minimize US infections to thousands instead of hundreds of thousands. Remember the many months he said grandma would gladly die to get people back to work, pretending many months in that only feeble octogenarians get sick?
4) Denial of a prepared response plan, never following it and claiming total ignorance, missed opportunity number four to follow prepared plans based on science from day one, missing the opportunity to keep our infection rate at S Korean levels.

That's four well researched and vetted moronic, irrational, and irresponsible mistakes he personally made that multiplied our infection rate by 100- infinity times (if we could have had zero without his multiple massive and stupid mistakes, which is not just possible but likely, he can be said to have CAUSED every single US case, multiplying our infections by infinity.). There were more, but I'm beating a dead horse.
Remember, his real plan was natural herd immunity, with an expected 3-60 million deaths depending on who you asked.

I say if intelligent decisions could have avoided all US infections, and that's undeniable IMO, you can lay the blame for as high a percentage as you like on the leader who made bad dangerous decisions out of pure narcissistic ignorance and hatred of his predecessor...up to 100%. 80-90% still seems like I'm coddling him, at least two failures could have made cases zero, and others minimized it to under 10% of what we have. All four I listed almost certainly allowed >90% giving every doubt and giving him all possible credit....so yes, I'm satisfied I'm not exaggerating.

Obama's responsible and responsive planning and execution stopped Ebola from ever spreading here despite it making it to our shores, and it was FAR more contagious and deadly. Had we had Trump then doing the same things, there would be tens of millions dead and likely still spreading disease, imo.


Edit: let me try analogy...If a mayor removes the stop signs from 4 way highway intersections, they are responsible for every wreck that happens, even though other towns with stop signs still have wrecks at intersections. Trump pulled the signs, removed the flashing red light, and cut first responder funding, and claimed there never was a highway code to follow and he takes no responsibility for the jump in highway deaths.

I'm regurgitating the numbers Dr Birx used, and comparing our outbreak to other nations that took it seriously like S Korea and New Zealand. If we had used the same serious action S Korea had, our death rate per 100000 would be an astonishing 1/60th of what our death rates were in the first 6 months or so. Just universal mask wearing would have cut our deaths by an estimated >1/4, 130000 fewer deaths, and slowed the rate of new cases significantly, but Trump fought against them.

Here's the link on that data...., granted slightly dated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/23/how-many-coronavirus-deaths-are-truly-attributable-trump/

Remember, the Whitehouse said 100000-240000 possible deaths, around the same time Trump said deaths would never rise over 20000, using the lower of those numbers and blaming Trump's policies for the excess we are >80% his fault now, using Trump's promised numbers over 96% are blood on his hands.

There's also the fact that after knowing about the uncontrolled epidemic in WuHan Trump let over 40000 people (just not Chinese nationals) back in the country from that region with no tests available and no quarantine except for those obviously extremely sick. An immediate and actual travel lockdown could have made our deaths zero, and definitely would have made them exponentially lower.

Then there's the dismantling of the Global Health Security and Biodefense unit he closed that likely could have identified the outbreak in China much earlier and again, made our numbers zero. It's exactly what they were created to avoid.

I honestly feel 80- 90% was being generous, in fact there's a real possibility that a thoughtful adult president would have made any number of intelligent decisions, any one of which could have avoided the pandemic altogether or minimized infections enormously, even minimizing the Chinese epidemic.

I do agree, Biden is doing much better at taking it seriously and acting like rapid vaccination is important, but still isn't doing enough. I would prefer an enforced national mask mandate, mandatory social distancing, school closings until vaccination saturation, etc until we have herd immunity....not half assed measures like 50% capacity at bars and restaurants, with few business shutdowns and zero enforcement, pretending it's over every time infection rates dip.

I like how you actually have to pay attention to what she is saying to understand what she is saying.

Lots of good videos, quantum physics, flat earth, herd immunity...

What?

Nice you FINALLY have come around to the fact that Biden won not only the election but also the electoral college and the presidency....but things are far from fine thanks to the inconceivable incompetence from the last administration.

The Trump pandemic, thanks to zero leadership and seeming intentional sabotage by the outgoing administration, is the worst it’s ever been, things aren’t fine. It is the absolute wrong time to “open up and go about your business “. That’s simply asinine. It’s time to enforce stay at home orders and public masking, social distancing, etc by arresting and putting anti maskers and idiots who won’t social distance in prison. Put them in the Maricopa tent prison, feed them green bologna. Sorry, the prison hospital is full, just don’t be sick. That methodology worked in other countries, maybe because their government didn’t support and encourage anti maskers, anti social distancers, COVID deniers, didn’t give up on control in favor of disasterous herd immunity (except Sweden who abandoned it), nor did they encourage the civil unrest, attacks on government officials, super spreader events, refusal of all public health orders, and denial of the virus.

Nice that you’ve FINALLY come around to the truth that the Trump pandemic is real, not a hoax, not a mild flu. It only took nearly 500000 dead Americans to convince you. Of course, you’ll never admit you were wrong no matter how many are dead because of those mistaken beliefs.

This is a nationwide issue, not a state issue. The federal government needs to divert funds, manpower, facilities, ppe, equipment, logistics, vaccines, testing, and training. Operation warp speed failed on every count.

Since not getting treatment is a national public health issue as well as a personal issue, it is a federal issue. Poor people not getting testing or treatment spreads disease to everyone, not just to more poor people you don’t care about. This means yes, the fed should pay for medical treatment as a public health expense, especially since this public health disaster was exacerbated if not caused by the total failure of the federal government to act. Korea was infected the same day, they barely had an issue compared to the US.

Because you simply can’t get a funeral nationwide, and have no choice but to use the few facilities that will accept a body no matter the cost or service, and because this is a federal health emergency, this is a federal issue.

States have been BEGGING for this assistance and more for almost a full year now, your implication that states just need to ask for help is a proven falsehood. The federal government under Trump actually worked against states procuring their own supplies while telling them to procure their own supplies. Repeatedly, when states found the supplies they needed, the federal government would confiscate them, then hand the supplies over to private businesses to resell them to the states to the point that states stopped telling the fed they had found supplies and shipped them in secret to avoid having them stolen. We can only hope Biden has dismantled that ridiculous system the Trump administration set up.

Don is gone
But his herd isn't

Hope the sober GOP members stay the course
Get some real fixes installed

Healthcare, Public Education Reform, Infrastructure, COVID...and a total myrid of things that can be addressed if the desire is there.

Four years of Don foolery is enough.

Go Joe

His personal lack of planning, lack of concern, and total ineptitude caused it. Because he isn't a leader, he shirks responsibility, but the responsibility is his, personally.

And he did it again, 17 more of you chumps were hospitalized for heat stroke/exhaustion after another super spreader rally yesterday. When fire trucks and paramedics showed up to help the people collapsed on the ground, Trump actually suggested they might be the enemy attacking his crowd, saying "lets find out if they're friend or foe, and if they're foe let's take care of this", telling the crowd to attack the first responders who were trying to save their lives if they suspect they might be non cultists... he's so incredibly clueless and irresponsible, and he doesn't care if you die as long as you vote for him first.

How many have had to be hospitalized after Biden rallies? ZERO.


At this point, it's a certainty that his Petri dish events have killed at least hundreds by infecting thousands, in every state he visits there's a corresponding massive spike in cases and deaths a week or so later, contact traced back to his rallies every time. This is forcing new lockdowns and has already overrun the medical system in many areas.

Side note, he's socialistically dumping the problems on the first responders in the areas too, having made no plans or contingencies for these foreseeable fiascos, costing the local towns tens of thousands to millions in unrecoverable tax dollars to clean up his messes, and he still hasn't even paid for his rallies from 2016 in most cases, costing dozens of cities millions each for events he put on with the agreement to pay for them, agreements he consistently welches on.

As for his idiotic herd immunity plan guaranteed to kill at least 8 million Americans and likely to kill more like 50-75 million thanks to a total overrun of the medical system causing a lack of treatment for most, virologists have determined the immunity it might give the population wouldn't last one year before the virus mutates enough to reinfect everyone, starting the pandemic cycle over.

But you fell for the idea because you a low IQ tool.

And this is you guy you voting for?

🤦‍♂️

Thinning out the "herd mentality."

The video I agree....my calculations show his newest stated plan, herd mentality (immunity), "that's going to happen", leads to 7-8 million dead at a best case miraculously perfect execution, and in reality more likely >40->50 million due to an overburdened medical system. I don't have a clue where they get such a lowballed estimate as 3 million. I'm with you there....Shame.

The data for what I sent is at John Hopkins university, the NPR data source is listed, statistica requires a free account, but their data matches Hopkins.

You told me, don't you remember?! You don't support me so that can't be it, and no...no pedo....who do you support? That guy who hollas at 10 year olds in public, lusting hard. Who was that guy again? He raped a 13year old at least once....it's on the tip of my tongue...help me out...who is that?

So, if I were a pedophile, that would explain how I know you support them. No denial though. Hmmmm. That's a public admission Bobby, Duh.

Stop posting this unscientific propaganda, pedophilia supporter.

Notice not one reference on any of his "data" because he likely made it up like he usually does.

His data doesn't match any verified data either, and his graphs are intentionally confusing, including individual states and countries in a completely unscientific propaganda graph, some countries with populations in the 70-80000 range. My guess is it's improperly presented this way to hide how bad America has done, with well over half the slots being US states and many of the remaining countries having tiny populations and third world conditions. This is the superstition side of the argument, not science based or scientific at all.

We have >200000 deaths with just over 2% infected. Herd immunity takes 70-80% being infected and a stable virus that won't mutate enough to erase immunity. That's a minimum of 7-8 MILLION Americans dead and p to 21-24 million permanently disabled if we have 1.6 million ICU beds....hint, we don't, so multiply the deaths by 4-7 but lower the disabled numbers, they'll die instead. So far, there's no study that shows herd immunity is even possible, since this virus mutates every few months it's unlikely. I think sacrificing millions - 60 million or more to find out is outrageously insane.

Use real, verified data, we are at best 8th worst (only 7 countries have more deaths per 100000 and 8th highest death rate per infection too). Just look at India, with 4 times the US population, just over 1 million fewer cases than the US, and way less than half the deaths....IN FUCKING INDIA.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/08/05/899365887/charts-how-the-u-s-ranks-on-covid-19-deaths-per-capita-and-by-case-count

Because our population is so large, that puts us at number one in total deaths with 4% of the population but 25% of deaths....so > 6 times the global average per capita and the most reported deaths by far.

Fail Bobski. Only the most uneducated rubes fall for this ridiculous nonsense.

Our health care system was stretched beyond it's limits with under 2% of Americans infected over a 9 month period, and even so 200000 died (likely more), some from lack of access to hospitals because they had zero beds available in entire states.
His plan is now to allow 35-40 times that many people to get infected in the next few years, which would lead to 7.3 million dead if we could give them the same treatment and mortality rate, but we simply cannot. 15-20% need ICU beds and equipment, in Trump's plan 9/10 won't get it at best, all those people will die, bringing the mortality rate up to as high as 20% +-.

.70 (expected minimum effective infection rate) x 350000000(population) x .20 (probable mortality rate without ICU care) = likely 49 MILLION +- expected dead if all goes to plan under Trump's herd mentality plan....an apt name since he's lining up Americans and sending us to the killing floors.

So somewhere between an optimistic 7.3 million and a pessimistic 49 million dead sacrificed Americans is his best idea (he knows tested widespread vaccines are years off and only good until the virus mutates, which it has already), plus any collateral damage from no functional health care and other factors. I can't fathom where this 3 million number that's being tossed around comes from, it seems insanely optimistic and not based in reality.

"Herd Mentality".... I think that describes all the idiots that think hes actually great...

Sounds like you picked the wrong game to play. Your passport has always been worthless.

Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
"Relax", said the night man
"We are programmed to receive
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave"

Welcome to the Hotel California

"...all of life's riddles are answered in the movies." - Steve Martin, Grand Canyon

"There's nothing like bringing in the herd"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PunAKEccqyU

You're almost right, some few unprofessional doctors say let >75% get it and build herd immunity. They're nuts, that's a guarantee of 10-12 million dead Americans at current reported death rates, and >triple that when you realize that without ICU care the death rate rises to 15%, near 45 million dead, and we are already at and over capacity.
Some doctors (likely many of the same irresponsible unprofessional morons) suggested taking Hydroxychloroquine was a good idea, until professionals proved them 100% wrong.

~4% REPORTED deaths, but we now know if someone gets it, recovers but with devastating lung and brain damage and dies a few weeks later of lung failure they don't count that as an official covid related death even when the death certificate does, so it's definitely higher than 4%, as if that's not high enough.
And what's the percentage that have lifelong debilitating effects like either permanently destroyed lungs or severe brain damage to name two?

Opening while cases are still rising, in direct contradiction to the CDC AND Whitehouse guidelines, guarantees another shutdown for longer, and the loss of far more mom and pop shops in the long run, so absolutely yes it's worth it.

Easy to say others should go back to work when you work from home.
Edit: in places where it CAN be done safely, including a minimum of guaranteed social distancing, masks, and sanitation at all times, I'm all for returning, but many if not most stores/shops can't, especially with the anti-maskers throwing fits. Our local stores limit customer numbers and some will act as personal shoppers for anti maskers and serve them curbside. We have had 200 cases county wide so far in the highest risk state, so it's working here so far.

Only kids under 10 are lower risk, kids over 10 are the same risk factor as everyone else, and under 10 can still bring it home to those more at risk. Restarting schools in states at high risk, nearly all states right now, is a guarantee of a longer, more deadly, more costly second wave.

When is open season on swine? We need to cull the herd badly.