So explain East Oakland or East LA, or Alabama, Appalachia, almost any reservation or religious compound.
Plenty of strife in capitalist society.

Put N Carolina under total international embargo for 50 years and tell me it’s all about communism. I would bet everything I own that Cuba, for all it’s faults, would stand head and shoulders above your state given the same economy destroying embargo.

This is the propaganda you need to stem the tide of a red wave in midterms? Wow such Bull shit.

The red wave is coming to wash away the Biden stain. You can't stop it. Biden and the party fucked up America too much.

Newtboy : The Tool of the party.. I truly feel you pain. Capitalist America not turning communist fast enough.

LOL. Communism is only in the CCP's name, hardly in practice anymore. As a country, it's arguably a more capitalistic system (there's far less tax bailouts for the rich in China than the Communist Republicans in the USA) with a socialist political agenda (in order for the party to stay in power, mind, but I'm calling a spade a spade). Still, it's less socialist/communist than many Western Europe countries.

There are far too many idiots who don't bother to understand and distinguish the differences between communism, capitalism, socialism, facism, authoritarianism, democracy, freedom, government regulations, checks & balances in the private & public sectors and all the grays, mixes-and-matches in between systems & ideals.... it's sadly all too laughable.

But Eileen Gu is the classic American Capitalist. She follows where the (sponsorship) money is. Expert at her sport AND doublespeak. She's living her American Dream!

It's not kowtowing to China. It's just "smart business" if you take off that racist lens.

If Walmart is so patriotic, then they can stop sourcing from China.

If the American Auto Industry is so patriotic, they can stop buying their parts from China.

If Corporate America is so patritotic, they can stop opening up factories in China.

China's not forcing shit on America. It's America that love lapping up the cheapest shit they can find in China and beyond. Corporate America is not willing to pay a fair wage in America, they're even less willing to pay of living wage anywhere else, many forcing a "996" work schedule on staff (https://www.npr.org/2021/08/30/1032458104/12-hour-6-day-996-work-schedule-illegal-china-deaths-tech-industry).

"China"... it's an American addiction. Not the other way around.

Bob, please read this carefully. I know we fuck around a lot here, but I 100% honestly don't want to see you get hurt financially.

Obviously, if you believe in TSLA, I understand you putting your money where your mouth is (full disclosure: I'm holding POTX and CURLF, so I'm on the same page with what I'm saying on this) but PLEASE don't bet money you don't have on TSLA.

“At 10-times revenues, to give you a 10-year payback (P/E 10, my note), I must pay you 100% of revenues for 10-straight years in dividends. That assumes I can get that by my shareholders. It also assumes I have zero cost of goods sold, which is very hard for a computer company.

That assumes zero expenses, which is hard with 39,000 employees. That assumes I pay no taxes, which is very hard. And that expects you pay no taxes on your dividends, which is kind of illegal. And that assumes with zero R&D for the next 10-years, I can maintain the current revenue run rate.

Now, having done that, would any of you like to buy my stock at $64? Do you realize how ridiculous those underlying assumptions are? You don’t need any transparency. You don’t need any footnotes.

What were you thinking?”

-- Scott McNealy was the CEO of Sun Microsystems
2002

At the peak of the Dot-Com, roughly 30 stocks in the NASDAQ 100 traded above 10 P/E. Today ALL stocks in the DAQ do: the average P/E is ~25.5.

TSLA is at a P/E of 175.

There is no American economy. There hasn't been since since October 3 of 2008. Things got catastrophically worse on September 17th of 2019 when the repo market came within hours of completely locking up in a catastrophe that would have made AIG look like a rounding error. The Fed was forced to firehose astronomical amounts of money into the system to keep this from happening and this was before Covid.

In Jan of 2021, there was $2.6 TRILLION in Zombie Debt out there. That's $2.6 TRILLION on the verge of default at 2021 interest rates. The Fed is now in a horrific position: raise rates and watch massive defaults explode like financial nukes, or keep rates steady and watch inflation implode the economy.

People don't understand how bad this is and how much worse it can get. If the Fed has to raise rates by 500 BP -- and Christ fucking help us if they do -- the first order defaults will be the worst in Capitalist history and the second and third order effects could very well be the nightmare scenario we came within 36 hours of in 2008.

Save your money, Bob. Cash is king. And fuck BTC.

There you go again, insisting that if police can’t kill with impunity and immunity, then anarchy will rule, there will be no police, and crime rates will skyrocket, making the US into Thunderdome in months.

Infantile, ignorant, and asinine, police in almost every other country kill far less than American police who kill around 3 people per day on average. In many countries they don’t carry guns, without a massive jump in crime. Imagine that. Are you saying US police are so incompetent that every other nation can police itself without letting them murder over nothing but contempt of cop, but divided America is totally incapable of that type of policing?

I would remind you, in the racist, sexist fantasy time period Trumpists wish to return to, police murdered non whites routinely and without fear. Wanting to return to that is pure racism…not surprising. Also, the Uber rich payed over 90% in taxes, without going bankrupt or just shutting down. Your “capitalist utopia” doesn’t exist without taxes at 3 times what they are now without loopholes. D’oh!
(For tax years 1944 through 1951, the highest marginal tax rate for individuals was 91%, increasing to 92% for 1952 and 1953, and reverting to 91% 1954 through 1963. For the 1964 tax year, the top marginal tax rate for individuals was lowered to 77%, and then to 70% for tax years 1965 through 1981)

I would also remind you how you screamed and cried over that terrorist bitch that was shot attacking the capitol with hundreds of armed violent cohorts that had already murdered and disabled dozens of police. You absolutely wanted that officer prosecuted if not just lynched….for a good shoot of a violent attacking murderer (part of the violent murdering mob makes you a murderer). Your blatant undeniable racist prejudice and obvious hypocrisy are showing, Bobby.

If police need to murder unarmed citizens over misdemeanors, they should absolutely stand down as that makes them the murderous criminal gang, not the police.

She didn't use illegal funds from BLM. She is a hypocrite of the highest order though. Of course, most rich people are, regardless of race.

1. She never took a salary from BLM: False. BLM stated they paid her 120k a year.

2. There is no proof she bought the houses or owns them: False, she admitted in interviews and statements she bought them for her family and herself. I question also that she is giving these homes to family, since she said herself that they disowned her and kicked out at 16 when she came out as queer. I can't find proof to counter that she gave them to family members, so that is just an opinion.

3. She is an avowed Marxist and Socialist, yet she is pursuing capitalist ideals hardcore. She tries to worm her way around this in her interview, but the Left themselves are criticizing her for doing this.

4. Wherever there is a white-dominant space, deep racism exists as well - no matter how progressive. If you cut too far into that progressive, if you do something that's too radical, white racism will emerge. - Patrisse Cullors: Also buys 1.4 million expansive property in Topanga Canyon district, which is 88% white and 1.8% black. Why would she want to live someplace where, per her previous quotes, deep racism exists?

But... but... as the Capitalist says: "where's the money in THAT?"

Notice how the Western health system is designed to not solve health/mental problems and drug companies rarely want to take out the root causes, they mostly treat (i.e. suppress) just enough of your symptoms so you can get whatever problems (and/or some others) you have again down the road. Most pills don't help build your system to fight, just buying you time.

And addressing trauma? forgettabouit! The society-at-large have painted a largely negative imagine to psychologists & mental health professions, and associated victim shaming, most people don't even want to seek help?

But it (the internet) took off based on the possibility of profit. Got stolen from the nerds.

Of course basic research needs public funding. No direct profit - no market value. Some capitalists (entrepreneurs, people who invest their private property) look beyond direct profit and fund science, or arts, people are whimsical.

Iphones need a market. Without a market who would care if someone invented the Iphone?

But.....Bcglorf said: Capitalism (or many unrelated civic freedoms) made science and progress possible. The implication is that without capitalism, science and progress are impossible.
Edit: my mistake, vil said that, not bcglorf.

Also, the video is about contradicting that exact contention.

No they aren't, because America isn't just "an economy based on capitalism", which you yourself pointed out. They all come from innovations in systems and inventions created through American socialism.

Again, pre '68, before America went the socialist route to advance computer sciences, not after. Yes, after we used a combination of socialism and capitalism, we were more successful. That's my point.

China is working on 6g, and nearly ready with 5g. America isn't. That cannot be simply because China stole our advancements since they're ahead of us. They also, as you've admitted, developed better (cheaper/faster) manufacturing methods both because of technological advancements and few or no regulations (which have caused them horrendous issues). Funny enough, removing the regulations for more profit at the expense of the workers/environment is capitalistic, not socialist.

Their 5G is better because it's 1)almost ready to deploy and 2) cheaper. Ours isn't ready for prime time yet, and has used billions in public funds to get where it is. The FCC also proposed a $20 billion fund to expand broadband (5g)....that's not capitalism.

Ahhh, switching topics, eh? I thought the topic is capitalism vs socialism as it relates to invention, not fascism. I'm not going to bite.

Ok, personal enrichment is one of many incentives that drive invention, but invention happens without that incentive daily.

Once again, necessity is the mother of invention, not capitalism or profit.

You miss the point if you claim he contradicts that conclusion, because the systems invented that the examples require were ALL publicly funded. Without the socialist inventions, there would be no capitalistic innovations. No internet=no world wide web. No WiFi means no WiFi. No displays=no mobile computers/phones. No access to phone lines=no data transfers, so no internet, www, etc.

If his numbers are correct, 72% of research spending is public funding, not private. Nuff said.

your contention that ONLY personal profit drives invention or innovation.

I'm afraid I've never argued that, I can lead by agreeing whole heartedly that such a contention is false.

I merely pointed out that in a video about how 'capitalism didn't create the iphone', the authors own examples of innovations that lead to the iphone are all 100% from within an economy based on capitalism. My very first post stated clearly that it's not a purely capitalist system, but that it is noteworthy that not a one of the examples chosen by the author making his point came from a socialist country.

Can you offer a comparative American/Russian timeline of computer innovations
Well, I could actually. If you want to deny the fact that Russia basically halted their computer R&D multiple times in the 70s, 80s and 90s in place of just stealing American advances because they were so far behind I can cite examples for you...

And for some unknown to you reason China is beating the ever loving pants off America lately.
1. Factually, no they are not. The fastest network gear, CPU and GPU tech are all base on American research and innovation. America is still hands down leading the field in all categories but manufacturing cost, but that isn't for reasons of technological advancement but instead a 'different approach' to environmental and labour regulations.
2. Within the 5G space you alluded to earlier, there is an additional answer. Their 5G isn't 'better' but rather 'cheaper' for reasons stated in 1. The existence of their 'own' 5G tech though isnt' because Huawei's own R&D was caught up so fast through their own innovation. Instead if you look into the history of network companies, Canadian giant Nortel was giving Cisco a solid run for it's money for a time, until they utterly collapsed because of massive corporate espionage stealing almost all of their tech and under cutting them on price. China's just using the same playbook as Russia to catch up.

Russia beat America into space

Well, if you want to go down that road the conclusion is that fascism is the key to technological advancement, as America and Russia were largely just pitting the scientists they each captured from the Nazis against one another.

Once again though, my point has never been that only capitalism can result in innovation. Instead, I made the vastly more modest proposal that personal profit from inventions is beneficial to innovation. I further observed that the video author's own examples support that observation, and in that contradict his own conclusion.

In reality, it wasn't spare time tinkering at all, it was serious academics doing full time paid research funded by the government. ARPANET, while funded by the defense department, was designed by and connected college researchers, the first transmissions were between UCLA and Stanford in 69, not the military. This was the first networking, the infant internet.
The military system in the 60's was a point to point tonal encryption system that ran on proprietary bell telephone systems with dedicated direct phone lines until the FCC forced Bell to give up it's capitalistic monopoly in 68, allowing for advancements in both the public and eventually private sector that led to the infant internet instead of just individual "computers" (and I use the term lightly here) directly communicating. Remember, back then, almost into the 90's, you needed to know the direct phone number of the other computer to connect (think "War Games"), there was no publicly accessible network.
The first retail internet transaction wasn't until 94.

Also imo, it was weird individuals tinkering in their spare time that made home computing anything more than very expensive word processors/calculators. We've had PCs since the 70's in my home, I remember what they could do then....I'm one of those weird individuals.

Long and short, your 5 different capitalistic ways ALL stem from a purely socialist base and a socialist denial of private for profit monopolies, and most if not all of them were developed and implemented using at least some public funding. Without that, we would still be using bell telephone phone modems to direct dial each other. Without public/private cooperation, neither sector could advance like they have together.
Imo, it's not an either/or situation, it's both.

@newtboy

That'd be an obvious no to taxation strawman, and the "cherry-picked list" wasn't made by myself, but rather the guy in the video so I think it a fair list to use as a critique of his point. I'm not narrowing or selecting anything to help me out, he did.

My 'logic' was not your taxation throw away, but rather as I stated: "being able to profit of your own ideas and grow your own business and keep the profits from it is just maybe a contributing factor in all that."

Innovation being connected to the ability of the inventor to profit from innovation? Doesn't seem a huge leap, and something that is far more pronounced under capitalism than socialism. So, yeah, when 100% of the examples the guy arguing here came up with all grew out of a nation with an underlying capitalist economy isn't a huge surprise, and makes a bit of case that maybe innovation IS encouraged by that factor of self-interest.

newtboy's on point again, thanks.

Using bcglorf's logic, it is TAXATION that invented the internet. Name me a country (capitalist/communist/socialist or otherwise) that doesn't tax its people, bcglorf. Makes no sense to me. The video's intent is about defining the "who" invented the (early) internet, it's about credit where it's due, not blindly attributing everything to the almighty "capitalism". The video is saying IS IT NOT IT (capitalism).

I wouldn't say the inventors didn't take advantage of its research, it's just that for them it's not (only) about profit. The military benefits with precision-guided missiles, drones & satellites, universities got their connected & online classrooms.

China is ALREADY doing R&D on 6G (https://www.techradar.com/news/china-has-already-kicked-off-its-6g-research)... "capitalism" better catch up, bcglorf!

What MUST be said though, is that the world really should thank the USA to open the tech & infrastructure up to the public (including the world) to make the world a more connected place (even with its many social warts and all).

So, take a short cherry picked list of American inventions created largely with public funding, then claim only American capitalism could have produced them? Uhhhhh......

The inventors of the internet were NOT able to profit directly from their own ideas, they were military and publicly funded schools working in conjunction to create a publicly owned private data sharing network. Later, when this publicly funded network was opened to the public, private companies used it for private profit, and (often) slowed progress and stymied advancements in the process.
It's simply wrong to claim government funded advancements are due to capitalism simply because the taxes came from a capitalist country. Wow.

What about 5G...China is ahead of any capitalist country on that, and many other computing advancements. Those technicians don't see a scintilla of profit from their inventions, ideas, and often businesses (granted, some are allowed to make billions, but only a certain few that are government affiliated oligarchs, and it can be stripped from them the instant they don't tow the party line).