What?
Try reading. Your entire post makes no sense except as a trolling attempt.

I don't "see how my arguments don't hold water", I never said anything of the sort, and you can't explain how they don't, still. In fact, you can't seem to even comprehend my argument. You certainly haven't replied to it.

What I did day is I was incorrect about one minor point because apparently she canceled the one event NOT on the advice of the police (even though at the time that's what was reported)....but because the police in this case didn't take safety or death threats seriously at all and refused to limit firearms at the event in any way or offer her/the audience any protection, so canceling this one event was intelligent and proper.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58521856-78/sarkeesian-usu-video-feminist.html.csp

You have not shown her to be a 'full of shit con artist'. For your proof of her evilness and hatred and derision of sex workers, you pointed me to 2 vitriolic commentaries about a single innocuous phrase she said with no context to show her intent/meaning, and a third completely unrelated article about Westborough Church, and now you say that proves something? Still better than your first try which turned out to be by a guy who begins by clearly explaining how his organization cuts and re-edits videos to show what he wants rather than what actually happened. Who's full of shit now?

I never said "But if". Please stop making shit up to get angry about, it's the third time in this thread alone that you've attributed things I never said to me, twice in this single post. That's a useless infantile trolling argument style right there.

And so now you make up your own ridiculous, statistically impossible "What if" scenario to prove....? I guess to prove that you'll make up and believe any crazy thing rather than concede there was a specific danger she attempted to avoid (and I will note she didn't cancel other events where firearms would NOT be allowed inside, even after the threats, so what's your point in the first place?)


I made the point quite clearly above, I'll repeat it for your convenience. If this was an airplane flight with a bomb threat, it would have been canceled. It's statistically far more likely that the shooting threat is credible than any airplane bombing threat, so if it's reasonable to cancel the threatened flight (and they do), it's more reasonable to cancel the event.

You're just trolling here now, you're not making any salient point and you're just blatantly making things up to argue about. I think you're just pushing to be ignored now.

EDIT: and damn, I totally missed the racist bit the first time through your post. " ..What if that "good guy with gun vs. black bad guy with a gun" bullshit actually worked out." I'm thinking it's a mistake to continue engaging someone I would avoid in real life like the plague, so buh bye.

I'll agree too, they are toxic. I just had not said it before.

I only know about the whole gamer gate thing because of the reported insane threats that required police intervention and cutting off the youtube comments etc., and I don't think I'm odd in that respect (I know I am odd in many other respects). I never thought cutting off the comments had anything to do with stifling debate. I could be wrong, but I need to see evidence to convince me. EDIT: as I understood it, she only cut them off after the threats, not right after the criticism.

I think any threat to kill or rape someone in writing is serious. I remember it being reported that she was instructed to cancel personal appearances, that may have been inaccurate, but it's what I recall reading about the case.

Well, yes, you caught me being inadvertently sexist by saying 'single woman'. Mea Culpa. I should have said a person. Their sex and marital status is irrelevant, but I was thinking about her personally, not in general. I think death threats are serious, no matter who they're made against...same for rape threats, men get raped too. People bold enough to make public written threats should be taken seriously, IMO.

Well, even if you did say they were toxic I'd have agreed with you, like others here have said any reasonable comments made would have been buried under a metric fuckton of bullshit anyhow.

I think there is a misunderstanding here however, when GenjiKilpatrick and others are talking about Sarkeesian "being called on her shit" they mean the reasoned criticism, not the threats, nobody here is arguing in favor of that.
I am curious though, unless you know something about these threats that I don't, how do you know that they are in fact "Serious"? Most people can dream up all kinds of crazy shit or even talk about it, but that still doesn't put you into Dexter Morgan territory (Dexter would be too polite to say anything like that anyhow, and Sarkeesian doesn't fit Harry's Code).
If you are referring to the UCU lecture that she cancelled, then no, neither campus security nor the FBI advised her against going through with the appearance, she made that choice on her own.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58528113-78/sarkeesian-threats-threat-usu.html.csp

You also say "It's unseemly to imply a single woman should ignore such threats or assume they are not credible", which makes me wonder if this was a man we were talking about would you still feel the same way? Adam Orth received death threats to both himself and his family and while it did create a lot of discussion, even heated discussion, it did not generate the same kind of mass outrage that this has so far. Gabe Newell also got a threat from a developer some time back and that got barely a peep out of anyone.
Simply put, we still live in a society that puts on a good public show of equality for men and women, but privately we still teach our little boys that men are still the true protectors of our society. We don't get as upset when men face danger because that is what we expect of them, and this kind of deeply embedded cultural belief is the real heart of sexism in our society. This debate over the role of women in video games is all superficial because I believe it comes from those much older beliefs.

I never said "youtube comments are toxic".

If the poster NEVER allows comments (like "Christian mom debunks the science museum"), yes, that's not good and indicates a lack of interest in opposing viewpoints.
If the poster disables comments after repeated rape and death threats, that's only prudent, no matter who the poster is or what they post. That's what was reported in this case, rape and death threats.

Once again, since it's not sinking in, getting serious repeated detailed death and rape threats is not "being called on her shit", and your insistence on calling it that gets you distain and incredibility from my camp. Only a seriously demented douchebag could honestly think they are the same thing, or is it you are claiming that it didn't happen? If the latter, please provide evidence of that claim. She disabled comments and ratings and canceled appearances on the advice of the police/FBI, from what I recall reading back then. Perhaps she was not getting the same threats on her kickstarter page (could it possibly be moderated better?), or maybe she forgot it with the stress of being threatened?

But once again you ignored the point and my request for verification about WHAT SHE SAID ABOUT SEX WORKERS...we never disagreed that she disabled comments, only on why she did it. I'm certain you understand that and are trying the "look, look at the monkey" technique for distraction from the points at hand. That indicates to me that there is none and you just made up what you wanted her to have said. That will be my position until you prove it wrong, do so and I'll change that position.

You seem to think death and rape threats are faux-excuses and not serious. I'll hope you never have to find out differently, but many people have. It's unseemly to imply a single woman should ignore such threats or assume they are not credible, and does not make you look good in my eyes.

It's obvious you have severe hatred of her, and distain for anyone that doesn't, and that you take anything she says or does in the worst light. That makes further discussion moot...and I just don't care. My main point was your aggressive, insulting tone, and it's unlikely to change since you ignored my stated points entirely.

We'll start with the "youtube comments are toxic".

We're in agreement. Even youtube agrees.

While it's unfortunate that the comment cream doesn't rise on youtube..

This still doesn't eliminate that fact that tons of valid criticism is being censored by Sark & plenty of other unscrupulous agenda-pushers.

It's a perfect opportunity to squash any dissent, under the guise of -

"there is no real debate here. only insults & threats. I had to disable comments to spare my audience the vitriol"

However, imagine if the youtuber was an outspoken Scientologist or Creationist..

Snowball's chance in hell you aren't viewing that as a deceitful tactic to avoid scrutiny.

"Everyone knows creationism is easily debunked/scientology is a cult. Clearly they've disabled comments because they want to squash dissent/valid arguments"

Rarely, if ever, would you think -

"Disabled comments? I get it. They probably just got too many death threats. Scientologists have feelings too yuh know"

Nonetheless, when the EXACT SAME scenario is put in front of you..

..with regard to topics that tug at your liberal, tree-huggy sympathies..

You lose all skepticism. Why is that?

Literally all it takes is a 30 second google search to discover the inconsistencies in Sarkeesian's statements & actions.

From the first article -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the words of Tumblr user robbiebaldwin:

“She says she wants to ‘create a dialogue’ or ‘force video games into open debate,’ except she turns off both comments and even ratings on her videos. Wanting to hear your own voice in an echo chamber is the total opposite of ‘open debate.’”

Leading the charge against Sarkeesian’s decision is Tumblr user amazingatheist, who posted a ten-minute video entitled "Who’s The Damsel Now?"

Arguing that Sarkeesian’s “censorship” of YouTube comments counteracts her message about strong women
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are you seeing the larger picture now @newtboy @Babymech etc.?

This self-described - "critic of sexism in pop culture" - is espousing a set of ideas & strong statements..

Then completely cowering, juking, and being absolutely non-responsive when called on her shit.

She disabled the RATINGS for FSM's sake!
The neutral, objective, non-threatening, non-absuive RATINGS!

That's the way you stand strong for your cause, right!
By disallowing even your supporters from showing their approval!

And before you even mention that cancel lecture of hers.

WHAM!

BAM!

Straight from Utah State -

"Throughout the day, Tuesday, Oct. 14, USU police and administrators worked with state and federal law enforcement agencies to assess the threat to our USU community and Ms. Sarkeesian. Together, we determined that there was no credible threat to students, staff or the speaker, and that this letter was intended to frighten the university into cancelling the event."

They were all "Please don't cancel. We love con-artists! We're Mormons, remember!"

*TooLong,Don'tGiveaFuck*

Anita Sarkeesian is a self-proclaimed pop-culture critic..

Who claims that she wants to 'create a dialogue' & 'force video games into open debate'..

She then proceeds to disallow any & all discourse or scrutiny of her work - positive or negative - going so far as to disable like & dislike ratings on her videos.

Oh and I forgot to add..

She conveniently forgot to disable the vitriol 'whining' on her Kickstarter page until AFTER those comments boosted her campaign to over $150,000 in donations.

[i'll search for the video while you whine about citing sources]

BUT AGAIN! THIS ISN"T JUST ABOUT HER!
It's the overall debacle & all the stupid articles surrounding it.

Tho first I have to slog thru this shitstorm because you're easily distracted by syntax & word choice.

Shit, this is pointless.

Oh well. Done for now.

It can remain adult, the first 6 comments (including ant's, ending with bareboards') were adult, then it quickly devolved into grade school faulty reasoning, lack of comprehension, blatant racism, and derision by someone well known for that type of post.
Conversations will never remain 'adult' when people start their posts with silly blanket derision like "Ugh, everyone in this thread is acting like an asshat." That's not an adult thing to say, and adds nothing to any discussion. Also, you include ant in that (he had posted in the thread by then) for adding it to the 'talk' channel. WHAT?!

To answer your questions,
@Babymech made a quite valid point with a clear example of why Anita doesn't owe anyone anything, and a second post explaining that even more clearly (the second with some snark, because of the insulting comment(er) it was replying to).
You just started by insulting everyone...posters, speaker, Anita, "everyone in this thread"... and made huge leaps to assume she hates and belittles sex workers (who are prostitutes if they sell sex for money, BTW).
Then you go on to apparently claim rape, or people caring/not caring about rape, or perhaps people caring/not caring about other people caring/not caring about rape is a first world problem?

Trancecoach (I had to "show it anyway", he's on ignore for obvious reasons) had absolutely no valid point to make, only a complete misread of babymech and a racist insulting rant making insanely wrong claims and conflations.

@ChaosEngine (and I) explained why she disabled comments on youtube. It was not to block valid criticism, or they would never have been open in the first place. It was because of daily rape and death threats and good advice from friends, cops, and youtube.

Your points are not valid IMO. Particularly your point about her turning off comments, I find that point completely without merit for reasons already delineated.

I'm not interested enough in her to investigate her, and see no need. I'm not a fan. That said, when people make silly statements about her (like "youtubers - commenters & personalities alike - started calling her on her bullshit. In response, she disabled the comments on all of her videos.") when I know that's not correct, I will correct you.
Gamergate (EDIT: for a vast majority of people) WAS about "an ACTUAL very serious set of issues.
Online Harassment. Slut shaming. The depiction & plight of genders in pop culture. etc. " because of the harassing, slut shaming, threatening comments it generated. That's why people know about it, not because of it's original message. Juxtapose that with the repeated serious threats of brutal home invasion & sexual assault...Then ask yourself if the nitpicky personal opinion you've already expressed maintains the situation & context. Otherwise you end up expressing terrible non-sequitur mindless thoughts like Trancecoach.

in effect - "regardless of her peer's brutal rape.. she has no right to expect someone you have labeled an outspoken proponent of women's rights (in gaming).. to respond to her.. or call attention to what you (not her) are calling the most disparaged & vulnerable/easily victimized members of society, female sex workers"...yes, absolutely. Sarkeesian is not an anti-rape advocate, she's a 'women in gaming' advocate, and has no obligation to take up another cause and drop her cause. It's disturbing you don't se the difference, and I think it's intentional.

This is where you and she missed the point...as you said, some people have labeled Sarkeesian -"The new face of female empowerment IN THE GAMING WORLD" (I don't think she calls herself that)....This complaint was not in the gaming world, but in real life. If Sarkeesian was a public anti-rape advocate and ignored this case, there might be reason to be upset about it, but she is not, so there's no reason whatsoever to get outraged that she didn't drop her life and the (somewhat related) issues she cares about to take up your cause, no matter how righteous your cause/issue may be.

For the "uninitiated" (those not in the know) like yourself, the reason she ended up disabling the comments on her videos is she was getting serious violent rape and death threats multiple times daily, not just because "she was called out on her bullshit". Claiming she did it to stick her fingers in her ears and scream "lalalalala" is clearly just a shitbag red herring tactic to cover up a bullshit premise.

So, I must assume you have given Cytherea moral and financial support then, or do you not care about the empowerment of women and equality of genders? How much of your time and money have you donated to her cause? None?!? Why, then you must be a self centered, uncaring, misogynistic, pro-rape, victim blamer who's work in any other field/area must be nothing more than self serving BS...right? That's your position on Sarkeesian, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander....so....

Well, that, and the death threats. I was certain he wouldn't be a cop in Ferguson anymore, this explains why he didn't fight over it.

What I saw was Christian opposition to the METHODS of WBC, but not most of their sentiments. (true enough, the anti-military stance never took off in main stream Christianity, but the anti-homosexual part certainly did, and that was the base for the anti-military stance as I understood it, but maybe I misunderstood them). I saw no Christian opposition to their anti-homosexual stance ever....so they also played on the silence of their religion to further hate and intolerance.
I did see some Muslim's protest the death threats against cartoonists and others, but not nearly enough of them. I agree completely that the silence of the majority paints them with the unpleasant color of the vocal ugly minority mindset...I think that goes for any 'team'.

The real problem with Islam isn't the religion itself or the extremists exploiting it for their terrible and sometimes murderous goals, it's the silence of the moderate, tolerant Muslims. Their refusal to speak out against those who want to abuse their beliefs to pit Islam against the rest of the world is what makes all that hatred so effective.
I saw plenty christian opposition against the Westboro Baptist Church, I've yet to see muslims protesting death threats against cartoonists.

The crucial difference is that the WBC doesn't issue death threats toward novelists/cartoonists, unless they've evolved their God Hates Fags campaign, that is.

Plus the international media is more than happy to paint the WBC with true colors: the same can't be said about the media's response to the muslim reaction toward Salmon Rushdie/Dutch Newspaper/Matt Stone/Trey Parker/et al.

But I take your point.

Why do they hate Family Guy?

And why is it only Muslims who still get upset enough at irreverent media to seriously deter its production with predictable threats of violence? To hell with all chilling effects and censorship based on outrage based on bronze age myths. Every threat against a speaker should and usually does spawn dozens more like him in solidarity with the threatened speaker. On the internet this is known as the Streisand effect and it's pretty much inevitable. The assholes making death threats against cartoonists are way behind the times. "Islamophobia" acquiring the opprobrium of racism is absurd. Religion is a choice like becoming a member of the asshole tea party, not something unchangeable that you're born with like skin color. One might as well coin a term "Republicanophobia" and apply it to any harsh critic of the Republican party. All religions are rotten to the core just as all major parties are rotten to the core. But some religions are worse than others and some parties are worse than others, notwithstanding individual variability.

The funny thing about the 'Muhammad in a bear suit' is that they had an earlier episode a whole bunch of gods acting like super heroes and he was in it. Nobody made a fuss, nobody got death threats, nobody cared.

Such hypocracy has got to make you laugh. Though I think the episode that got the most grief was the episode were a statue of Mother Mary bled out the ass lol.

Racist idiot baits fundamentalist idiots, and the world keeps getting slightly worse...

Also @artician, no, this isn't a mock-up. Vilks was invited to hold a lecture on freedom of speech at Uppsala university, and to illustrate that he chose to show part of Sooreh Hera's photo series 'Allah ho gaybar'. Since everybody knew he was a racist asshole who deliberately wanted to provoke Muslims, a bunch of fundamentalist Muslims who wanted to be deliberately provoked showed up at his lecture. Idiots met idiot, and combusted.

Oh and since he'd been getting death threats for his previous hijinks (depicting the prophet Muhammad as a dog), the cops were on hand for this occasion.

I'm so torn here. On one hand, I think she deserves all the hate she gets. It's objectively a bad song and the shithead mom just paid her no-talent daughter into fake fame. But at the same time, The death threats are obviously crossing a line and so is the supposed bullying.

It swings both ways. On one hand, I don't think I will ever understand the "quest for fame" that some people strive for. Sure virtually everyone wants to be known and have the respect of their peers. I just can't contemplate being so craving for attention to put myself through something like that. So part of me wants to blame her and her mom for their low sense of self-worth that they have to crave that sort of fame.

But on the other hand. I blame society in general. regardless of whether you like the song or hate her guts, a lot of people put a non-insignificant amount of time and effort into liking or hating her. Why are we so bored that we're willing to like an objectively bad song or spend hours on youtube making hateful comments.

Then of course there's the whole money aspect of things. If all they cared about was getting paid...well obviously the mother's scheme worked. She's set up pretty good and all she had to do was make her daughter a national spectacle.

Is it worth it? Should it be worth it?

I think only two things are certain for me. 1. The mother is a horrible person for putting her kid through that. 2. This is an indictment of the music industry that they're so desperate for anything to sell they resort to the circus acts and freak shows and actual singing ability be damned.