They spread misinformation and disease...

Both are blights on society and costly of insurance dollars / government aid.

Your comparison of the unvaccinated to those who practice unprotected sex is valid. Both, usually, are the result of ignorance and inconsideration. With no regard to how it affects others or themselves.

You're clever. Like Colbert's old character. Act like your supporting something, all the while giving examples damning that support.

Bob the satirist. Who knew?!

https://www.foxnews.com/us/mississippi-orders-coronavirus-infected-people-to-isolate-at-home-or-face-up-to-5-years-in-prison

Good. We already punish people for not avoiding spreading other deadly diseases [see AIDS] these people need to be charged similarly with murder

See https://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-with-hiv-charged-with-murder-in-infected-partners-death/

And if someone gives a person a ride to a gas station and then the passenger kills the clerk mid robbery. The driver, regardless of what happens next, is charged with the exact same crime by association. So too should the "tresspassers" be charged for the dead on Jan 6th. But what Am I saying? I saw that crowd boo when trump said get vaccinated this Saturday. They've already resigned themselves to death because of rhetoric the likes of which you help propagate. Shame on you. Go get vaccinated, dumbass.

How long before Hulu makes a movie about insane anti vax cultists who don’t believe COVID is dangerous but when they get COVID are over running the medical systems in red states where vaccinations are falling behind to the point that no other illnesses or emergencies can be dealt with and even responsible vaccinated people are dying from lack of medical care, dying from non life threatening injuries and illnesses that minimal care would have prevented, but hospitals are full and clinics closed because their personnel were needed at local hospitals?

Can we please create a policy that, without a vaccine “passport”, no patient is allowed in any hospital that takes a dime in public funding? Let the right wing denier cultists die from the disease they deny exists, they said they gladly would, but in the quarantine cages set up in parking lots, not at home, not in hospital beds, but under freeway overpasses and lower level subterranean parking lots. No responsible vaccinated citizen should be turned away to serve the deniers like is happening in red states today, but they can’t be allowed back in public for weeks at a minimum.

Just as your right to swing your fist ends firmly at my nose, your right to be an idiotic anti science virus incubator and virulent disease vector ends firmly at your property line.

Isn’t it hilarious that right wingers want to use personal sovereignty, control and authority over your own body, as a shield from responsibility for their dangerous, deadly actions, but absolutely refuse it’s existence when it comes to women having authority over their own bodies, ie abortion/birth control.

Here's a measles virus
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/c/2c/c2c40270-a385-51ca-9e81-e4e7590c0c29/5ab25d6beef47.im
age.jpg

Here's a covid 19 virus
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/b91cef_2cd215ed15f544c4ae7a3a287e8baf1c~mv2.png/v1/fit/w_740%2Ch_296%2Cal_c/file.png

Here's a common flu virus
https://hms.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/assets/News/2015/images/Sep/flu%20micrograph.jpg

---------------
We have a lot
a WHOLE LOT< < < < < < < < < < < < < of experience fighting viruses that are corona types. We KNOW how to make good vaccines for coronaviruses.
---------------

And you're just wrong about being forced to be vaccinated

"It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law"

AND furthermore
https://casetext.com/case/matter-of-viemeister-v-white
"independently of any specific menace of disease, a regulation excluding unvaccinated children from the public schools is reasonable, valid and constitutional."
"the case also highlighted that claims of vaccines harms, when the majority of scientists disagree, would not be enough to lead the court to overrule the legislature. "

And i'm pretty sure most scientists agree, but even if they didn't, no, it's not just your choice. The fact is, your health affects the people around you. It's not just you looking out or not looking out for your own best interests.


ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Even if I think you're an asshole and want you to stop spreading your non-fact-based-rhetoric around, if there's one less person who can get sick and spread covid, we're all better off. Don't mistake me. I'd be happier if you shut the fuck up a lot more. But I don't want you to die. It's like talking to my trump 2024 father over here. Get vaccinated already dumbass.


p.s.
Why aren't you concerned about fiscal matters here? It costs the gov more to let someone become hospitalized than a it costs to vaccinate them. Aren't you worried about all that wasted spending?

My recollection is, from maybe as early as Feb 2020, immunologists had studied the DNA and rna of the virus and said unequivocally that it was not "created" using any known method of gene manipulation or DNA recoding. Since that's what most people think China is being accused of, it's important to be clear that this possibility was ruled out early and without question....all known methods of creating viruses by gene/DNA manipulation leave tell tale evidence that can identify the exact type/method of manipulation done, and none was found.

It's possible that the lab, through unnatural selection, developed the natural disease into something more dangerous then lost containment...I don't see how, without records indicating they did that, it would be possible to differentiate between that and natural selection in the wild. IMO it's most likely to have spread from wet markets while also being studied in the lab that exists because these diseases are prevalent naturally in the area.

this is a fine example of what a year locked up does to a body.

sure. willing to listen to the p o s s i b i l i t y of corona being manufactured, but have some hard evidence. please. in a country billions +, origins of swine, bird, and ABC123 lettered viruses - it's not unreasonable to expect a lab to be located in a region where the pandemic started.

as it is, not versed in immunology (nor psychology or 'why are the following me') so rely on those who know (and don't have stock in Alcoa). that and the experiences of a lifetime being ginned up preparing for the next life-altering bug.

herpes, aids, penicillin-resistant gonorrhea/syphilis/chlamydia/TB, cjd, zika, lyme, west nile, ebola or the plethora of viruses, of eastern origins, that could become the next Spanish Flu.*

all those diseases have natural origins.

so, yeah. this pandemic wasn't a surprise. no more than Hurricane Katrina (why did they build that bridge over Lake Pontchartrain) or why the ere-orange administration left a 'play book' for Virus X.

it was foreseen, it happened, and could happen again. much more likely another flaming arrow from natures' quiver. (shivers given via a quiver?)

Occam's razor, in essence (should have led w/that).


* even new strains of hepatitis caused waves for a while and there was a bit of time, a virus in the NW USA was akin to airborne aids but disappear as quickly as it came and schistosomiasis has come closer to our shores - - - AND NOW -https://www.livescience.com/mystery-brain-disease-cluster-canada.html that hopefully isn't the precursor to zombie-itis.

You really believe this crazy bullshit then, eh? I thought some of it was an act.

Yo;

Yes of course. Of course they did. Because it's a

REAL DISEASE THAT PEOPLE GET IN REALITY

So when he encourages behavior that promotes spreading disease, says it'll 'magically go away', and closes the boarder with China BUT puts enough exceptions in the China travel ban that 40,000 Americans/Chinese diplomats come back to three usa


Yes. When he's saying people are immune when THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE yeah, i expect that they should complain about it.

Rightly so. He's responsible.

He eradicated the agency that was protecting us from exactly this kind of disease. He let it in the country by only stopping Chinese people from entering, he let it spread by refusing to quarantine, he made it exponentially worse by telling you idiots it was just the flu, go about business as usual. He did nothing right and failed miserably to lead.

This is the Trump pandemic, I blame all American deaths on his actions directly. We had every opportunity to avoid any outbreak at all, and he squandered every single one.

What am I saying, this is all going to be over on November 7th, 2020. Right?

Remember? The fake disease that the democrats made up to make trump look bad? Liberals are insisting that it IS a real disease, WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?

You don't want a vaccine? Lovely. We will be canceling your health insurance. Since you've chosen to be a complete cunt, we've chosen not to pay for your utter cuntiness.

I work in health insurance. The three biggest contributors to the price of insurance are:
1: fraud (doctors are notorious for this)
2: general waste (upbilling; unnecessary tests that are only performed to keep the fucking ambulance-chasing lawyers from filing malpractice suits because someone got the shits from an antibiotic)
3: PREVENTABLE HEALTH ISSUES. This includes obesity, smoking, not exercising, not getting annual checkups and atrocious dietary habits as first-order issues. If not corrected, these lead to more expensive and longer term second-order issues: diabetes, heart disease, cancer, vascular disease. These issues start a feedback loop with the second-order effects cause immobility which contributes to increasing first-order effects which amplifies second-order effects -- lather, rinse, repeat.

Now add a good case of Covid to that mix. If you end up on a ventilator for two week, there's a mil-plus in hospital bills: someone has to either pay that (welcome higher insurance rates!) or the hospital has to eat it (welcome even HIGHER insurance rates!) You can bitch all you want about the cost of healthcare in America, but you're paying for every dumb, entitled asshole who spouts shit like MUH FREEDUMS!! when asked to do basic things to protect themselves and others.

tl;dr: your idiot views of what the actual fuck "freedom" is ends at my wallet. Fuck you and get your goddamn vaccine. And put down the Cheetos while you're at it.

I thought I addressed that. Travel was also open between states, and many countries with "free travel amongst nations" had no-travel/stay at home orders in place, unlike the U.S., and afaik, mandatory quarantine for all international travelers.

Again, because he eradicated the international Global Health Security and Biodefense unit, I can legitimately ascribe every single non Chinese death and most Chinese deaths to his actions directly. A pandemic on this level WAS foreseen after SARS, Ebola, and Swine Flu, it's why we created the GHSB. It's why we had a pandemic response plan that Trump completely ignored and actually denied it existed for months and months.

I also am going by facts. My facts say that at least four things Trump did against professional advice took us from prepared to minimise any pandemic to at worst a foreign epidemic to a place where months after pandemics start our leader denied any danger and made no moves to stop it.
1) Eradication of the GHSB, missed opportunity one to have zero US cases and avoid a pandemic completely.
2) Repeated early public denial of the danger while encouraging others to do the same and go about business as usual, missed opportunity two to have zero US cases, and a missed opportunity to minimize any spread if quarantining travelers (something else he failed miserably to even consider early on) failed.
3) Encouragement of those who trust him to ignore all mitigation efforts, don't mask, don't social distance, don't shut down non essential businesses, don't close schools, don't listen to medical professionals....missed opportunity number three to minimize US infections to thousands instead of hundreds of thousands. Remember the many months he said grandma would gladly die to get people back to work, pretending many months in that only feeble octogenarians get sick?
4) Denial of a prepared response plan, never following it and claiming total ignorance, missed opportunity number four to follow prepared plans based on science from day one, missing the opportunity to keep our infection rate at S Korean levels.

That's four well researched and vetted moronic, irrational, and irresponsible mistakes he personally made that multiplied our infection rate by 100- infinity times (if we could have had zero without his multiple massive and stupid mistakes, which is not just possible but likely, he can be said to have CAUSED every single US case, multiplying our infections by infinity.). There were more, but I'm beating a dead horse.
Remember, his real plan was natural herd immunity, with an expected 3-60 million deaths depending on who you asked.

I say if intelligent decisions could have avoided all US infections, and that's undeniable IMO, you can lay the blame for as high a percentage as you like on the leader who made bad dangerous decisions out of pure narcissistic ignorance and hatred of his predecessor...up to 100%. 80-90% still seems like I'm coddling him, at least two failures could have made cases zero, and others minimized it to under 10% of what we have. All four I listed almost certainly allowed >90% giving every doubt and giving him all possible credit....so yes, I'm satisfied I'm not exaggerating.

Obama's responsible and responsive planning and execution stopped Ebola from ever spreading here despite it making it to our shores, and it was FAR more contagious and deadly. Had we had Trump then doing the same things, there would be tens of millions dead and likely still spreading disease, imo.


Edit: let me try analogy...If a mayor removes the stop signs from 4 way highway intersections, they are responsible for every wreck that happens, even though other towns with stop signs still have wrecks at intersections. Trump pulled the signs, removed the flashing red light, and cut first responder funding, and claimed there never was a highway code to follow and he takes no responsibility for the jump in highway deaths.

Yes, they had isolation we don't, but also had fewer resources to work with by far, and are much closer to the outbreak in China with tons of travel between countries. I would say having a reasonable, thoughtful population that wanted to avoid being someone who spread the virus and killed people, so followed instructions nearly without exception, compared to the U.S. who had a leader denouncing closings, masks, and social distancing and a population that was happy to spread the disease for political reasons. I think that has WAY more to do with our horrific , worst on the planet per capita despite the most resources by far outcome.

We only have two borders to close. Canada is easy, just ask nicely and they'll stay home. The border with Mexico is a problem, granted, I found it odd Trump didn't use emergency powers to finish his fence when he had a legitimate reason, but that would mean admitting Covid is dangerous, but if we cooperated with Mexico to secure the border we could have minimized all international travel early.

Back to Canada, with two open borders. They have 23000 and a population of 37.59 million, so they also have a per capita death rate well under 1/2 ours, close to 1/3, and they also could have done better if we had done better. It's impossible to figure out what percentage of their infections came from the U.S., but it's definitely a significant number.

Other nations have divisions, if not states, provinces, prefecture, or some other separation of areas. I don't agree that because we have states in our country we are like the EU, because a federal law or executive order covers all states and territories, the EU has no such mechanism as far as I know.

We were the only nation with an international Global Health Security and Biodefense unit, with teams in China and elsewhere, designed to identify new diseases early to avoid pandemics. Trump is totally responsible for dismantling that office, meaning there's a likelihood every non Chinese death and most Chinese deaths would have been avoided had Trump not been butt hurt over a good system set up by Obama. His racist and political hatred put the planet at risk. That alone puts most deaths, U.S. and global, directly on his hands.

Also, the EU population is double ours, meaning with all the multiple open borders and haphazard mix of regulations from different countries, and the enormous immigrant populations, and some actual temporary lockdowns in some of their countries (but not all by far) their infection/death rates are barely over 1/2 what ours are per capita. That's not on par, sorry.

Some of their leaders have some blood on their hands because of poor or slow decisions, but few actually fought against all science and public health measures, denying the mortality rates and doctor's recommendations to convince their populations to do nothing at all to mitigate the pandemic...Brazil did....look at them now. Yes, the president of Brazil absolutely has blood on his hands, and his response mirrored Trump's.

We are about the worst country in the world ATM but not for lack of stupid regulations.

Wearing masks in closed spaces where you meet strangers is obviously good while not 100% effective. Same goes for large groups, packed, for prolonged time outside.

The jury is still out on what "being vaccinated" or "having antibodies" means exactly for the spread of the disease.