30 years in the music business and this guy still doesn't understand how to write a song. You know what I don't want to hear, 4 minutes of shredding. I will never hum this in the office. I will never be riding the subway and want to take out my ipod and listen to this nonsense. Just a snoozefest from beginning to end.

Wow, so thats why he's just been so unsuccessful... While I agree, doesn't necessarily belong in your ipod or office speaker drivel, or God forbid, be hummed along to (and please dont try) its meant to be watched, heard and experienced... and therein lies the awesome factor

>> ^handmethekeysyou:

30 years in the music business and this guy still doesn't understand how to write a song. You know what I don't want to hear, 4 minutes of shredding. I will never hum this in the office. I will never be riding the subway and want to take out my ipod and listen to this nonsense. Just a snoozefest from beginning to end.

If it can't be hummed then it's not a song. Thanks for clearing that up.

I feel Nightwish's Crimson Tide stands to show that a song can be good listening without lyrics.

http://videosift.com/video/Nightwish-Crimson-Tide-Instrumental-Roll-Tide

>> ^handmethekeysyou:

30 years in the music business and this guy still doesn't understand how to write a song. You know what I don't want to hear, 4 minutes of shredding. I will never hum this in the office. I will never be riding the subway and want to take out my ipod and listen to this nonsense. Just a snoozefest from beginning to end.

I have no particular attachment to lyrics. I love instrumental jazz, enjoy classical, and have been on a major kick of foreign rock lately because it's great to be able to appreciate voice as an instrument without having to understand the (frequently) trite lyrics.

Roll Tide establishes a theme and presents variations on it. It's structure is quite classical, as a lot of metal is. The issue I raise with Vai (& Satriani & Michael Angelo Batio) is that they are shredding for the sake of shredding. I don't stand opposed to shredding, but I feel that it's at its best as an interlude to a piece with harmony, melody, arc, etc.

A drum machine and two guitars is just not my idea of a good time (except for maybe Ratatat). I certainly appreciate the absolutely insane technical skill of these guys, I just often believe that they're squandering it.>> ^juliovega914:

I feel Nightwish's Crimson Tide stands to show that a song can be good listening without lyrics.
http://videosift.com/video/Nightwish-Crimson-Tide-Instrumental-Roll-Ti
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I know I'm not supposed to feed the troll, but:

It is not a song if it is not sung. An instrumental is called a piece, and songs are a subset of pieces. You can hum any piece, song or otherwise.

You are more likely to hum a theme from a piece if it has a straightforward structure (but with just enough deviation to be "catchy"), is frequently repeated in the piece, and if it strongly stands out from the rest of the piece's elements. That said, and in the vein of repetition, usually the largest determining factor for recall is simply being subjected to it frequently.

This is why I will get Lady Gaga songs stuck in my head despite not owning any of her albums (I hear people blasting it from their cars at least once a day) or why you may have found yourself singing "♫ that tonight's gonna be a good night ♫" to yourself, even though you find the Black Eyed Peas abhorrent (the line is repeated ad nauseam at the top of the song).>> ^DrewNumberTwo:

If it can't be hummed then it's not a song. Thanks for clearing that up.

You're right, it's not a song if it's not sung. I didn't realize that. However, doesn't that make your first comment rather pointless? I still don't see how being able to hum something has anything to do with... anything. Humming has a limited range and speed. Whether or not a piece of music is something that you think about as you're going about your day doesn't determine if it's music or not. Of course, you're welcome to like or dislike whatever you want. I couldn't hum any part of any Gaga or BEP song if my life depended on it.

As far as guitar tracks go, that sounded pretty good, i've enjoyed listening to straight guitar work since surfing with the alien. I agree their talent could be used better.

I actually agree with Handmethekeysyou a little bit. It's like reading straight up philosophy. If you're in to that field it's all good, but it takes a real brain to weave it into a story - to the point that I feel some would be philosophers are cowards for not trying to.

I used to think even the guitar solo's in songs were just time fillers. It takes a true maestro to make a story of it and catch my ear, shredding for it's own sake makes me bleah.

>> ^Enzoblue:

I used to think even the guitar solo's in songs were just time fillers. It takes a true maestro to make a story of it and catch my ear, shredding for it's own sake makes me bleah.


Neal Schon is the master of making a lead into a story that fits the song.

I have to say when I posted this I expected it to fizzle, maybe sift because of Vai in there, but Im really surprised at the ensuing debate it set off. pretty cool!

Totally agree. David Gilmore was a big high for me too. The solo's on Comfortably Numb were exactly what I'm talking about. >> ^Duckman33:
Neal Schon is the master of making a lead into a story that fits the song.

>> ^Enzoblue:

Totally agree. David Gilmore was a big high for me too. The solo's on Comfortably Numb were exactly what I'm talking about. >> ^Duckman33:
Neal Schon is the master of making a lead into a story that fits the song.


Yes, another great example of a man that puts feeling and emotion into his lead solos. Tom Scholz and Barry Goudreau of Boston were also very good at this.

>> ^handmethekeysyou:

30 years in the music business and this guy still doesn't understand how to write a song. You know what I don't want to hear, 4 minutes of shredding. I will never hum this in the office. I will never be riding the subway and want to take out my ipod and listen to this nonsense. Just a snoozefest from beginning to end.


I assumed that the female wrote the song/piece as it says "ft Steve Vai". And I realize instrumental guitar isn't for everyone but, as a guitar player, I think Steve Vai has one of the most distinctive and recognizable voices on the guitar. As does Neal Schon (thank you Duckman33). Someone you might be more appreciative of is Eric Johnson. He's a lot more laid back than Steve Vai but, can wail when he needs to. And he's a snappy dresser...