How is privatizing social security giving responsibility to individuals? It's giving all of our money to giant corporations. Not sure if you've noticed, but you're of a very unique group of people who really wanted Bush's plan to privatize shit like SS. Not just unique, but very very small.

I guess if you want the freedom to have all of your money stolen, empty your bank account and light it all on fire.

This is why Bob Barr and Ron Paul each got 40 votes in their candidacies. People across the country yelled in unison "are you fucking nuts?"


And why is it people who like Ron Paul's economic and foreign policy issues, are totally OK with his pro-discrimination, anti-union, and anti-abortion policies?

P.S. everyone should have listed to me and blankfist and voted for Bob Barr.

^Imstellar

You say:
"the reason i did this (gay marriage = polygamy) was to illustrate that democracy is a flawed system and does not protect against oppression, intolerance, and hate--the only system which does this is a rule of law derived by basic human rights!"

Your proposition was:
"Republic government" + "That single line "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is enough to ensure gay rights, polygamist rights, womens suffrage, forbid slavery, racism, protect freedom of speech and religion, maintain economic liberty, and guard against any other form of oppression."

Do we live in the same world?

The United States is a federal constitutional republic not a democracy. Bill of rights (1791) and the US Constitution (1787).

Even then slavery ended (legally speaking only) in 1865, racism continued for a long time culminating with the civil rights movement in the 1960s. Woman's suffrage only came into nationalized form in 1920.

I find it silly to lay the blame at the feet of democracy which doesn't currently exist in the US, and claim that solutions exist in a republic that issues laws and decrees that you expect to be perfectly respected by every organ of the government and applied fairly across the nation.

The obstacles to same-sex marriage stem from basic social incompatibility out of years of fear mongering that gays would ruin America and its moral standing originating in the fundamentalist christian right. It's basic social taboo, which we might find wrong but wouldn't be thought of so in the Midwest and most of the Christian enclaves in the US.

These fears are then expressed in election that bring social conservatives to power, resulting laws passed by congress, house and signed in by the President, the largest one being the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), authored by Bob Barr (republican at the time) in 1996 going fast tracked through a republican controlled house and congress.

Its Congressional sponsors stated, "[T]he bill amends the U.S. Code to make explicit what has been understood under federal law for over 200 years; that a marriage is the legal union of a man and a woman as husband and wife, and a spouse is a husband or wife of the opposite sex."

What I outlined there was not a democracy, it is exactly what you outlined, a republic which at its core has the bill of rights that possess "the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness".

In the same way as social views are altered so do those who get elected into power become representative of changing of the times, for example Prez Obama's political platform included full repeal of the DOMA.

I believe that in the next 5 to 10 years there will be a repel or reform on Prop 8, at the same time I believe it will be confined to more socially progressive areas of the US with more conservative states taking much longer.

Then if polygamy is such a big issue and concern well they can mount a organized movement to have state recognition for that (even though I think its a really minority and fringe issue not on the same scale as gay rights).

But you are mistaken to think that the solution will magically spring forth if we simply have a republic with human rights as guiding tenants because we had that and even then social issues took decades to resolve. The line "the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is an ideal the forefathers gave this country it wasn't a dictum and in many ways I believe at the time it was meant to apply only to white male Americans oppressed by British rule.

But its wording has come to mean so much more as an idea. It is America's pursuit of that idea that makes that nation so great.

>> ^blankfist:
It's not a wasted vote. Don't listen to the Republicans and Democrats. They. Are. Wrong.


Yep, just ask any 3rd party candidate and they'll gladly tell you so.

Actually, there's someone with a Bob Barr yard sign along my usual route to the grocery store.

It's pink and blue, for some reason.

>> ^NetRunner:
>> ^burdturgler:
Ron Paul is a great guy but voting for him is a complete waste of time.
One of two people are going to be President.
Obama / McCain
If you can't figure out which one to vote for, or you think neither deserves your vote, than please, do the world a favor... don't vote.

I disagree. Ron Paul is a great person to vote for if you were thinking of voting McCain.
Ditto Bob Barr, or Chuck Baldwin (who Ron Paul has endorsed).
They're much more conservative than that big-government McCain guy.


I wanted to vote for Ron Paul but ended up voting for Baldwin

Trying to dilute the McCain vote, eh?
I really don't think you have anything to worry about NetRunner, I don't think it's as close as some in the media have led people to believe.

>> ^burdturgler:
Ron Paul is a great guy but voting for him is a complete waste of time.
One of two people are going to be President.
Obama / McCain
If you can't figure out which one to vote for, or you think neither deserves your vote, than please, do the world a favor... don't vote.


I disagree. Ron Paul is a great person to vote for if you were thinking of voting McCain.

Ditto Bob Barr, or Chuck Baldwin (who Ron Paul has endorsed).

They're much more conservative than that big-government McCain guy.

With McCain so far behind in the polls right now, if he were smart, he would get out of his "Straight Talk Express," walk up to these morons, and tell them that they make him sick, and that he is ashamed to have them supporting him.

If he did that, I'm willing to bet that somewhere between 70-100% of the "Republicans for Obama" would vote for him simply out of respect for his finally admitting that his campaign has gone wrong. It's not like he'd actually lose any of these racist bozos...they'd still vote for him (or maybe Bob Barr), or else just stay home on election day.

^ Or for them to acknowledge that Obama isn't Muslim, or that being Muslim doesn't automatically make you an evil terrorist. If they did, they'd lose half of their voters. They might go to Bob Barr or something.

I thought from this clip Obama made his points better.

In other Debate News
--THIRD PARTY DEBATE--
this Sunday October, 19
8:00 pm EST --Tune to CSPAN--
confirmed candidates
-Ralph Nader (Independent)
-Chuck Baldwin (Constitution Party)
-Cynthia Mckinney (Green Party)
*Bob Barr please be in the debate*
(Feel free to copy and paste This)

So.. has any of you wondered why Bob Barr (whom is on the Presidential ticket) is not allowed to join in on the debates.. do you think that's fair? Oh wait.. he's not a CFR member is he?

Thank you. Very nice. I've heard little from Barr that I don't like. FFS, why can't he be the Republican candidate?! RAWR!

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
I thought you may be interested in this: http://www.videosift.com/video/Libertarian-Candidate-Bob-Barr-on-Lou-Dobbs-09112008

i loved carlin, and can relate to the apathy that leads to non-participation.
to a degree that shames me, quite frankly.

but here's 2 cents in response, from prior comments elsewhere:

http://blog.videosift.com/curiousity/How-Sarah-Palin-change-my-vote-to-Obama#comment-517355

http://www.videosift.com/video/Bob-Barr-on-Fox-News-Sunday#comment-467998

thanks, mauz. my comment to you a while back, has only become truer since.

Check out Colorado's ballot. Apparently it is easy to run for president there.
By the way, expect long lines in CO and OH. The CO ballot is insane, and OH voters will have a ton to vote on. THREE pages.

http://www.co.pueblo.co.us/assets/0/187/191/716/29bae9c8-8df6-486c-9ac6-73693b47e85a.pdf
They have freakin'
"Boston Tea Party" and what looks to be a webpage ad, HeartQuake'08

John McCain / Sarah Palin - Republican
Barack Obama / Joe Biden - Democratic
Chuck Baldwin / Darrell L. Castle - Constitution
Bob Barr / Wayne A. Root - Libertarian
Cynthia McKinney / Rosa A. Clemente - Green
Jonathan E. Allen / Jeffrey D. Stath - HeartQuake ‘08
Gene C. Amondson / Leroy J. Pletten - Prohibition
James Harris / Alyson Kennedy - Socialist Workers
Charles Jay / Dan Sallis Jr. - Boston Tea
Alan Keyes / Brian Rohrbough - America’s Independent
Gloria La Riva / Robert Moses - Socialism and Liberation
Bradford Lyttle / Abraham Bassford - U.S. Pacifist
Frank Edward McEnulty / David Mangan - Unaffiliated
Brian Moore / Stewart A. Alexander - Socialist, USA
Ralph Nader / Matt Gonzalez - Unaffiliated
Thomas Robert Stevens / Alden Link - Objectivist

My ballot here in Ohio has:

John McCain (Republican)
Cynthia McKinney (Green)
Brian Moore (Socialist)
Ralph Nader (Spoiler)
Barack Obama (Democrat)
Chuck Baldwin (Constitution)
Bob Barr (Libertarian)
Richard Duncan (no party listed)

Plus write-in.

We also have an issue on the ballot for legalizing gambling.

So who're you cats voting for? Bob Barr?