Man, I still remember it. Sept 11th happened and two weeks later I was on a plane from the East Coast to move to San Francisco. It was a frightful plane ride but once I got here I exhaled deeply. Little did I know that the next seven or eight years would be like the dark ages for America (not in San Francisco though -heh, heh, heh).

The media were the Bush Administration's little lap dogs for nearly the entire time. I remember all the huge protests that happened around the world in the build up to the War in Iraq and how the media treated them. They either did not report on them or made them all seem like a bunch of window smashing anarchists like the ones seen during the WTO protests in Seattle. I remember the day we dropped bombs in Iraq on March 21st 2002. I remember being let out of classes at college to help shut San Francisco down. Some group called ANSWER had organized an event a long time and coming that if we went to war in Iraq, San Francisco would not be "Business as Usual".

I was arrested with several hundred people, thousands had been illegally "detained" - we filed a Class Action Lawsuit with the International Lawyer's Guild against the SFPD and won our case to have charges of "inciting a riot" withdrawn. We won in the court aftermath but the cops still won; they took people out of it one by one and successfully defused the situation - we were peaceful protesters, no one had any sort of revolt on their mind, except for the anarchist kids and they definitely were there, they were a massive thorn for the entire situation.

We shut it down for five days with the help of thousands upon thousands of people and thousands of riot cops. Major media did not report on it. Maybe, it was cliche of San Francisco residents to force the city out of commission for several days but it was newsworthy.

This is a good interview. I appreciate how Rumsfeld is able to steer blame and corruption even in front of Stewart. He's truly a wicked and greedy man.

I didn't mean that the US doesn't have direct historical significance to this situation and to our puppet dictator they're trying to oust, and I do know that many of the tear gas canisters have "Made in the USA" written on them, and Egypt is #2 in direct military aid from the US.

But for this specific revolution, the US really needs to back the fuck away and let things play out organically. At first I was upset with the Obama administration, but now they're really backing off and letting the people decide their own fate.

THAT is what I meant.

We need to realize that sometimes, the west has zero importance. And we keep asking questions like a) what should WE do? b) what does this mean for the US? The answer to both is, mostly nothing.


>> ^rychan:

Take the tinfoil hat off. I don't think Mubarak has a strong hold on the military.
Look at the military in Turkey -- they are something like protectors of the republic not protectors of the rulers. I think the military is doing absolutely the right thing -- trying to defuse the situation without picking sides.
And volumptuous, this does have plenty to do with the United States. One could claim that Mubarak still being in power has something to do with US support. One could also say the military being well equipped and well behaved has to do with the fact that the US supplied them and trained thousands of their officers.
>> ^Skeeve:
Agreed, this looks to me like a genius tactic by the government - they keep the situation from escalating, and keep the civilians from meeting the police with violence, by having the military look like benevolent peace keepers between the two sides. The military may be holding back the protesters in a 'friendly' manner, but they are still holding back the protesters.
>> ^rottenseed:
How's this not the military trying to impede the advancements of the protesters and/or to keep the situation from escalating?

Take the tinfoil hat off. I don't think Mubarak has a strong hold on the military.

Look at the military in Turkey -- they are something like protectors of the republic not protectors of the rulers. I think the military is doing absolutely the right thing -- trying to defuse the situation without picking sides.

And volumptuous, this does have plenty to do with the United States. One could claim that Mubarak still being in power has something to do with US support. One could also say the military being well equipped and well behaved has to do with the fact that the US supplied them and trained thousands of their officers.

>> ^Skeeve:

Agreed, this looks to me like a genius tactic by the government - they keep the situation from escalating, and keep the civilians from meeting the police with violence, by having the military look like benevolent peace keepers between the two sides. The military may be holding back the protesters in a 'friendly' manner, but they are still holding back the protesters.
>> ^rottenseed:
How's this not the military trying to impede the advancements of the protesters and/or to keep the situation from escalating?

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Why does the guy wait so long to step in? He could have defused this in seconds.


maybe he was waiting for them to rip their clothes of and start mudwrestling or something. isn't that how those things end? i don't know, i don't get out much.

Why does the guy wait so long to step in? He could have defused this in seconds.

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>> ^westy:

the viscosity of the material seemed wrong. I think liquid texture seemed to have to much of a defuse reflection.
other than that pritty nice .


Agreed; this is one thing I've always noticed with nearly all liquid rendering... the surface is almost always reflects too much light. Perhaps the surface tension simulations just aren't up to par yet? In natural liquid movement I think it tends to be much more disrupted and light absorbing...

Edit: I should also say that I'm not trying to say this isn't still great.

the viscosity of the material seemed wrong. I think liquid texture seemed to have to much of a defuse reflection.

other than that pritty nice .

well, it's hard to come up with a compelling argument for: "listen to those right wing crackpots"

generally you defuse situations by opening up and exchanging ideas.
declaring people as political terrorists tends to accent the divisions.

and defusing situations is hard. acting macho is easy.

"To be clear, it was your dumb threat to longe that was the offender here, not the comment you tacked on after the fact. "

Um... he wasn't threatening at all, he was saying he was moving away from the conflict... what EBM did in an effort to defuse things. It would seem like you've reacted in exactly the same way the idiot did in this video and continued to try to provoke... nice.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
I find the tension and conflict of this video interesting, but I don't think there is any justification for making the old guy a hero or internet celebrity. He clearly has issues and seemed to be just as interested in violence as his counterpart.
I think peggedbea is right, that interjecting race into the title and tags is creepy, and issykitty makes a good point as to how appealing this has become to the racists of youtube. It doesn't mean that everyone who voted for this is a raging, lynching klansman, but it may be indicative of the subtler prejudices that all of us harbor deep inside our subconscious. Either way, it's worthy of discussion.
If this hot, viral video were framed as two crazy idiots fighting on a bus, I wouldn't see much problem with it, but that's not how it's been framed. Instead, it's young black thug vs. elderly white marine. Or even worse Ignorant, illiterate black gangbanger vs bearded Nordic God.
In America, intercity blacks are feared. They are portrayed in the media as either criminal thugs or lazy bums who live off of government aid. The only positives you ever hear are about the occasional football or basketball player who gets a scholarship and escapes. Black neighborhoods are avoided by white people, who describe these places with words like 'scary' 'sketchy' or 'rough', but if you actually take the time to explore these areas, you find regular people. People who work. People who love their children. People who mow their lawns. As a white person, I've felt no overt prejudice against me in these places. I've felt no danger or threat upon my personal safety. It's just not the warzone it's made out to be in the media.
For some, this video will not only confirm false media stereotypes, but also goes the extra mile to punish that stereotype with violence. Don't get me wrong, the black guy in this video seems like a creep, and goes to great lengths to live up to the most negative of negative black stereotypes, right down to his inability to pronounce a very common word, but for many, this one single man's behavior will serve as a confirmation and justification for irrational, subconscious racial fears.
I'm not judging nomino, or anyone. I voted this thing up, myself, before bea and issy gave me some pause, so I'm not claiming to be better or wiser than anyone else here. Race is a really tough subject for Americans, complicated by history, tradition, media, politics and economics. I think it's OK to find this conflict on a bus compelling, and to also admit that there might be more going on in our subconscious minds than we'd like. dark fear
Since I'm in the confessional, I might as well mention that I wish I could take my vote back from another video, featuring a European man slapping a woman, causing her to cry. Lots of subconscious shit going on there too.


I agree both the guys would have been wiser to defuse the situation. It's an expensive risk to absorb that anyone you meet like that might be carrying a knife or a gun. The stakes in life are high, and all it takes is one bout of bad luck...

I can understand it sucks for the younger guy... he can't complain since he certainly carries some amount over 50% of the responsibility for what happened, but his brain made him think it was a good idea, and now he just feels more victimized by life than he did before he got the tables turned on him.


"He clearly has issues and seemed to be just as interested in violence as his counterpart."

I think it's certainly a good instinct to be understanding of both sides... it's a higher human impulse... but it seems like this can also go so far as creating a false symmetry. The younger guy (1) did force the older guy to the other side of the bus, (2) did then go after him and throw the first punch, and (3) did legally commit assault (touching someone who doesn't want to be touched, particularly while threatening violence). For all the old guy knew, the next punch could have had a knife with it.


describe these places with words like 'scary' 'sketchy' or 'rough', but if you actually take the time to explore these areas, you find regular people ... confirm false media stereotypes... this one single man's behavior will serve as a confirmation and justification for irrational, subconscious racial fears... there might be more going on in our subconscious minds than we'd like. dark fear."

Yeah, it's good to not excessively vilify high crime areas... but I feel like some of this goes so far as to imply that statistics are irrational. On another note, this video would be just as appealing to many people if it featured an Aussie thug (a small minority of Aussies) and an Indian-Australian.


That being said, I think you're right... it'd be better to not inject race into the title, and most people who live in statistically risky areas are good people, same as everywhere.

That's pretty typical for Youtube comments, which is why I never even bother looking at them.

As far as who is "right" or "wrong" in this video, try to picture if both of these people were the same color. Neither of them were willing to let the other have the last word, but the older guy at least tried to defuse the situation by moving away.

i can't wait. i hope it ends with the bombing going off before he can defuse it.

I think the title is a bit misleading, I don't hear anything that gives this person away to being a conservative. He asked a couple of good questions that someone would obviously come up with given the information they find in the mainstream media. His question about the family defending the murderer is pretty much what you would get from the media, that "Afganistan" is refusing to hand Osama over, they reap what they sow. Chomsky defuses this with simple sober facts, which were reported he's not coming up with his own research project or own sources he takes these things from serious national sources, just not reported in the same headline drumbeat towards War.

You can find everything he says in newspapers and serious journals of international affairs. A lot of the best information he gets is from the Wall Street Journal.

This in my mind goes hand in hand with the other Chomsky video where he says we shouldn't ridicule the Tea Party Protesters. If you're a serious person you'll work towards correcting ignorance where you find it, not dismissing it and just calling people morons left and right.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

I think the fried chicken stereotype could apply to anyone of very dark complexion here in Australia. I have heard it used towards aborigines here. I need to get my cricket tragic mate @mofodoobs to chime in. >> ^kymbos:
I'm particularly interested in your view for that reason, Dag. But does it matter that they aren't African Americans? The ad depicts a fan who has found himself surrounded by opposition fans, but who defuses any potential tension by sharing KFC with everyone. The ads were shown while the West Indies were touring for the cricket. If it had been England, there is no doubt that the ad would have had English fans (the Barmy Army).
The point is, African Americans loving fried chicken is an American stereotype and an American sensitivity. Should it be an issue for an Australian ad for an Australian audience? Does context matter? I think the problem is that no ad is local anymore, with the internet and all.