>> ^alcom:

This is a case of one group of alarmists calling out another group of alarmists.

Nope, there's no "alarmists". Man made climate change is real. Outside of a bunch of morons (fox, qm and the like) who don't understand the science, there's no debate. The rest of us have accepted the facts of the science and are trying to figure out what to do about it.

It's the same as the evolution/creationism "debate". There isn't one. There is only the accepted science and a manufactured controversy by right wing loons.

>> ^alcom:

If the scientists a correct and our consumption is putting us on a path of accelerating climate change on a scale never before seen in the history of our planet, they life on this planet will end. I would tend to err on the side of caution for this one.

Emphasis mine. Actually, it won't. Life will adapt and evole. Humans, OTOH, are fucked.

This is a case of one group of alarmists calling out another group of alarmists. The big difference is the cost of being wrong.

If the conservative view is correct and we're riding a natural heat wave that will even itself out, then we're wasting money trying to stop it and we could all be a little more prosperous if we weren't bogged down by recycling and bike lanes.

If the scientists a correct and our consumption is putting us on a path of accelerating climate change on a scale never before seen in the history of our planet, then life on this planet will end. I would tend to err on the side of caution for this one.

>> ^quantumushroom:

The warming alarmists have gone from doctoring data to preachin' propaganda though a children's cartoon? That's about right.

>> ^visionep:

This is just a trick by our government to enact legislation that will lower the standard of living for alien species that might be coming to our planet soon.


What you don't understand is that these aliens are in fact collective entities classified in human terms as corporations. We must destroy these aliens because they will move in, crowd us out of our own cities and then rule us from afar, turning us into mindless consumers that produce nothing but slave labor.

This is just a trick by our government to enact legislation that will lower the standard of living for alien species that might be coming to our planet soon.

I'd really like to believe the optimists that believe our race will someday overcome it's petty evils but I look at history and just can't.

If history teaches us anything, it is that we never learn from history.

The Hitler's, Stalin's and roman empires of the future will all wrap themselves in pretty words and as did the monsters we remember and a sufficient number of our fellow humans will believe or accept it to give them the power to commit once again the same crimes that make up our planet's history. My only real hope is to try and stave that off for my and my children's generations.

From Lucifer, the Theosophical magazine:

"And, when God said: 'Let there be light,' Intelligence was made and light appeared.

"Then, the Intelligence which God had breathed forth, like a planet detached from the Sun, took the form of a splendid Angel and the heavens saluted him with the name Lucifer.

"Intelligence awoke and it fathomed its own depths as it heard this apostrophe of the divine Word, 'Let there be Light.' It felt itself to be free, for God had commanded it so to be, and it answered, raising its head and spreading its wings, 'I will not be Slavery.'…"

"God then unloosed from his bosom the thread of splendour which held back the superb spirit, and as he watched him dive into the night, cutting in it a path of glory, he loved the child of his thought, and smiling with a smile ineffable, he murmured to himself: 'How fair a thing was this Light!'…"

"Perhaps Lucifer, in plunging into the night, drew with him a shower of Stars and Suns by the attraction of his glory?" (italics in original)

From Helena Petrovna Blavatsky the founder of modern Theosophy

"Lucifer represents.. Life.. Thought.. Progress.. Civilization.. Liberty.. Independence.. Lucifer is the Logos.. the Serpent, the Savior." pages 171, 225, 255 (Volume II)

"It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God." pages 215, 216, 220, 245, 255, 533, (VI)

"The Celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time; for she is the ever-loving beneficent Deity...but in antiquity and reality Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is divine and terrestrial Light, 'the Holy Ghost' and 'Satan' at one and the same time." page 539

Doesn't seem like Levay was too far off. Perhaps he was just taking this rebellion against authority to its natural conclusion, in which Satan is its grand architect?

In reply to this comment by enoch:
levay was a plagerizing,self aggrandizing twat.
the church may have taken his bullshit seriously but the esoteric community practically laughed him out of existence.
his theosophy was a joke.

>> ^bmacs27:

>> ^bcglorf:
It's more sad by far when you look at the whole of human history and realize these are probably the best, most peaceful and prosperous times our planet has will ever seen.

FTFY


I really don't want to believe it ends with "has and will ever see". It may be right of course, but ugh.

>> ^bcglorf:

It's more sad by far when you look at the whole of human history and realize these are probably the best, most peaceful and prosperous times our planet has will ever seen.


FTFY

It's more sad by far when you look at the whole of human history and realize these are probably the best, most peaceful and prosperous times our planet has ever seen.

While you claim to disagree with Tyson here, I think he would actually agree with you! We are very different from chimps, but where does this ability to understand abstract concepts like math come from? I doubt a human isolated from our culture and learning tools would be discussing the finer points of differential equations, I wouldn't be surprised if they were more similar to a chimp than our vision of a human. If we disregard all the knowledge that we've accumulated over the centuries then I think the only difference that remains is that 1% difference in DNA. And all that we've accomplished, discovered and written down has been a result of that 1% difference applied over those centuries. Thus, we arrive at the current year, where we are certainly significantly different from chimps.

Then it becomes exciting to contemplate how much more complex and intelligent a being 1% different from us would be! Can we even begin to imagine what they know about the universe?
>> ^ChaosEngine:

Much as I love Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I feel he's wrong on this. I've said it before, but I think our ability to understand abstract concepts such as math should mark us as sufficiently different from the other species on our planet.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

Much as I love Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I feel he's wrong on this. I've said it before, but I think our ability to understand abstract concepts such as math should mark us as sufficiently different from the other species on our planet.


It's really just a matter of perspective though. Compare a bee with a slug. Bees are way ahead of slugs as far as visible complexity, yet to us, they're complete idiots. Even if we do rely on them.

And humans have been around for what? Maybe fifty-thousand years? Yeah, we've done A LOT in that time. But what could we do with another fifty-thousand? What about a million? (If for some reason we overcome the astronomical probability that we'll destroy ourselves) I don't really think there's any telling what we could do.

Not to mention the fact that everyone just assumes that aliens will be some sort of humanoid or even just act human or share any of our characteristics at all. Sure, here on Earth, life is carbon-based. But then why does everybody just assume that if we encounter life, it will also be carbon based? Answer: because we can't possibly understand how it could work any other way. And not because we just assume, but because we looked and it seems impossible according to the laws of chemistry. But that doesn't mean we're right just because we can't see the answer.

What about this: math is an abstract concept like you say. But the system most of us use is based on the power of ten. The digit repeats and a new one is added at the tenth place. Could that have something to do with the amount of fingers we have? Well what if the alien in question used a system that repeated at the ninth place? Their whole system would follow different rules. What if they used a system that had an individual symbol for every number up to two-hundred fifty million, seven hundred sixty-seven thousand, eight-hundred and fifty-three? What if they were so evolved that powers didn't even make a difference and they could fill a quadratic equation with numbers that were all based in different powers?

And if they were a race (another human term) whose individual bodies consisted of different, interchangeable parts, then math would be essential to their existence. It would be as natural as eating. To a species like that, we would look like childish morons playing with our own snot. Even though we use separate, distinct powers to program computers.

And that's just assuming that our aliens only understand things as far as the three dimensions we live in. What about a fourth dimensional alien that only communicates through careful waves of sulfur emission? To us, it might just be a giant blur that smelled like shit. You know what we'd do? That's right, we'd light it on fire.

"The latest disaster for the solar system is that the United States has decided to go to Mars. And, of course, later we intend to colonize deep space with our Salad Shooters and Snot Candy and microwave hot dogs. But let me ask you this: What are we going to tell the Intergalactic Council the first time one of our young women throws her newborn baby out of a seventh-story window? And how do we explain to the Near-Stellar Trade Confederation that our representative was late for the meeting because his breakfast was cold, and he had to spend thirty minutes beating the shit out of his wife?

Do you think the elders of the Universal Board of Wisdom will understand that it’s simply because of quaint local customs that over 80 million of our women have had their clitorises and labia cut off and their vulvas sewn shut in order to make them more marriageable and unable to derive pleasure from sex and thus never be a threat to stray from their husbands’ beds?

Can’t you just sense how eager the rest of the universe is for us to show up?"

- George Carlin

>> ^ChaosEngine:

Much as I love Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I feel he's wrong on this. I've said it before, but I think our ability to understand abstract concepts such as math should mark us as sufficiently different from the other species on our planet.


That's a temporary uniquness. We're ahead in time. The most "advanced" species currently on the planet. Not the end-all of uniqueness. If we were to vacate the planet for five million years, there might very well be a Planet of the Apes where the chimps evolve rapidly in our absence to the point of full technological civilization. But humanity would have continued to evolve over those five million years. And we'd probably have kept tabs on the chimps somehow (this is the story behind 2001). And by the time the chimps reached the point we are at now, we'd probably be utterly disinterested in talking to them (or wise enough to just sit back and watch the show).

Much as I love Neil DeGrasse Tyson, I feel he's wrong on this. I've said it before, but I think our ability to understand abstract concepts such as math should mark us as sufficiently different from the other species on our planet.

There have been no long term studies about effects on cars yet. None at all. Some did it a few years, but thats simply not enough. Here in Germany manufacturers actually didnt release proper lists which cars work with it and which wont until right after E10 was introduced, and even now they are changing those lists regularly. Sure, in other countries they have been running that stuff your years and years, but those countries also have no studies about it. As long as there is such a srisk (and we all know ethanol attacks aluminum and some plastics, that are in fuel pumps and fuel lines and injectors, etc, there is no way to tell how safe it is. Because the manufacturer only care about sales. If engines break sooner, thats just ok, especially since it was forced by the government, so "they are not to blame".

Its detrimental because it drives up the price of food. Have you checked the course of it lately? Also gasline becomes even more expensive because of it, to make people buy it. Very well visible when Germany added E10. From one day to another the prices jumped by 8 cent. Rich dont care about such increases in cost. But poor are hurt a lot by it.
Just look at Indonesia and the palm oil desaster. Many people are actually starving because farmers stopped producing food and instead make palm oil now. And even that palm oil isnt meant for the domestic market, its going straight to foreign countries. In South America the rain forrest is burned down every day to make place for bio fuel plantages. You should Google about soy, corn and Monsanto while were at it. Theres a good documentary about that too, that will open your eyes.

We dont even know how much oil we have left or exactly how it was created. I dont know the English word for it, but theres the "Erdölkonstante" that shows that since people found oil they always thought it will be depleted in a few years and those years are nowadays actually at the highest point ever and has been at this for several decades without decreasing. As long as we still have enough, there is no need to raise prices and develop stuff that hurts people and cars. Yes, the raise is artificial. To get the rich even richer.
There has not been "oil peak" yet, instead oil production is still increasing a lot, and many countries could raise it by a lot more if they wanted to. But they dont want to because the prices would fall drastically.

Bio fuels are a desaster for humanity. They hurt so many people, its not funny anymore. Also they are not better than gasoline for the environment. All taken together, they are actually much worse. To call bio fuels good for our planet is a farce, and if you really believe that its good and even an alternative to consider, youre just a sock puppet for the corrupt rich. Sorry.

1. I was taught Creationism at Sunday school. I was taught evolution at real school.
2. It's not a matter of belief. Evolution is demonstrably the best answer as to how we got to where we are on the planet. Creationism is a fairy tale, where the magic man creates THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE in a day, and then creates our planet over the course of the next 6. I never took it any more seriously than I took Mother Goose bedtime stories.