Yes, he broke laws. Nice you joined us in reality for a moment.

What laws? How’s treason? How’s defrauding an election, election interference, attempted election interference, witness tampering, bribery and blackmail, abuse of power, deriliction of duty, incitement of insurrection, violations of the presidential records act, disruption of congress, murder of a police officer, etc. for starters, only looking at this single incident.
I know you want to say “nothing bigger than jaywalking, nothing burger….let’s investigate Hunter for maybe doing drugs as a private citizen and say Don Jr doing drugs while representing us internationally and doing government business is off limits.”

Come on, why not complain again that you don’t hear Trump’s side….just because he’s too scared to testify. Complain there aren’t more Republicans on the committee….just because they boycotted it. Complain about the witnesses despite nearly 100% being Trump administration officials or voters.

Hundreds of millions spent so you can’t name a law Clinton broke, hypocrite. The few millions spent to find out those responsible for a deadly coup is pennies compared to the costs of the failed coup. It actually costs exponentially less than the physical damage done to the building, estimated over $30 million….but the full cost of Trump’s tantrum and failed coup including deploying the national guard was WELL OVER $500 MILLION. A few million more to hold someone accountable and keep it from repeating is nothing, especially if we then sue Trump to recoup the losses (hint, he doesn’t have that much money).
Also, $4 billion spent on Greg Abbot’s performance stunt to halt trade at the border in the name of anti immigration that caught zero extra immigrants…that you supported…makes you just a tad hypocritical again….just a little bit.
To be clear, I’m saying you have no problem actually wasting, with no return on investment, thousands of times the amount spent safeguarding the nation from domestic terrorists with the bipartisan investigation.

The DOJ makes specific charges, not the investigative committee….since you seem confused again. The committee is smart enough to not telegraph the evidence supporting every charge they prepared for the DOJ. They only need to show enough to convince any reasonable person of his guilt, not every cultist. There is no amount of evidence of any criminality from any source that would convince your ilk that Trump’s treasonous and deadly crimes are worth prosecuting, convincing you is not the goal or even a concern.

What a joke comment you wrote and person you are.

How well do you follow Tesla? Most likely you answer is near zero. But you sure have all the answers.


Once again You foolishness is on full display. Cherry picking numbers? Thats ok

I said it was down a great amount. 20% or your 32% pick your date pick you %. Does not matter.

IF chicken was on sale 20% or 32% below normal pricing you would buy? Same with Tesla.


This is due to the overall economy. not from anything Tesla is doing. Tesla is is growing. 84% last year and 70% the year before.

This Q2 growth was only 50% . Mostly due the china shutdown. China is back up and running and at record capacity.



Biden economy and Communist fuckery is holding Tesla down , not Tesla. Hence it is a great buy.

Maybe your just a Union only guy? Thats OK.


Regardless of current stock price., who wouldn't want to buy the stock of a company growing 50% YOY?

I follow daily. I have about 1500 shares in the Tesla. And your are right I am down from that $1200 high. But I'm looking long term. 5 year min. I see explosive growth over nest 8 years.

Tesla goal is to make 20Million vehicles/year. Last year nearly 80 million vehicles were made globally. ICE vehicle sales are declining about 7% YoY since 2017. Al the while EV sales are growing.

What side of the fence do you wan t to be on? When Apple entered phone market they were a computer company. Today they have 20% of the phone market .



Apparently not the great intellectual foolish and ignorant @newtboy , who know everything about everything.


Finally, Now you want Elon to buy Twitter?
$1 billion penalty. That nothing to Elon.

Guess if MSNBC says something it must be true.
Newt, your one gullible dude, lady, sis whatever.

Ruh roe….after being subpoenaed, the secret service now says they still have the text messages from Jan 5-6 that they previously told the committee were all erased permanently. Funny how the story changed 100% only AFTER they were subpoenaed. Not good for insurrectionists. Also horrific for the reputation of the secret service who now looks like a deep state political tool for Trump.

Also being reported Trump intends to announce he’s running for president again before the midterms, despite the RNC and all cons up for election begging him not to. Sources say he’s outraged at the dozens of criminal and civil cases he’s facing and wants to use the office to shield himself from prosecution, and that’s his main concern and goal right now. Expecting another red tsunami? Lol.

Noooo….you still don’t like Biden. You still think self serving narcissistic Trump was a leader, but a lifelong frugal public servant isn’t. Nooooo! (I know there’s no breaking through your fantasy, bob. You are a lost cause, totally divorced from reality and totally uninterested in honesty).

No bob, I mean the Union…as in the United States of America. As in the Union vs the Confederacy. Trump nearly dissolved the Union, so much that Republican platforms now include secession as their goal. Derp. Another “L” for your column. Another dunce cap for your collection.
Republicans want to erase America out of infantile spite, but have no idea what to do afterwards. Better learn Chinese or Russian, red states can’t afford to defend themselves, you are all welfare queen states with the highest murder and crime rates.

Side note: But, this means you are anti union, so 100% anti worker? Really? What favors has Biden handed unions? Most unions (all you oppose) lobby for workers, blue collar employees. You would limit lobbiests to to those lobbying for billionaires and huge corporations (including religious corporations) that actively lobby against workers rights, pay, safety, ecological responsibility, hours, etc. Think about that.

You fucking moron, it went from 3.08% (higher than Trump ever reached) in 2015 under Obama to -3.5% in 2020 (the lowest ever in history). Who the fuck told you .2%? Who told you Trump left it at 2.5%? Overall Obama’s growth rate was actually 50% higher than Trump’s, and Obama inherited a deep recession, Trump inherited a boom. They outright lied to you, and you just lapped it up without ever looking. They’re feeding you poo pie bob, not chocolate. I really wish I didn’t have to spend so much time correcting your obviously fabricated statistics, especially since you only spout them to force a correction, getting you attention, not because you believe or even understand them. So you understand, printing 50% more money while your economy is in the worst contraction ever causes inflation, and that’s what Trump did in 2020 while focusing on the election he lost in a landslide and ignoring the pandemic and economy.

Jobs?!? Obama job growth was near 8% adding 12.5 million jobs, Trump was the only president ever to lose jobs, losing 3.2 million. Another 100% break from reality, buddy. I’m telling you, you need professional help.

Yes, Trump did turn us around, from a massive recovery and booming economy to massive economic losses, job losses, absolutely insane deficits and trying to double the debt, huge money printing in 2020 (magic wand waiving) that creates massive inflation (that he now blames Biden for), undreamed of losses of life, and teetering on the brink of depression and pandemic. He made us madder. For libs that means angry, for cons that means totally bat shit crazy with no ties to reality at all.

Far from it, lots of positive, but so much negative left from the previous one we are still in the red.

They have made policies that help the American pocketbook, Trump robbed it blind to hand to billionaires (and fake billionaires).

Who told you that lie. The Democrats have done everything they legally can to force oil companies to increase production and stop price gouging, Republicans all voted against doing anything, then claim “Biden’s fault”. No fossil fuel production has been cut. You’ve been lied to, and you aren’t intellectually honest enough to investigate for yourself…you don’t want to hear the truth.

Republicans are to blame for high fuel prices, Democrats are responsible for the recent lowering. Democrats are making efforts to lower them further, Republicans are 100% opposed to any actions.

Trump benefited on fuel costs thanks to the economic collapse he caused by denying and ignoring Covid for months, dropping the demand for fuel to nothing…not a good policy overall, or do you suggest killing another million and shutting down another year to lower gas prices?


Lol. You are claiming reports say the average American spends $500 more on fuel and goods per month than under Trump? What reports? Glen Beck, AON, or Rush Limbaugh’s ghost? Only if you are a trucker using hundreds of gallons of gas a month. Even in California, fuel cost has gone up less than 1/5 of what you say.

Trump cost you SO much more than $6k per year, over $60k per taxpayer on the official debt alone…and these extra expenses (probably $100-$200 per month tops) are thanks to Trump printing 1/3 of every dollar in circulation (inflation) and fuel supply and demand being out of hand intentionally because oil companies make more money by producing less, and aren’t nationalized so the government can’t force them to stop gouging.

Such nonsense bob. Your facts are all wrong, and since you won’t investigate you are just going to continue to believe the lies you were fed. The people you listen to are making money off your beliefs, bob, and they see you as a huge sucker they can convince of anything and get your money or support for their America destroying “get me richer quick” schemes.

🤦‍♂️

Summary, since I don’t think you can read that much.
Union = United States Union, not unions
Gdp- Obama 1.59% rising consistently during his presidency Trump 1% falling precipitously to the worst ever in history. Also never beat Obama’s high.
Jobs- Obama added 12.5 million, Trump lost 3.2 million
Debt- Obama added $9 trillion, ending a recession and creating a boom over 8 years. Trump added $8 trillion on the books (and trillions more off the books) in 4 years ending a boom and creating a recession
Deficit- 2020 was the biggest budget deficit ever by >200% at $3.13 trillion and added well over $4.2 trillion to the debt that year, way more than 2021 at a still horrific $2.7 budget deficit but ending adding only $1.5 to the debt.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

Oil/gas price - all cost cutting measures opposed by Cons.

No. It would not, imo. Mass shootings don’t help their positions.
Definitely not helpful to them if it sparked real political change.
It would only be “winning” for them if an armed civilian stopped the attack, but they don’t allow armed civilians at their events where they rally for the rights of any civilians to be armed anywhere but their events.
Edit: also, I don’t mind them “winning” if it means sensible gun laws that bar violent criminals and mentally unstable people from buying or carrying guns. I’m not anti gun, I’m anti unregulated guns.

My hatred is not their goal. If it were, they could save their money and pro-death stances, humanity as a whole did the job for them.

Their goal is to sell more guns. They’re an industry lobbying group, not a civil rights organization.
A little blowback from their own policies is exactly what’s needed to change some political positions. They’re cowards, but so far they’ve been safe behind their security, and the money is good.
Remember, the last meaningful gun control measure, background checks, came directly as a result of an assassination attempt against a pro gun Republican.

That would mean they are still winning.

EDIT: Their goal is to get you to hate. Don't fall for it.

Mr engineer, when there are two parties, sentence structure demands you use plurals….both sides have THEIR share of undesirables. An engineer should see grammar as a clearly defined structure that follows simple rules and just get it. Spelling is different, but grammar should be a no brainer….why is it so hard for you? Have you never seen it that way, or was engineering incredibly difficult for you too?

The difference being one side is all undesirables, and the level of undesirability. One side openly calls for an end to American democracy, death for their political rivals, death for anyone who disagrees with today’s talking point. One side has no party platform, no stated goals, and exists solely to stop any legislation the other side puts forth, even when it was something they want or that would benefit them. They are the same side.

We found another point of agreement.

Term limits are a must, and will never happen because our system does put the regulatory onus on those who need regulating….absolute insanity. It also lets them set their own salaries, ethics, and benefits.

Divestment is another must. Perhaps a bigger must. Total divestment across the board. Not just blind trusts that aren’t really blind, and absolutely not what we have now…the “honor” system run by the honorless. Allowing legislatures to write horrific laws because they can personally financially benefit is a recipe for disaster. That should (but never will) change.

Campaign finance is a third must. Corporations should have the same donation limits individuals have, which should be more like $100 each so every person can afford to have a voice, and we should return to an equal time on broadcast tv for free situation and deny the media as a political platform to give candidates a boost….no more Fox News interviews indistinguishable from campaign commercials, no more media smear campaigns, with severe penalties for violations, like $10 mil the first time, $25 mil the second, loss of fcc license the third. Another non starter….but needed badly.

PACs should be outlawed, or regulated into obscurity.

Some reasons often brought up in opposition to term limits can be traced back to Maddison who wrote "[A] few of the members of Congress will possess superior talents; will by frequent re-elections, become members of long standing; will be thoroughly masters of the public business, and perhaps not unwilling to avail themselves of those advantages. The greater the proportion of new members of Congress, and the less the information of the bulk of the members, the more apt they be to fall into the snares that may be laid before them,"

I think we have proven at this point the cons of self serving representatives legislating for personal gains outweigh the benefits of professional legislators, especially seeing as we have the internet and huge staffs to ostensibly level the playing field of knowledge.

One fix would be the creation of an ethics branch, completely non partisan, not self regulatory, with rules against former candidates (winners and losers) and lobbyists too from serving and strict rules about how they operate, and bans from running for office or being a lobbyist afterwards so it doesn’t become a campaign platform or tool for industry. Maybe even ban close family members from the same. Won’t happen, only the best people intentionally limit their powers, and they are few and far between in Congress….all but absent on your side.

A dollar has value if you can buy shit for a dollar.

Gold likewise has no exchange value if you cant exchange it for goods and services. Its rare and chemically stable and good for memorial coins, has many technical uses and looks cute, but otherwise it hardly matters what symbol for money you choose. There is 200 years of experience with fiat money and gold and silver standards and fiat money has been better, not just usually better or better in some scenario, universally better.

Symbolic money is practical and facilitates quicker turn around prevents deflation makes speculative runs on currency harder and smoothes the economic bumps in the road in general.

GDP is just a metric. Not a bad one but not the actual goal.

USofA is teh most developed. Should have used growing. Deflation in an economy that is growing kills growth.

Restarting countries not only get to ignore their debts, they immediatelly start borrowing again.

The only countries that dont borrow are countries no-one will lend to and countries so rich in some silly resource they can float high in the international currency system without borrowing. Borrowing is good for bussiness.

What is outrageous idiotic bullshit? Believing pegging the value of your paper note to some hoarded luxury makes it a better representation of the mean value of goods and services bought and sold? I could do without gold except for the jacks on my audio cables (just kidding). It does not matter what I exchange for food and gas, if it gets me food and gas, its good money.

Money is what you can pay taxes with. Do they take gold?

If you insist your dollar has the value of some weight of gold how does that influence the willingness of someone else to sell you shit? Unless they specifically intend to buy gold at a fixed price they dont care. They are going to use your dolar to buy some other shit from someone else. So if you take the actual currency out of the equation, when you decide on buying and selling shit you are intuitively comparing that decision with all the other decisions about buying and sellin that you know of. The currency is just a good way to count the measure of usefullness of a product or service and compare among many. Pebbles, bottletops, dollars, gold, pearls, all just a number.

A dollar could be backed by gold or it could not, this has zero impact on the transactions made. What matters is how many transactions are made, at what value, and how much money is available to the entire marketplace in a given period of time. Transactions quickly pass the ability of a gold standard to keep up. If you want a gold standard you have to slow transactions down because you dont have the money for them.

This is why markets need some regulation, otherwise someone might sell the universe twice and then default on one. But a gold standard, at least the type of gold standard I believe was talked about in this thread as a miracle cure, would be too limiting.

I assume you support the anti vax trucker protests and want to see them here?

Can you explain why?

Can you explain why it’s good for white truckers to protest against health and safety policy … to demand freedom from mandates requiring them to be adults and get vaccinated to save lives, costing hundreds of millions already and intentionally shutting down multiple industries with the goal of hurting the economy as much as possible….but bad for BLM to protest against racist police policies, demanding freedom from being put in prison or murdered with impunity by police for nothing beyond fear of their skin color, protests doing WAY less damage to economies, industry, and commerce? (Portland, which the right claimed was on fire all of 2020, estimated total costs at $23 million, <1/2 what Ford alone lost from the truckers so far).
BLM protests that, in fact, were more successful at changing policy….policy that needed changing unlike the mandates that need strengthening.

So…on board with truckers, or can you avoid blatant (most likely racist) hypocrisy?

Not smart for some/ most, agreed. Most people let some one else manage their $. Most people don't watch day to day.

I've been buying stocks for last 20 years. Took a lot of lumps. My main goal was to not to loose my shirt. A lot of lessons learned, mainly what not to do.

Main lesson learned was to find a Amazon.Target, Starbucks or Apple just as they become trendy. If you had bought and hold any of these for the last 10 years, you would be doing just fine. Tesla fits this model. Its 20 years old and finally over last 2 really planted its stake permanently as a auto maker. They are the EV leader.

That being said Tesla is easy to follow and see. There is enough active YouTube channels people reporting daily from around the world on Tesla. A person can fully understand this business and what is going on.

Other companies are more secretive and also no one really cares.


My final thought is this. IMO Tesla is at the same point as when Steve jobs introduced the iPhone in 2006.

Dont you wish you loaded up on apple back in 2006 @ $7 bucks a share? Apple close Friday was $168.

Its about the long game.

Currently holding 1400 shares.

With the current depressed price it is a fantastic buying opportunity. Lots of shit all all around but nothing has changed with Tesla.


Highly volatile stock but think long term of 5+ years.
Tesla stated goal to grow 50% every year. They have been doing this. Last year 2021 84% growth in vehicles.


I tell friends to buy and expect a loss ( big swings day to day) buy to hold and focus on the long game.


Who else owns Tesla shares?

As I've posted previously, If you want to see how fast change can happen watch this.

Um….the horse and buggy still exists. It’s the main transport in many (often poorer) places, even some in America (Amish country).

You’re insane if you think the internal combustion engine is dead. Even if that was the worldwide goal, it would take decades upon decades to pull off and tens-hundreds of trillions in subsidies….and even then there are hundreds of applications where electric doesn’t work for hundreds of reasons.
If you believe that, why do you support expanding oil exploration and offshore drilling? Why destroy the few places left unadulterated for a horrendous energy source you claim is phasing out soon. That’s incredibly short sighted and dumb.

Besides, you might be unaware, the electric car was more accepted than combustion engines before, at the turn of the last century. We’ve seen this movement before. It didn’t turn out as you predict.

Electric is great, but it’s not a panecea, and it’s not a painless switch.

Yeah, the crutch of it for me is the UBI moniker.

What you describe at the end of your post, minimum income, is really just a rewording of the existing social security and welfare systems across the western world. I know they look different in each, but here in Canada what you describe is more or less our already existing system's design goal. Welfare money exists for those that straight up can not work, and an employment insurance system exists to protect those inbetween jobs, meanwhile other multiple programs are aimed at distributing financial assistance to the lower income groups.

Despite all of that already existing, UBI is still being heralded up here in trials as well as a replacement. The problem being that for the needy the UBI pitches are generally a step backwards.

Eg. $500/month is the UBI pitch, and they say it'll be great because everyone gets it no matter what so it's simple and fair and nobody is left behind. The trouble though is that the reality is the truly in need people were already benefitting more than the $500/month under the existing systems, and the cost was much less because it was targeted.

I here UBI and get very worried about folks just selling snake oil 'solutions' that in the end are just a demand to adopt their own particular flavor of wealth redistribution.

from Asset Forfeiture
Policy Manual 2021


I. Guidelines for Planning for Seizure and Restraint
A. Background
The Department of Justice (Department) Asset Forfeiture Program (Program) encompasses the
seizure and forfeiture of assets that represent the proceeds of, or were used to facilitate, federal
crimes. The Program has four primary goals:
(1) Punish and deter criminal activity by depriving criminals of property used in or acquired
through illegal activities.
(2) Promote and enhance cooperation among federal, state, local, tribal, and foreign law
enforcement agencies.
(3) Recover assets that may be used to compensate victims when authorized under federal law.
(4) Ensure that the Program is administered professionally, lawfully, and in a manner consistent
with sound public policy

II. Payment of Attorneys’ Fees in Criminal Forfeiture Cases
A. Defendant’s attorneys’ fees
The defendant in a criminal forfeiture action may file for an award of attorneys’ fees only under
the Hyde Amendment.4 A motion for fees and costs filed in a civil forfeiture case under 28 U.S.C.
§ 2465(b) cannot include fees and costs incurred in even a directly related criminal proceeding.5
To prevail on a Hyde Amendment claim, the defendant must prove that: (1) the defendant was the
prevailing party in the underlying action; (2) the government’s position was vexatious, frivolous, or in
bad faith; and (3) there are no special circumstances that would make the award unjust.6
This burden
is heavier than the one the government must meet under the Equal Access to Justice Act (EAJA

BTW, can you tell me what the Republican plan is to solve these 3 issues?
(three of your complaints were the same issue, oil, and at least 3/5 are not factual or omit the reason inflation was down and oil was cheaper last year is 2020’s disastrous leadership exacerbating the pandemic, and causing economic collapse….inflation was about 4.2% sept-sept. Time to raise rates from zero and stop handing corporations free loans.)

…because McConnell has announced that, once again, the Republicans will have absolutely no party platform in 2022, no goals they’ll admit publicly beyond “stop the president”, no plans at all for how to fix anything you claim Biden broke. Obstructionism is the entirety of what Republicans stand for in the next election….obstructionism and clinically insane conspiracy theories….but they wear your jersey so you’ll vote for them and chant the slogans like a good little rube.

Edit: Because you clearly don’t know, Trump is by far the best at dumping gdp into the septic tank….-3.5% q1 2020. -33%q2. Biggest drop by far in living history including the Republican led recessions of the 80’s and 2000’s. His last year total is a negative 3.5%…and you’re complaining about single digit inflation!!! Ha!
Just like the debt and deficit, the economy only matters to the right when Democrats are in power, and is completely out of their control and not their problem when Republicans are. Trump in 4 years spent more than Obama in 8 without starting deep in a recession he ended (but instead ending by starting one) and without creating a national health care system or anything beneficial…instead of tax and spend he tried refund and spend double on monuments to divisiveness, on credit if possible.