....my kinna fuckin' diatribe...

win win win.

well... my only argument against swearing is that it is considered vulgar and that's all it takes. If it is considered vulgar by the masses, then in practice, it IS vulgar and ought to be avoided. It might be reason enough to avoid those certain words that people are made uncomfortable by them and generally think less of you if you use them. You can say they are meaningless all day long if you're rich, but if you care about your career and your personal life, you should care about your choice of words as well. Pragmatism is a tool and swearing hurts you, ideologue or not.

Anyway, I've found that if you almost NEVER swear, then when you do, people are all the more shocked and know you mean business. If you swear all the time, the words mean nothing and no one cares about what you're trying to emphasize. I save my curses for very important moments. It works profoundly well. People are downright blown away and know you are supremely pissed off. ...as apposed to merely annoyed. They really LISTEN when you save the cursing for the right moment.

the dog part at the end was a bit pyscho

Doc_M, I fantasize about raping 7 year olds, after torturing them by pouring boiling lead down their throats, and urinating on their corpses.

What's more offensive? What I just said? Which is perfectly okay on daytime television, or saying "I fucking love pussy"? Note that I used no profanity in the former.

You say, "If it is considered vulgar by the masses then in practice, it IS vulgar", while true for those who find it vulgar, it seems to me that we should expect of others, and ourselves, justification and reasoning for our decisions.

It's the ideas conveyed that give words utility, many of the ideas that can be expressed though use of words deemed profane are in fact not offensive.

"I fucking love pussy" means -> "I thoroughly enjoy vaginal intercourse" - does that offend you? If so, why?

The other needs no explaination. I agree that the use of some language can come at a price, the question is; "Should it?"

@Doc_M, actually it's been my experience that people who cuss a lot are very good at finding ways to let people know they're pissed off. They're a hell of a lot better at it than people who are squeaky clean.

On the other hand, Penn wrote an article about trying to stop swearing:

http://pennandteller.com/sincity/penn-n-teller/excite/swear.html

I'll defend anyone's right to use profanity, and I occasionally use it myself. I only object to overusing it. Why? To retain it's ability to shock. My pet peeve is people who use the most intense swear words available - like "motherfucker" or "cunt" when talking about their friends. My reaction is "Uh...you've just wasted the most intense swear words available to describe a friend. What do you have left to call an enemy?"

Penn's essay points out that if you try not to swear, it forces you to say what you mean. In a political debate, it's easy to say that your opponants arguement is "bullshit" - it's a lot more difficult to say "no, you're wrong". Because then, you have to say why they're wrong.

This is Penn's essay:

I've stopped swearing. I'm 42 years old and from the time I was 16, I talked like carnies and rockers and truckers and sailors. I tried to talk like all the cool people, using obscenity for every part of speech. It seemed like a ticket into a special group of outsiders. I never used hard obscenity on stage, but I was always trying to slip expletives onto the radio (you do know that the FCC is unconstitutional on every front, right?). But in daily existence, I talked trash.

Several months ago, I went to see Slash's Snakepit at a venue in Vegas. He played his guit-box like a ringin' a bell. I was enjoying the show. After the third selection, when it was time for Slash to welcome us, he said, "Welcome. We're really glad to be back in the USA. We were in South America and those people didn't understand us. It feels good to be home.

But, he didn't use those words. I don't have a tape, and I wasn't taking notes, but the words he said were along the lines of, "Oh # man. How you #ers doing? It is so #ing great to #ing be #ing back in this #ing coun-#ing-try. #, man, #. I mean, #. #, man, #. I mean #. Down there, well, #, they #ing don't #ing speak #ing English, man. #. #, it's so #ing great to #ing be here.

In the previous quote, "#" stands for the favorite root word of all wise-cracking, sophisticated, modern folk (it also drove my spell checker nuts). That magic word can be used for every part of speech (yes, its function can even be Conjunction Junction).

I sat in the balcony wondering if I sounded like that. I started becoming more aware of swearing. I had an epiphany -- I realized no one thought I was talking like a carney. They thought I was talking like a mall kid. Nowadays, who knows how carnies talk? It's like tattoos. They used to mean you were on the bally, in the joint, or on the sea. Now, tattoos and swearing just mean you've been to Tower Records. Even mall T-shirts proclaim the magic word.

I still use all those words, even the "C" one that still has some small amount of integrity and magic. However, I only use them for their literal meaning. If I'm talking about real sex, I don't talk baby talk. You won't catch me "making love," "doing it," or even "screwing." But I don't use obscenity as empty modifiers or even as a sexy synecdoche.

My decision to stop swearing is not a moral position. It's not to be polite. It's not to fit in. Quite the opposite. It makes me say what I mean and that's often not polite. Not swearing takes my rants off auto-pilot. Not swearing makes me think. It gives those words their original magic in their literal meanings. It makes them sexier when I'm talking about sex.

I started stopping swearing with some friends. It's difficult, but it's pretty fun. We say more of what we mean. We've started making it clear whether we're displeased with someone for their morals, their style, their hygiene, or their looks (all valid reasons). We no longer label them all with one compound body part metonym. We've become more precise. There's more information.

When someone is talking nonsense, it's bolder, more aggressive, and less acceptable to say, "No, that's not true," than to shout a friendly, ho-hum, reference to bovine fecal matter. Not swearing is not the right thing to do. It's not the classy thing to do. It makes the truth plainer and that's rarely soci ety's view of polite.

There is a downside. Last night I banged the little toe of my right foot hard on the door jam in the middle of the night. I had nothing to say.

video no longer available :-(

Cheese it, its the cops! Looks like all the long bullshit! was pulled from google
http://linkstobullshit.blogspot.com/2006/08/links-to-23-penn-and-teller-bullshit.html

Well it does say, please try again later.

*dead

This published video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by eric3579.

bl968 has fixed this video's dead embed code - no star awarded because bl968 was awarded too recently.

*dead

This published video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by mintbbb.

Awarding mauz15 with one Power Point for fixing this video's dead embed code.

*dead

This video has been declared non-functional; embed code must be fixed within 2 days or it will be sent to the dead pool - declared dead by eric3579.