What's great that no one seems to have touched on in the media yet is that under most common day laws pretty much every cop could technically be convicted of being complicit in murder, an accessory to a hate crime, et al. Silence and solidarity didn't used to be tolerated from criminals.

Bill and Sam specifically acknowledged that criticism of Islam often gets conflated with racism. But if it's ok to criticize Christianity (as we often do here on the sift) then it's ok to criticize Islam.

Just because racists don't know the difference between dark skinned people and a religion doesn't mean we don't

Lantern53 just recently tried to pull the same stunt and claimed that "police officer" is a race and thus criticizing them was racism.

It's the same thing with political parties. I think parties should be abolished, they needlessly divide the nation, but that doesn't mean I think they're equal in any way. One party is less bad the other. I'm not "racist" towards the party I don't like.

To be fair, I understand where you're coming from. criticizing Islam CAN be a disguise for racism. But that's not where Bill or Sam are coming from. There is a huge difference between making legitimate criticisms and simply bashing Islam because many dark skinned people practice it.

We are fully aware that there are plenty of people who practice Islam and are peaceful. There are plenty of peaceful Christians too. Does that mean I can't criticize Christianity?

This is about the religion, not the people.

In an odd way, The conservatives are right. They often complain that we criticize Christianity, but Islam gets a free pass. Well in that regard, sometimes they're right. (of course there is a reason for that. Americans by and large are not affected by Islam as they are by Christianity simply because Christianity is the predominate religion in America)

And to be fair, after 9/11 there was a lot of hate crimes committed against peaceful Muslim Americans and I think the only reason the crimes were committed were because the victims were dark-skinned I doubt there were many white Muslims attacked.

So because of that phenomenon, I think people are afraid to criticize Islam because they don't want to be conflated with the racist rednecks

Guess what, they were right, Bill and Sam are being conflated with the racist rednecks.

But it doesn't get more simple than this: If it's ok to criticize the bad parts of Christianity despite the fact there are many peaceful Christians out there that don't hold those particular beliefs. Then it's ok to criticize Islam in the same way.

You see an occasional video of cops doing something wrong and think all cops are evil.

Have you ever seen the videos of african-americans rioting or committing hate crimes against white people, or raiding stores or slugging white people or old white people? There are plenty available. Do you then draw the conclusion that all african-american people are evil?

You probably consider yourself a critical-thinker, don't you?

I've been watching a lot about the knockout game as of late. It really does seem to be a hate crime (It's also called Polar Bearing, because it's victims tend to be white). It's caused quite a stir in the black community, as those who know better seem to be cringing and distancing themselves from the attacks as well as possible.

Ultimately, it's the fault of a few individuals who feel powerless enough in their own lives to try to take it out on others. I see a connection between this feeling of powerlessness and the "stop and frisk" laws passed in many of the cities where the knockout game first became popular.

I think the solution to this kind of violence is improving police relations with the affected communities. The first step is getting rid of "stop and frisk", the second removal of police arrest quotas, the third would be reducing the black prison population's non-violent offenders.

If Blacks did not commit more crimes than other groups then women would not be clutching their purses and other demographic groups would not be as afraid.


Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.

The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.

Interracial Crime

Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.

Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.

Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.

Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.

First time I saw this commercial I thought nothing of it. I may have slightly chuckled inside at the joke the advertisement is making, it's cute. I didn't even notice the racial thing until it was pointed out. I actually am quite proud of myself for not noticing, I feel like the kids in the "hate crimes" episode of South Park.

Now the pathetic thing about this clip is the Lawyer asked to comment on this situation. He cites No Laws, he doesn't seem to even be educated in the Law at all. How hard is it to look up? The guy who made the video didn't have a difficult time.

They relayed NO accurate information to their viewing public, and that Lawyer pretty much proved his complete incompetence. That's really bad man.

I'm not gonna argue whether or not it should be a hate crime, personally I don't much like the idea of hate crimes. But the report is staggeringly bad, you have to admit that.

Would this action be considered a hate crime?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTV4fO1m3Xg

Right, but what evidence do you have that this isn't words alone? Between 2001 and 2010 more than 2500 hate crimes were reported in Texas. 11 were prosecuted. Talk to me when we stop hearing numerous local reports per year of obviously hate driven assaults not being charged as such by the police. They claim to be working on it. Making "task forces" and "training officers" yet nothing changes. Even those actions were fought by the city.

I think actions worthy of attention attract their own. They don't come with a manufactured message with a manicured poster boy. It's people in the trenches gettin' 'er done. Having been there watching careerist politicians and clergymen take credit for my and others' efforts I'm left skeptical of those eager for the limelight. I think it's a bit naive not to be.

We aren't talking about Gandhi or MLK here. Why is every good guy Gandhi and every bad guy Hitler? This is a guy running a cop shop. People in this thread have already let on that his guarantees to occupy were BS. He entrapped them just like the rest of the cop shops nationwide. I'm not saying I don't like the guy. He's aiight as far as lawmen go. I just think he talks a bit of the talk for the camera. He makes like he's in the game. That's all. I'll judge him on his record, not his marketing.

>> ^bareboards2:

@bmacs27 we need voices in addition to action. I'm glad that he is putting himself out there via media. That is how one affects change. Gandhi wasn't silent.
Action alone isn't as strong as action and words.
Words alone isn't near as strong as action.
I say good on him.

Wouldn't normally want to agree with anything that was said in this video, but a similar thought occurred to me: He might not be completely wrong in what he said. Right for the wrong reasons, but still approximating the truth. Specifically, the point about 5% of black people actively working to undermine or harm white people and 50% of blacks going along with such actions in some sort of racial allegiance.

Well, besides the fact that the numbers are based on no research at all, the point is too narrowly defined and, in this context, necessarily racist. Having said that, I am willing to bet that there is a certain percentage of every ethnic group which actively hates and seeks to harm members of another ethnicity. Additionally, the 'bystander effect' is pretty well documented and most studies find that no one intervenes in violent situations about 50% of the time.

So perhaps, the point would be correctly expressed as: "Some percentage of people are ignorant and seek to undermine and harm others who they do not perceive as part of their particular cohort. In addition, about half of the human population has a social psychological tick which disables direct, empathetic action when witnessing a violent act" But, of course, that's not inflammatory enough to belong on some conservative blog.

>> ^Payback:

Near all of what was shown is obviously racist.
However, a statement or two have... merit?
http://fear.videosift.com/video/Another-Hate-Crime-Committed-in-America

I believe "Derpyshire" to be racist. I believe that racism is bad.

A couple of his statements, the ones you mention, are the ones I believe are predjudiced, not racist per se. Prejudice --pre-judging-- has been keeping people safe for thousands of years. Racially-based predjudice has questionable merit, but even the "uncanny valley" effect is a genetic pre-disposition towards predjudice. "You don't act perfectly normal, therefore I am uneasy".

I am predjudiced towards people with open, bleeding sores on visible parts of their bodies.

Being, at best, wary of a group of black people, or a black neighbourhood is not racist, nor is it overly bigotted. It's predjudiced, and everyone... EVERYONE... is predjudiced.

>> ^messenger:

The only way some of those statements have merit is that they apply equally to whites or poor neighbourhoods, like, "Stay out of heavily impoverished neighbourhoods." "If accosted by a strange person on the street, smile and say something polite, but keep moving." etc. Any racism that you read into that video is your own preconceptions at work. Being black doesn't give you a free pass through those neighbourhoods.>> ^Payback:
Near all of what was shown is obviously racist.
However, a statement or two have... merit?
http://fear.videosift.com/video/Another-Hate-Crime-Committed-in-America

This is beyond disgusting and doesn't belong on VS. Go to WorldStar or Liveleak for your fix of violence and disgusting ignorance.

It's clearly a racial/hate crime when he's being assaulted by people who are taking glee from the attack itself, AFTER he's already beed mugged "for everything" (as shown in the YT video). Knocking him out, stripping him down, laughing with glee in his face... all these people are disgusting pieces of shit.

The other video wasn't a hate crime IMO, nor in the majority view of commenters, FWIW. The best quote from that link:

>> ^longde:

Anyone who looks soft will be a victim in the rough hoods of Baltimore [...] Black people get robbed, beaten and shot in Baltimore regularly.

The only way some of those statements have merit is that they apply equally to whites or poor neighbourhoods, like, "Stay out of heavily impoverished neighbourhoods." "If accosted by a strange person on the street, smile and say something polite, but keep moving." etc. Any racism that you read into that video is your own preconceptions at work. Being black doesn't give you a free pass through those neighbourhoods.>> ^Payback:

Near all of what was shown is obviously racist.
However, a statement or two have... merit?
http://fear.videosift.com/video/Another-Hate-Crime-Committed-in-America

It was 65 degrees that night. I've lived in florida, that is not "fucking cold" weather.

Edit: I looked at the other link, and this other expert claims Zimmerman says "fucking punks". So two enhanced sound tracks with two experts with two different conclusions. Doesn't sound like an exact science to me.>> ^chilaxe:

@longde
The audio has since been clarified, but even in the beginning the "coon" claim was speculative.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/324776/201204
06/cold-coon-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-911-racial.htm
http://s2smagazine.com/stories/2012/04/enhanced-audio
-george-zimmermans-911-call-released
Zimmerman campaigned in the past on the side of African-Americans in his community against the local police department. For some reason that gets left out of these narratives.
Science is best left to data, which is always more interesting than evocative narratives that pick and choose.
But the point is that nobody can change that you can put any gang member or someone who thinks of themselves in that way in a gated community and you get the same results. And on the other hand, if you put Herman Cain's son (2nd from right) there, who probably doesn't have a gold grill and gang-like tattoos and doesn't like to fight, you get entirely different results.

No, you get the same result. It could be young Obama, and you get the same result. That's the thing about racism: it is based solely on appearance. Any interpretation of behavior is influenced by pre-conceived bias.

Also, stop blaming the victim! You can pull up facebook photos and youtube videos of young people of every race imitating rap stars. It doesn't make them gang affiliated.

>> ^chilaxe:

@longde
The audio has since been clarified, but even in the beginning the "coon" claim was speculative.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/324776/201204
06/cold-coon-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-911-racial.htm
http://s2smagazine.com/stories/2012/04/enhanced-audio
-george-zimmermans-911-call-released
Zimmerman campaigned in the past on the side of African-Americans in his community against the local police department. For some reason that gets left out of these narratives.
Science is best left to data, which is always more interesting than evocative narratives that pick and choose.
But the point is that nobody can change that you can put any gang member or someone who thinks of themselves in that way in a gated community and you get the same results. And on the other hand, if you put Herman Cain's son (2nd from right) there, who probably doesn't have a gold grill and gang-like tattoos, and doesn't like to fight, you get entirely different results.