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White House - U.N shelter attack totally unacceptable

Yogi says...

Lots of stupid cunts posting in here. Maybe it's time I weighed in.

Looks like even the White house is starting to feel the pressure, and they do react to it when it get's too heavy. So they've announced a ceasefire and they've moved to try and get ahead of the criticism. They're probably sick of it anyways, we've got our own problems and if an outpost of our military is going to be such a pain in the ass we don't need them anymore.

The overwhelming point is that the White house could tomorrow tell Israel to stop this and leave the Palestinians alone, and we'd have a two state solution. That isn't a joke, this only occurs with our consent and that's the consent of our government and us by default. We get mad enough and you see they do whatever they can to ease up on things before it gets too embarrassing for them.

This is the main point from out of all of this. You are responsible for the predictable results of your own actions. It's a basic moral truism. You want to stop terrorism in the world, you have to STOP Using Terrorism to rule it. The Largest Terror operations in the world are run right out of Washington. Stop Terrorism being committed in your name. Stand Up.

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

newtboy says...

This reminds me of people who blame women for being raped with statements like 'if they didn't want to be raped, they shouldn't have had so much to drink' or 'they shouldn't have worn those revealing clothes' continuing with 'that makes both the woman and the man at fault' and ending with 'since they're both at fault, no one should be punished, it's a wash'.
That sounds considerably like the argument you've been making here....with Israel blaming the Palestinians for dressing slutty, asking to be raped.

Confucius said:

Anyway.... My only central point is and has been that Hamas and the Israeli elite directing the conflict are both to blame...
How can you not blame Hamas....How can you not blame Israeli elites?

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

newtboy says...

Not so in any meaningful way.

Israelis are the expansionists....aggressors.
Israel bombed first this (and many other) round(s)....aggressors.
Israel has many other less harmful methods of obtaining their 'stated' goals but prefer indiscriminately bombing civilian populations and shelters, then lying about it and blaming the victims....aggressors and liars.
Israel is safe as long as the iron dome system works, and it's working fine against the fireworks, but they still claim their offensive military campaign is defensive....aggressors, liars, and assholes.
Israel has done to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to them, namely force them into ghettos, then a giant concentration camp where they are randomly killed, but Israel still thinks they somehow hold the high moral ground (in large part because of people like you who will tell them so, in the face of all evidence to the contrary)....evil, history forgetting aggressors.
I think that's enough to say you are dead wrong in the first part of your statement....but they are getting their butts kicked. To me, that's a statement about the inhuman willingness of Israel to repeatedly and viciously attack a defenseless, imprisoned population rather than a slight against Palestinians.

bobknight33 said:

Palestinians and Hamas are the aggressors and now they are getting their buts kicked.

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

bobknight33 says...

Palestinians and Hamas are the aggressors and now they are getting their buts kicked.

newtboy said:

No, but we can certainly all agree that the Palestinians and Hamas are victims of the Israelis.
The Palestinians want to take showers, but Israel has cut off/destroyed all their water and electricity infrastructure (because they are apparently afraid Palestinians might start throwing water balloons, so no water or electricity for them, perfectly reasonable, proper, and humane).
#IsolateIsrael

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

newtboy says...

No, but we can certainly all agree that the Palestinians and Hamas are victims of the Israelis.
The Palestinians want to take showers, but Israel has cut off/destroyed all their water and electricity infrastructure (because they are apparently afraid Palestinians might start throwing water balloons, so no water or electricity for them, perfectly reasonable, proper, and humane).
#IsolateIsrael

lantern53 said:

We can all agree that the Palestinians and the Israelis are all victims of Hamas. At least the Israelis take showers.

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

charliem says...

Noone is telling Israel to shrug their shoulders....the issue is not with the defence, it is the measure of the defence.

Israel should send in a police force, and find those responsible. Shut down the tunnels by ground, stop bombing indiscriminately.

This requires police action, not military...the 'missiles' you keep referring to are pathetically weak, absolutely pathetic.

Were I leader of Israel, I would drop the wall, set about repairing the damages inside the city, allow the organisation of a government, support it in getting benefits in for the people of Gaza and Palestine, halt the invasion of settlers into Palestinian territory, halt the bombings and send in armed police where reports of weapons stashes are. Set up large scale police patrols in troubled areas, let people go about their lives without the fear of having a bomb dropped on their head, try to give them a leg up in life....and the revenge attacks using piss weak rockets will stop.

The Israeli measure of force is far far higher than it should be.

There is no army inside gaza, its kids playing with homemade rocketry. Get cops in there, not 500lb bombs.

If both sides agreed to a ceasefire, allowing UN peacekeepers into the area to...you know...keep the peace, whilst the cities are rebuilt, peoples lives can get back to normal...my god imagine that world.

shinyblurry said:

You didn't address my question; I never said I am ok with civilians being killed. Could you please address the scenario; how do you think the US would respond to rocket attacks on its cities? Would we attack and eliminate the threat or shrug our shoulders? We're asking Israel to shrug its shoulders about these attacks yet isn't it true we ourselves would never do that?

U.N: One child killed every hour in Gaza

TheFreak says...

Interesting to note, the Palestinians have an accuracy rate of 2O Israeli soldiers for every Israeli civilian killed. The superior Israeli military is killing 4 civilians for every combatant they kill.

Who's the terrorist state?

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

Asmo says...

Wrong.

The side with the most power is worse. The side that can precisely destroy targets and yet somehow can't stop hitting everything else, is worse. The side that has layered defense systems neutralising the threat of home made dumbfire rockets, is worse. The side where people line up to laugh as civilians are murdered with no where to run, is fucking worse.

You cannot bring equivalency to this equation because there is none, and there never was. Israel has always relied on the rest of the world to back it's play, and continually pushes the limits of what it can get away with, defying the world to stop it.

If there was justice, a noose would be waiting for every cunt from either side responsible for the death of civilians, from the politicians and commanders who give the orders down to the troops that pulled the trigger. I fucking guarantee you there would be many times more Israeli's swinging than Palestinians...

Confucius said:

It's the epitome of ignorance to promote either side in this. They're both wrong. They're both at fault. They're both stupid and bloodthirsty.

One side is not better or worse than the other.

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

newtboy says...

It's the epitome of ignorance to jump to the conclusion that because one sees one side being far worse than the other, that person must be promoting the 'lesser evil'.
It's just as ignorant to jump to the conclusion that empathy for the Palestinian civilians trapped in the giant concentration camp that is Gaza is tantamount to all out support for Hamas and it's tactics. That's a total straw man argument made by those that can't answer the actual issues of an expansionist Israel flexing it's significant military muscles against a trapped, helpless, completely defenseless population that has already been ghettoized into the stone age without qualm, using the blatantly ridiculous excuse of 'defense' for a purely offensive military campaign against a civilian 'quasi-refugee' population. It seems to me that people who make that argument have made the ignant (a stubborn kind of ignorance that can't be cured by education) decision to buy into the (quite well produced, I must admit) Israeli propaganda machine and ignore the indisputable facts.
Both sides are at fault, wrong, bloodthirsty, and bad, one side IS FAR MORE at fault, wrong, bad, and bloodthirsty...or if not more bloodthirsty then at least far better at blood lust sating without conscience.

Confucius said:

It's the epitome of ignorance to promote either side in this. They're both wrong. They're both at fault. They're both stupid and bloodthirsty.

One side is not better or worse than the other.

U.N: One child killed every hour in Gaza

newtboy says...

That's an odd stance to take, since Hamas HAD stopped firing rockets, then Israel made up another 'reason' to start bombing them again mercilessly (a murder), while Israelis also got 'revenge' by burning a Palestinian boy alive. The homes of the accused (by Israel) murders, their families, and for good measure their political leaders and police leaders were bombed to 'retaliate' for the murder, but in Israel there's NO retaliation for the burned alive boy against families, political leaders, or police. The Hamas rockets didn't fire until AFTER Israel attacked in force again, killing mostly civilians.
Once again, FAIL.
Hamas is doing what it can to look like it's trying to protect it's people. Israel, with our help and support, has ensured their options are quite limited and basically useless.
All Israel has to do to protect it's people is turn on the iron dome defense system we gave them, and maybe stop bombing trapped civilian targets in a barrel of Israel's construction. Oh, and may stop slowly invading the already tiny, ever shrinking country to the left. Everyone seems to forget that Israel has consistently expanded into it's neighbors by force, then cried foul if anyone balks and starts bombing neighborhoods again. Over and over.
#isolate Israel. (since # free Palestine gets so much play and outrage lately)

bobknight33 said:

Well Hamas ( documented terrorist group) elected by the Palestinian people ( No Arab nation cares for Palestinian people. They are the least of the least) can stop the killing if they stop sending bombs on Israeli's people.

Israeli is doing what it needs to do to protect its people.

Jon Stewart on the Gaza-Israeli Conflict

U.N: One child killed every hour in Gaza

Januari says...

I agree with your sentiment Yogi but the idea that the US and Israel are alone is just wrong.

The EU and the Arab states have been entirely complicit by omission. The US give the EU cover at the UN, and they are entirely happy to sit there and abstain again and again and again. Even the Palestinians don't trust the Arab nations surrounding them as they've been burned by that far to many times.

Its far to simplistic to act like this is a US/Israel issue, if you want to make an argument they are the 'most' complicit, you'd almost certainly be right. But NO one is holding Israel accountable and letting the cowards in Europe off the hook isn't right either.

Yogi said:

What's most interesting is how they were elected. The Palestinian people elected them in a free election (which UN observers verified). They elected them while being threatened by Israel and the US, they elected their own government with a gun to their head.

The US and Israel only support democracy when they approve the leaders to be elected. They threaten the populace and the leaders before they've even been elected and it's not idle threats either as the past 40 years have shown.

Israel and the United States stand alone against the rest of the world and the tiny population of the Palestinian territories.

Please do some more research, maybe starting with this.
http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

U.N: One child killed every hour in Gaza

Yogi says...

What's most interesting is how they were elected. The Palestinian people elected them in a free election (which UN observers verified). They elected them while being threatened by Israel and the US, they elected their own government with a gun to their head.

The US and Israel only support democracy when they approve the leaders to be elected. They threaten the populace and the leaders before they've even been elected and it's not idle threats either as the past 40 years have shown.

Israel and the United States stand alone against the rest of the world and the tiny population of the Palestinian territories.

Please do some more research, maybe starting with this.
http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/

bobknight33 said:

Well Hamas ( documented terrorist group) elected by the Palestinian people ( No Arab nation cares for Palestinian people. They are the least of the least) can stop the killing if they stop sending bombs on Israeli's people.

Israeli is doing what it needs to do to protect its people.

U.N: One child killed every hour in Gaza

billpayer says...

Oh, Sorry. Remind me...
How many Israeli's have died so far in THEIR war ?

Let me answer with FACTS:
40 SOLDIERS, 2 Civilians
(due to Israel's ground invasion NOT rockets)

And how many Palestinians have be MURDERED ?

1,047
80% of which are INNOCENT CIVILIANS AND CHILDREN

To Recap.
That's 40 Israeli soldiers vs 1,047 Gazan (80% Civilians, approx a third of which are CHILDREN)

bobknight33 said:

Well Hamas ( documented terrorist group) elected by the Palestinian people ( No Arab nation cares for Palestinian people. They are the least of the least) can stop the killing if they stop sending bombs on Israeli's people.

Israeli is doing what it needs to do to protect its people.



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