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The Check In: Betsy DeVos' Rollback of Civil Rights

bcglorf says...

@newtboy
Short sighted tribal reasoning was electing a lying cheeto with anger issues because it wore red.
Fair enough

"Objecting to using race as one of many criteria for admission in favor of a single test that clearly benefits your group..."
I see the misunderstanding, I specifically did not ask for a test benefiting a group, but instead specifically asked for one that did NOT. I'll quote myself again:"a color blind computational method of creating a qualification score for candidates."

Since the school admission examples seem to be encouraging misunderstanding, let's change fields. The NBA draft doesn't come down to a single score, but it does have a best effort by professional experts to select the top candidates based upon ability and projected ability at the sport of basketball. By all appearances, that process could be said to "clearly benefit 'a' group", but because I am confident the process is color blind and selecting candidates based upon ability I like it.

To introduce race as a consideration instead is racism, period. You can argue that fighting racism with racism is justified or even desirable, but at least have the honestly to call it that.

Wild turkeys stalk cyclist

Is the Trump presidency a religious cult?

bobknight33 says...

Trump represents himself as the opposite of everything wrong with Washington DC and Hillary Clinton and the last 8 years.

His agenda to to MAGA. and to drain the swamp.

He is bring jobs back and lowering unemployment. The tag line "Its the economy stupid. " rings true. After 8 years of poor growth and leadership indicating 2% growth is the new norm, Damn right people want someone who promises better. And Trump is delivering on the economy. Hillary really didn't have a message.

World affairs-- Tentative , promising ? still evolving, but hopeful. Got 3 prinisors out of NK, alive. It's a start.

Draining the swamp, dozens not seeking reelection or just leaving.
DOJ, FBI, Fired,resigned , compromised
Anthony Weiner laptop search warrant was unsealed today. Now more bad news for HRC and many more.
But the wheels of justice moves slowly.

Also The Inspector General final Draft is nearly completed--

Also noted that the FBI had a snitch placed in the Trump camp and was feed bogus information -- A total FBI scam.


If Obama delivered solid growth Hillary would have been a shoe in, as repulsive as she is.

Like how you blame Republicans for destruction in 2008. BS but ok lets go with it and take ownership. Obama took ownership in 2008 and was responsible for fixing the mess and he failed.

Clinton stood for what ? LBGTQ and universal healthcare.

newtboy said:

Cults of personality are rarely about religion.
Are you saying evangelicals aren't real Americans, or that they're just all hypocritical liars disingenuously hiding behind religion?

If it was the economy. stupid, the Republican party would have disbanded in 2008 after they utterly destroyed it, and you would be a Democrat.

It's tribalism. It's all about 'my team's right, yours is wrong,' that's why fiscally responsible anti war moralists so easily turned into deficit and debt exploding pro war immoral liars...as long as they wear the right color tie, absolutely nothing else matters to you.

You admit Trump's a consummate liar, but you naively continue to believe his cheerleading fluff that comes with far less actual info than Clinton offered and changes daily as he is forced to face reality and indisputable facts. Why?

Have We Lost the Common Good?

HenningKO says...

By all historical evidence, that appears to be what we have and all we'll ever get: an ever-evolving draft. But... eh... it would be nice if we just found the final draft one day! Not gonna deny that...

ChaosEngine said:

I, for one, am glad it doesn’t exist. What has been perceived as “objectively moral” for most of human history has resulted in the oppression of vast swathes of humanity (basically anyone who wasn’t a straight white rich dude).

I would prefer to think that morality evolves with our knowledge of the world.

Sassy Trump: I'd Run In There Without A Weapon

"I would have run into Florida School ... Unarmed" trump

bcglorf says...

My favourite book quotes war as being most simply described as:
"Children are dying"

And as you say, when Trump had his chance he ducked, dodged and weaved every which way out of being drafted.

newtboy said:

Lol!
One word for that nonsense, president hero, bonespurs, you lying sniveling coward.
Forgot *lies

Republican Tax Scam Is Handwritten Nonsense

moonsammy says...

You're actually calling the Democrats in congress obstructionists? I'm reasonably certain we have as many federal vacancies as we do largely due to the Republican congress of the past several years doing their damnedest to block every single thing Obama tried to get done. That accusation is phenomenally hypocritical. I certainly acknowledge the current congressional Democrats have been voting no or voting to not proceed quite a bit lately, but they've also been cut off from the process of lawmaking to the highest degree possible. You can't expect cooperation from people that you don't even let sit at the table while laws are being drafted and discussed.

That last word was a joke of course - there's been damn near no discussion of this bill. The last time the United States had a major tax overhaul was also under republican oversight, in 1986. During the course of creating that legislation they took over 6 months and had more than a dozen hearings on it, ensuring reasonable transparency. This latest bill was slapped together over a few weeks and had a completely opaque process.

You claim the Democrats "fucked Americans" because they added 8 trillion to the debt. My understanding is this bill, over the next 10 years, will add a minimum of another trillion. The fact that it's so negative overall will also, due to existing law, require a balancing by way of cutting other programs - Medicaid at the least is expected to see major cuts, just as a side effect of this bill. Of course, it isn't really a side effect per se, they just couldn't get enough R votes if they either made the necessary changes to keep the bill deficit-neutral or included the provision that would've waived the mandatory cuts. So it's laughable to claim the current Republicans in congress really have an interest in being fiscally conservative or even moderate.

I'm likely wasting my time here though, as I don't think you're actually interested in engaging in an honest conversation, nor do you seem to be open to changing your viewpoint at all. I wonder though whether you know enough about politics from the last several decades to have a guess as what Republicans from the Reagan era would think about how things are being done today. My guess is they'd be appalled, but perhaps I'm overestimating them.

bobknight33 said:

No Dem would vote for it-- They are obstructionists.

At least Democrats had an hour to bitch ..

The AHA ( Obama Care) had to be passed to see what was in it.



To be fair. Democrats controlled most of the last 8 years and did nothing about tax reform. Shame on them. Sucks sitting at the back of the bus. --That"s what happens when you fuck Americans and heap 8 Trillion onto the debt. YOU LOOSE.

Republican will save the day , again.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

FBI Implicates Obama & Clinton In Russia Bribery Plot

Fairbs says...

guess what? Obama and Clinton are not in office, but amateur hour trump denigrates the office every day; the latest atrocity is lying about what he said the a dead soldier family; and to think the piece of crap draft dodger can accuse others of not being respectful; what a disgrace

Colbert To Trump: 'Doing Nothing Is Cowardice'

scheherazade says...

In open warfare of govt vs people, drones don't matter, just like jets don't matter. I already covered this above.



Nowhere is an oppressive dictatorship - until it is.
[redacted]
I feel like people are too distracted with instagram and other B.S. to bother learning about how the world works.
History is long. The current peace is an anomaly. When things go bad, there is little warning. If you're lucky, a year or so of build up. If you're not lucky, weeks or days. Shit likes to spiral.
In bad times, you have only what you have on hand.


Most western countries with [regardless of gun ownership] don't have a population that's F'd in the head.
Nothing stops a German gun owner from taking his AR15 and shooting up a concert.
Storing his guns in a safe that he can open doesn't mean anything.
Paying for a new license card for every few guns doesn't alter the guns.

Gun laws, as proposed, are fluff. Nothing that makes people safer, nothing that prevents ownership, but plenty to crap on collectors.
* 10 round limit = 2 second pause to reload
* Gun show loophole is a misnomer.
* (re. above) Only private sales (gun show or not) don't require checks - but you still end up in court if the buyer does something bad.
* Assault weapons ban only bans pistol grips and threaded barrels. Cosmetics. Just google "California compliant AR15" (they already have a de-facto AWB).
* There's already laws against straw purchase.
* There's already laws against crazy people buying (already part of the background check)
* Registration is pointless as gun control. Doesn't alter the guns or who has them (background check already tells gov who, when, and where bought a gun).

(I'd sooner vote for mandatory roll cage and 6 point harness in every car. Could eliminate 90+% of car fatalities in one rule - if people cared enough.)


By the way, gun owners hate people like the Vegas shooter even more than anti-gunners hate people like him.
Precisely because assholes like that shooter make anti-gunners turn on their frustration on innocent gun owners.

The call to "do something" is the phrase that perfectly describes the sentiments that led to actions, that in turn became described by either "famous last words" or "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".





We had shit health insurance before Obama. We had shit insurance during Obama (only you're required by law to buy it, even if it's not a good value), we continue to have shit health insurance during Trump, and no matter what trump does, it will still be shit.
Problem is that the insurance company lobbyists draft the language of the law (no matter the party in charge), and it's not for our benefit.





Re. Minorities, most are living normal lives. The white eutopia that the few vocal people complain about, doesn't exist. At least I have yet to see it. Don't let a few thousand people in a nation of millions guide your thoughts about overall social norms.

I'm happy to see them protest. Frankly, I wish white people had the same solidarity that black people have. When a black gets shot by a cop, they come together. When a white is shot by a cop, other whites say "he probably deserved it". I wish the black community good luck and success.





Yes, I wish we weren't jailing more people than anywhere else on the planet, over things that harm nobody.
I wish we had the drug laws of Portugal (decriminalization)
I wish we had the legal system of Sweden (no jail before conviction).

Know how I said that most countries don't have as many people that are F'd in the head? Same applies for people in government.
None of this shit will get fixes.
Republicans are bible thumping retards that funnel money to defense contractors and campaign donors.
Democrats are buck-passing censors that funnel money to insurance companies and campaign donors.
And people just pick a team and bark at the other team, while each gets fleeced by their very own side.

-scheherazade

ChaosEngine said:

Two words easily dismiss your entire argument: predator drones.

Look, there are plenty of other countries with high gun ownership rates, but a few sensible regulations stop this kind of shit happening, and guess what? Those countries aren’t oppressive dictatorships, they’re modern, progressive societies.

Meanwhile, the USA, for all your talk of guns preventing dictatorship is a disgrace. You have have bigoted asshole running your country, your healthcare is barbaric (and they’re trying to make it worse), your tax system is ridiculous and your minority citizens are being criticised for daring to protest about the systemic racism they have to endure.

Gun control won’t make your country “less free”, because it’s already ranked pretty low there. But it will certainly lower the number of mass shootings.

Shannon Sharpe on Trump, NFL and Protest

Trump Doubles Down on North Korea Threats: A Closer Look

Liberal Redneck - Transgender Patriots and the GOP

MilkmanDan says...

No NHS in the states. Personally, I think that'd be the way to do it. And I think it kind of needs to be a long and difficult road, to make sure that drastic option is necessary and won't be regretted later.

It's a bit hard for me to accept it, because I tend to think of it like that episode of South Park. Kyle can't actually become a tall black kid, and his dad can't actually become a dolphin.

But even though I think that is true -- you can't really become something you aren't -- I recognize that gender reassignment surgeries can be life saving / massively beneficial to quality of life in many cases.


To take a stab at answering your other questions:

I believe that Trump is saying that the military is instituting a blanket ban on transgender people from serving in the military. If / how the military elects to enforce that remains to be seen. I don't know the full timeline on that sort of stuff, but back in the 60's one (considered extreme at the time) way for young men to get out of being drafted to go to Vietnam was to take photos of themselves naked with another man (implying they were gay) or wearing women's clothing (implying they were trans). The mere implication that you might be either was enough to disqualify you from military service.

More recently, during Don't Ask Don't Tell you could be gay or trans in the military, but couldn't reveal that you were. That ended only 5-6 years ago. The military definitely wouldn't have paid for trans-related medical treatments prior to that, and didn't for quite a while after until Obama OK'd it.

Again, I don't really think that the military should be required / expected to pay for those kinds of treatments for soldiers, BUT I'd be 100% OK with something like the NHS making it available to any citizen, as in the UK. For one thing, I wouldn't want trans people to see the military as the only way to get those treatments (short of paying out of pocket), and having that be a major part of their motivation to join.

And I 100% agree that this is a basically a political distraction that sets back the rights and acceptance of an already marginalized group that in no way deserves it.

Jinx said:

So

I don't know how it is in the states, but in this country if you want to go through gender reassignment you will get it for free on the NHS. Its a long road, it isn't easy, they make it hard etc, but like anything else that poses a risk to somebodies health it is paid for by the state. I feel like a lot of people consider reassignment a sort of frivolous sex thing but being unable to escape the body in which you are born is, you know, desperately depressing. I don't think I am exaggerating when I say that surgery and hormone treatment are potentially lifesaving, and certainly greatly improve the quality of life in most cases.

Couple of things I don't understand - Is this the military saying they will no longer pay for treatments associated with gender reassignment, or is this a blanket ban on transgender men and women from serving in the military? One wonders why the military can't spend even a fraction of the amount is spends on toys on its servicemen/women...

Anyhoo. It's a distraction. Not trying to suggest that it is a minor thing for those affected, but I really think this is to divert the left and win back support from the right. It sucks dreadfully that a minority group is again used as target for political maneuvering and it is worthy of resistance but I can't help but feel we are playing into their hand by doing so.

@bobknight33 I pity you.

Great Moments in Congressional Hallway History

newtboy says...

If you don't want to be a public figure who is constantly questioned about your actions, statements, and plans, don't run for public office. Not one of them was drafted into public service, and they are compensated exceedingly well for the privilege. That goes for both parties.
As elected representatives, it's part of the job to explain yourself any time you're in public, and the halls of congress are public spaces.

AHCA: A Republican Response to The Affordable Care Act



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