I'm right there with you on almost every point.
I can't blame Bob for being misled. All I can do it point out to him that he knows that partisan '24-7 news' organizations don't tell the truth, and he should not listen to them...any of them, but particularly Faux, (pronounced 'fox', but still meaning fake) which is by far the worst of them.
I do understand the reason they, and others, have been so successful. I think that's all the more reason to point out at any opportunity what they are (propaganda machines) and what they aren't (news) to remind anyone listening that if they MUST watch, remember it's only entertainment, not information.
It's a sad thing that one must do their own research on nearly any topic they wish to be informed on. Faux is not the only culprit by far, nor the only side that does it, but it is the face of the industry, so they get targeted the most (at least by me).
I will give the benefit of a doubt that that's why he's here, but it could just be because he enjoys 'debate' and knows he can always find someone to argue against his ideas here, not that that's a problem for me. It's a large part of why I enjoy the site (not the only reason by far), and why I certainly don't want those who I disagree with to leave. I have to hope they take my discussions in the spirit they are intended and not as personally insulting, which I understand is how they often could be interpreted.
Absolutely, people are different, and come to different conclusions and solutions to the same problems. If we can't discuss ALL these ideas (at least the reasonable ones based in reality) we don't evolve (or stunt ourselves) socially. I also agree the biggest issue is the actual facts and data being misrepresented by those with agendas, any agenda.
Yes, I do remember the birth of the teabaggers (indicated by the fact that I still call them teabaggers, their original 'clever' name until they learned what it means), but it was so quickly taken over by those with 'keep youre government hands off my medicare' and 'Obama is a Kenyan Nazi' signs and tri-cornered hats it's hard to recall that tiny time period I might have been with them.
I'm always saddened how easily groups of people end up being misled. The teabaggers had it right to start, even with their name. Their intent was to make the major parties 'suck our balls' and clean up, so.... ;-)
I also hope Bob will continue 'debating' with me. I was actually upset when Chingalera went off the rails. On those occasions when he was respectful we got along great and had an amazing amount in common (although rarely agreed, never on politics). Unfortunately he did not act respectfully often.

Damn it, now you got me lecturing right back! Lecture over.
Professor Newt will only be in his office from approximately 3:00-4:00 ;-)

oh god, you're another one of those "The parties are equal, so why vote" people.

Sorry, but you simply haven't been paying attention if you think they're equal. Even if you were to disagree with me on which party is less bad, that's still a more principled argument than this "the parties are equally bad" nonsense.

don't get me wrong, I despise parties, I'm an independent, If it was up to me, parties would be banned. But don't think for a second that I still can't make a value judgement and make a determination as to which party is less bad.

Saying they're equal is a cop out, its laziness...and it's part of the problem.

It reminds me so much of the media how they will try to prop up both sides of a argument to promote sensationalism. Obama is probably a citizen....But he might also be a Muslim Kenyan Communist. You never know people, it could go either way. Don't make a decision, let's promote the ratings---err I mean agony as long as possible.

I'm not your son, little one.

...and I ain't your buddy, pal
....nor am I your pal, friend
...and I'm not your friend, buddy.
Keep spouting angry drunken spittle laced vitriol, it's a helpful reminder of your incessantly insipid mannerism.
your tired, scripted labels son, an insipid sack of programmed faux-newspeak designed for one simple purpose: to garner any attention for the unpopular ineffectual and powerless attention whores that can't get positive attention for their ideas or comments so they troll for negative attention, the only kind they can get.
And the thing you (as per your MO) misquoted was "Teabagger wannabe ex-patriots", which are the idiots that whine about how awful America is 'now' and that they're going to leave the country because a socialist Kenyan is president and he's ruining the country (but they never follow through, to my chagrin)...not 'Teabagger wannabes', who just want to suck my balls....again, your comprehension has proven to be low.

2. I'm fairly certain there was drug dealing going on in at least one of those crowds harassing the cops. If not, it would be out of character for these groups.
3. Well, you said crime on private property is no one's business but the owner...that's Bullshit, which you admit now.
Shooting a gun violates public discharge laws, sends a projectile on a random arch to impact somewhere, and creates noise violations (especially in the middle of the night like these)...or can I come to your neighbors property and start my shooting range.
4. My point exactly
5. Use of taxpayer services while shirking your duty to pay taxes is theft and treasonous.
6. once gain, business regulation didn't cause the crime problem.
7. Are you suggesting giving the public property to private industries for them to 'take over' the entire city? First, can't happen. Second, shouldn't happen. Living in Disney is terrible, oppressive, expensive, and draconian. I don't see a difference between paying taxes for services and paying 'homeowner fees' for services, except homeowner fees are usually far more expensive for fewer services and more regulation. Not the direction I think most want to go, or a place where most Oaklandites could afford.
So, you aren't anti regulation, only if a Kenyan is doing it to you? That's just dumb.
8. Yes, but those reasons are not capped and/or solely created by having a democrat in power, as you and others suggest.
Most property owners in Oakland are absentee landlords that don't inspect their property regularly, because private ownership does NOT mean better management.
I get mob justice because you keep pushing for it, it's what the Mexicans did that you keep referencing, and it's what you get with a private, unregulated, armed 'group'.
9. Send me the URL to a company that gives actual security for $35 a month that isn't simply a guy you call on the phone who then calls the police. Never heard of any such thing, and if it exists, you are paying your on-post 24/7 security guard $1 a day, I don't think they'll care so much when you get knifed in the throat for that money.

So, you don't drive, you don't US dollars, food products, electricity, mail, internet, phones, water, sewers, public property, items that are imported, items that traveled inter-state, television, or any other service provided by the feds? Impressive. So many of your fellow Americans do that it makes semse for everyone to pay for part of these things so they are available to EVERYONE. Private institutions taking over make all of these for profit, removing their usage from many if not most people.
Yes, really, many people in the bay are having trouble paying their bills and feeding themselves, it's insanely expensive there.
I don't pay much in taxes, only my fair share. That's not enough to support one indigent. If you pay enough to support Oakland by yourself, you are either Bill Gates or a liar.
Most law abiding citizens have no inclination to grab their gun and go on the streets to patrol.
This didn't seem like you ignored me, neither did the 2 other posts that followed.
Sorry, mixed up the insanity.
You always have terrible governing from any governing body, from some point of view. It's a fallacy to conclude otherwise.
If you got your 'lack of governing' you would quickly get foreign governing.
So, there is no utopian free market, just the real, regulated one you're complaining about.
I don't think most libertarians agree with you that libertarian government is anarchy. I don't.
Well, I'm confused. You've spent a bunch of time and effort trying to convince me of your points, but you claim you know it's futile to even try...so what are you doing then?
To me, good government means doing the minimum it can to do what the populace wants, with safeguards to keep one group from taking unfair advantage of another. Better safeguards could make better politicians (yes, that's regulation, of politicians).
I know very little of 'praxology' that I didn't read in Foundation. Not in my science publications that I read regularly.
The tea party took over the libertarian party, and the republican party.
I do, I vote, and I pay my taxes. I don't have these problems, or over-regulation problems where I live. WOW! It worked!

And I paid for my excessive education, I only did 2 years in public school which was daycare. You don't seem to have any information I'm looking for.
If you think a mob of only your friends and family should roam the streets armed to 'protect your interests' then you support gangs. That's exactly what they are. To get enough to regulate activities in a place like Oakland would take a HUGE mob, far more than you have friends and family I'm certain.
I might hope you DO need the police to help you (with something minor, but enough to create your 'need'), then you might realize they are not all your enemy or useless and not far worse than anarchy. It's sad to think that it would take a personal need for you to realize that, but apparently it would.
The police are not a 'foreign' army, like the red coats.

This is heartbreaking. Kenyan ingenuity is amazing (as it is everywhere in the world where people can't just throw away things and buy new). The vehicles they use would have been condemned decades ago here in the UK, but without a big spares network, dealer servicing or even a garage to work in they keep them running.

He's following his dream and good for him. It's just so painfully obvious that he's never going to get there. Anyone who looks at what he built and even think 'maybe...' is obviously completely oblivious to aeronautics!

There are some great examples of awesome, life changing technologies which have been created out of scraps in the African bush, like the kid who built windmills in Malawi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8257153.stm

But it seems for every person who does great things, others fall by the wayside.

I'm glad I don't have to live like they do in Kenya, but I wouldn't mind a bit of their spirit. Dude's built more than I have...

We're pretty much at that tipping point now. More and more people are jumping ship from the Republican party, maybe not in name, but in the ballot box.

All you have to do is to continue to extend the argument. We compromise with the right and go individual mandate, still not enough.

It passes into law, and gets challenged and sent to the Supreme court and gets upheld. STILL not enough.

They then continue their temper tantrum and shut down the gov't over it. public polls swing against them and they go into full damage control mode, blame Obama of course, even though it's purely a congressional issue. Then they pretend the shutdown is a good thing, then they pretend that the shutdown had nothing to do with Obamacare.

STILL not enough so now they whine about the website which yes, does have a grain of legitimate complaint to it. But still, even though they dropped the ball on the website, it's still a non-argument, it's noise. it's distraction. Its nothing that will sway people in the polls. but still they try to pin it on Obama...I'm sure the birthers will now conjure some sort of argument. Obama isn't a Kenyan, he's an IT guy from India sent to sabotage our health care websites.

They just keep grasping at straws and coming up with more and more absurd arguments that don't have any leg to stand on.

I think they're starting to realize that they're losing the culture war. So quite honestly, I think we might be entering a phase where the right starts resorting to a Scorched Earth mentality. If they can't run the gov't then no one can. We've already seen them shutdown the gov't over a constitutionally passed and upheld law. They're willing to oppose a president even when he compromises and embraces THEIR plans.

We're past the point of reasonable opposition here. I think we're going to see more sabotage attempts. We're approaching the point where they're going to have less and less to lose

ahh yes, solving problems by raising voice.

I agree the core problem is money in politics. but the main issue behind that is that ultimately not enough people see that as the main problem, Lets get real here, a non-insignificant number of our nation think our president is a kenyan muslim.

deal with that problem then maybe you can convince people that private money should be removed from politics. but good luck, it's been a problem since the beginning of all government everywhere. but hey, I'm sure your rant made a big dent in the problem. and I'm sure the president making a speech will really do a lot too

You guys are all hearing things. He clearly said "Tanquility base, the Eagle is Kenyan" which is final proof that NASA faked the 9/11 attacks.

All I know is he aint white and he aint teabagging republican white either. So if that doesnt make him a Kenyan communist nazi-muslim, then nothing will.

Oh christ yum yum yum yum.... your salt is delicious. Tastes like loser. MORE.

>> ^quantumushroom:

We're not a real Republic anymore, it's now a dictatorship where King Failure gets to decide if your business gets a waiver from his atrocious obamarxcare. If that's not a direct violation of the 14th Amendment (equal protection under the law) what is?
Also, in case you were unaware, the kenyan has authorized TSA agents to "assist police".
And Mitt is 100% right. Unfortunately for the White/Brown/Black entitlement class, the other 2/3rds of us aren't as happy about the Free Stuff Giveaway.
The stock market (down 1000 points) tells the real story apologists like Stink and libmedia won't.

>> ^quantumushroom:

We're not a real Republic anymore, it's now a dictatorship where King Failure gets to decide if your business gets a waiver from his atrocious obamarxcare. If that's not a direct violation of the 14th Amendment (equal protection under the law) what is?
Also, in case you were unaware, the kenyan has authorized TSA agents to "assist police".
And Mitt is 100% right. Unfortunately for the White/Brown/Black entitlement class, the other 2/3rds of us aren't as happy about the Free Stuff Giveaway.
The stock market (down 1000 points) tells the real story apologists like Stink and libmedia won't.


Yeah I'll bet you and your buddies talk all the time about how if you were in charge you'd take care of all those niggers and spics. Your party is just fucking racist man, it's done, time to move on and reform.

@quantumushroom If you keep slinging bullshit like 'Kenyan' around, you're going to keep being ignored as a bigoted, brainless dickhead. Grow the fuck up

>> ^quantumushroom:

We're not a real Republic anymore, it's now a dictatorship where King Failure gets to decide if your business gets a waiver from his atrocious obamarxcare. If that's not a direct violation of the 14th Amendment (equal protection under the law) what is?
Also, in case you were unaware, the kenyan has authorized TSA agents to "assist police".
And Mitt is 100% right. Unfortunately for the White/Brown/Black entitlement class, the other 2/3rds of us aren't as happy about the Free Stuff Giveaway.
The stock market (down 1000 points) tells the real story apologists like Stink and libmedia won't.


Cry more newb. your tears sustain me. You and your party have officially become associated with the same group of people who yell gibberish at cars as they pass by or the crazy homeless people on the street with the cardboard signs that reads "the end is coming"

We're not a real Republic anymore, it's now a dictatorship where King Failure gets to decide if your business gets a waiver from his atrocious obamarxcare. If that's not a direct violation of the 14th Amendment (equal protection under the law) what is?

Also, in case you were unaware, the kenyan has authorized TSA agents to "assist police".

And Mitt is 100% right. Unfortunately for the White/Brown/Black entitlement class, the other 2/3rds of us aren't as happy about the Free Stuff Giveaway.

The stock market (down 1000 points) tells the real story apologists like Stink and libmedia won't.