The Jews and Christians were the first and only people to come up with the concepts that murder is bad, freedom is good, all people are equal, you should work hard etc etc...

>> ^Crosswords:
The Jews and Christians were the first and only people to come up with the concepts that murder is bad, freedom is good, all people are equal, you should work hard etc etc...


Duh.

You know, most of my videos aren't political. I've posted some in my time here, but not many overall. It's not that I don't care about politics; it's just that I'd rather post some good music or something that makes me laugh. However, I am SO sick of politicians repeating this LIE about America's Judeo-Christian origins that I felt like I had to post this.

Right now I could launch into a diatribe about how our nation was founded during the Age Of Enlightenment by men who wanted to keep religion COMPLETELY out of the political realm, but it's already been written 475 quintillion times, so by now every American who isn't retarded already knows this. It's just a matter of whether or not you're willing to accept this FACT that possibly separates me from you. Us and them. And after all, we're only ordinary men.

I think John McCain's brain was based on Paleolithic-Christian values.

How can a presidential candidate not know that most of the founding fathers were Deists?

Actually, I know this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian values. Just look at all the slaves they owned!

I do not believe, therefore I have nothing to fear.

But I dislike the hypocrisy of the two party system and its candidates.

That's why I hope for an independent upset! That would be a step in a strange direction if an independent actually one a race for once in these mish mash elections. (hint of misguided hopefulness). We all know the likely hood of that happening, because MCCAIN is bad, and OBAMA is good, and NADER is independent.

On a side note which is more important than the above statement. I recently told a family member that State and Church have to be kept separate. this person said to me "Thats dangerous."
I said, "How so?"
To which "It just is..".
Then "You know whats dangerous? Belief in god has dragged this nation into wars, killed millions of people, and has served to do nothing positive for the state. To me most of you religious types are nothing but tyrannical hypocrites. Free your mind from the institution of god, and the true understanding may reveal itself, there is no god, only us. That is why church and state have to be separate, they have to be completely free of each other, to ensure that no decision is made in to the lord, who does not exist.

Do you really think that a god would condone this reality?"

After all that, this person wouldn't talk to me any more. Not only that, but they think that Obama is a sign that the rapture is upon us. They think he is the Antichrist, he does fit that profile of the christian Antichrist. That's what is so fucked up about the belief in god.

wtf are "judeochristian values" anyway? stoning adulterers to death? giving all your money to the poor? worshipping a single god on saturdaysunday?

fucking stupid.

wait... i think he means "shooting and/or burning people who don't believe in your god". yeah, america was definitely founded on that.

McCain is an idiot who isn't worth listening too. Nevertheless, America was absolutely founded on the Bible. It's a historical fact alluded to in the foundational documents of the American Nation. To quote from the Constitution of the State of Wisconsin:

"We the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings, form a more perfect government, insure domestic tranquility and promote the general welfare: do establish this CONSTITUTION."

Furthermore, the congress in this nation agreed, and in 1983 passed public law 97-280 which recognized the fact that the Bible was instrumental in this Nations inception.

The first Continental Congress ever held in this country was opened with Judeo-Christian Prayer. http://tinyurl.com/5zs6q3

To see mountains of evidence to this effect, see http://www.wallbuilders.com/.

Rebut that with which you disagree with relevant fact and law.

There are no facts. The law in 1983 was written by modern bias religious fools, and inherently fallible.

State and church must be kept separate.

God does not exist, and never will.

It is you who are evil, that sayeth believe in book written so long ago that you have to take on faith what is written in it as truth.

There is no truth, there are no lies, there is no devil there is only us.

Free your mind from the folly of religion and realize what happiness you have on this earth, this instant, gotten from the spinning of electrons around a nucleus.

Go read a history book, instead of a book on faith.

It scares me that this guy has a decent chance of winning; not because his arguments are valid, but that racists will vote for him, seeing him as the lesser of two evils. We need a third option. Like "None of the above".

There is an option, vote independent. Or don't vote at all. Carlin has a video on that.

The fact that America was founded on the bible is not something to be proud of...

^ Nor is it something to be ashamed of.

The United States: A Country founded on Paganism
My biggest problems are that christians come up with the answer they want then fabricate the evidence to support it, this can be done in many cases. Check out the above link which proves that america was founded on pagan beliefs.


Rebut that with which you disagree with relevant fact and law.

The reason McCain said this is because it's exactly the kind of bullshit that christians respond to.

That's all you need to know.

It seems the sarcasm in my original comment was not appreciated by a few; ah well can't please 'em all.

Actually I really don't think it matters if it was or wasn't founded by people with Judeo-Christian values and principles (As MINK pointed out whatever those are). The fact is the principles set forth by the constitution can be, and were argued for on a basis other than God's will. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the word God does not occur once within the US constitution. The only mention of religion I'm aware of occurs in the first amendment saying "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

I think suggesting because some of our founders were people with Judeo-Christian values means we should support any legislation that claims to be about Judeo-Christian principles and values, is about as stupid as saying we should all support bad dental hygiene because George Washington had foul breath and wooden teeth.

Again, if something is based on Judeo-Christian values that's fine with me, but it had better have an argument to back it up that does not credit God as the ultimate source of authority or reasoning.

God does not exist, and never will.

You can't disprove the existence of God, either.

It is you who are evil, that sayeth believe in book written so long ago that you have to take on faith what is written in it as truth.

Without God, there is no good or evil. Everything is permitted.

There is no truth, there are no lies, there is no devil there is only us.

Without belief in a Higher Power, the only supernatural being man can emulate is the devil. Even history's greatest monsters thought of themselves as good people doing what they knew to be best.

Free your mind from the folly of religion and realize what happiness you have on this earth, this instant, gotten from the spinning of electrons around a nucleus.

It's easy to make such proclamations when one is enjoying life and in good health. Those suffering through no fault of their own might not see it that way.

Go read a history book, instead of a book on faith.

Or read both. Religion is an intertwined driving force throughout history, in a world that demands meaning.

To be an atheist is to believe that Hitler and Mother Teresa are now both equally dust and nothingness. If people were capable of crystalline reasoning and not tricked by their own hearts, there would be no need to acknowledge a Higher Power.

my heart isn't tricking me, it's evidence of god blao!

More religious arguments as it relates to America, the fact is McCain and countless other politicians and other say these things because a huge chunk of Americans believe it so they can get away with it. So to them they are speaking the truth. Its History Reconstruction at its worst so that even if its not true you wish it was so therefore its true. Hell give it a few more years and it might be in American History books. For some reason we think history is retroactive so that anything that happens now must of always been. Much like the majority of Americans who believe "God" was always on the dollar and in the pledge just because it is now.

Brahma, Vishnu, or Shiva? I need to know which one to worship so I can start understanding good and evil. Otherwise, I'm just stranded here, wondering how to tie my shoes and comb my hair.

I'm nothing without a divine invisible authoritarian to tell me exactly how to live my life. Without a god in my life, I feel like I could just rape a nun with a soldering iron, then defecate on a kitten while scraping uteri with wire hangers. Or eat at Wendy's and go to work, then watch videos on a sifting site. Either way, I need to know how my robotic overlord wants me to behave. How would I ever figure it out on my own? Impossible, I tell you. Impossible!

>> ^quantumushroom:
Without God, there is no good or evil. Everything is permitted.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Without God, there is no good or evil. Everything is permitted.

Lol. The mushrooms you're smoking must be really good. While we're making blanket statements, Slavoj Zizek said exactly the opposite, that with God, everything is permitted. Why? Because God provides a small number of very general rules. Everything else is fair game. And then you realize God didn't provide an interpretation of how and when to apply those few rules, so now everything becomes fair game!

Without belief in a Higher Power, the only supernatural being man can emulate is the devil. Even history's greatest monsters thought of themselves as good people doing what they knew to be best.

Way to try and wrest your beliefs on the rest of the (sane) world. Without belief in a higher power there is no "devil" to emulate. You fail at basic categorical logic since your devil is himself a higher power (an angel). Atheists are atheist about all gods and "higher beings", whatever you call them. They thus can't emulate them per se, but only emulate the characteristic behaviors ascribed to those entities by religious morons like you. Those behaviors are human, they are universal: they existed before religion and even before language, and they will unfortunately continue to exist for a long time.

It's easy to make such proclamations when one is enjoying life and in good health. Those suffering through no fault of their own might not see it that way.

They might not see it your way either, so stfu.

Or read both. Religion is an intertwined driving force throughout history, in a world that demands meaning.

Only sane sentence in your whole post, bravo.

To be an atheist is to believe that Hitler and Mother Teresa are now both equally dust and nothingness.

Let's see here... "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." (Gen 3:19) Oh, I guess you didn't read that? It's kind of near the beginning though. As for me I think Hitler, by showing us the darkest side of humanity and uniting the rest of the world against him has done a much better service to the world than the prayers of Mother Teresa or anyone else ever did. And if you really read history, you would know the Spanish Inquisition was more like Nazi Germany than anything else in recorded time.

If people were capable of crystalline reasoning and not tricked by their own hearts, there would be no need to acknowledge a Higher Power.

This could be true if a higher, benevolent power spoke directly to us all at the same time. But as it is now, the representatives of that higher power are human and thus are bound to be "tricked by their own hearts" and incapable of crystalline reasoning. What they say is bound to be tainted by "humanity" even if they received a message from higher up (this is even truer if you think all lay people can be representatives of the higher power, like the protestant churches). Thus, whether or not there is really a higher being is a moot point. What matters is that some people truly believe in this illogical bullshit, for better or (mostly) for worse.


What I said here is probably beyond your comprehension, but I thought it would do some good to someone (starting with me).

My Avatar does not approve.

The borthers Er and Onan.
Er was wicked, so god took it upon himself to come down and smite him.
Onan didnt want to come inside of Er's widow, so God killed Onan as well.
Value: Dont come on the floor, God will kill you.

^I'm still alive.

This is shaping up to be perfect Presidential material, going by current standards.

Go go America! Europe loves your insane conservative dictators!

It's not about telling the truth; it's about telling people what they want to hear. It's the truth they want to believe, and they'll get mad at people who try to tell them differently. That's life, unfortunately.

Hell, I'll upvote just for the rabid comments alone. No need to watch the vid!

EDIT: Apparently I forgot to close my </sarcasm> tag. This one's just for you David!

Funnily enough "judeo-christian" can't even bloody well agree on which day to worship on.

Go Jewish, the sabbath is a Saturday but Christ wasn't the son of God, go Seventh Day Adventist, Christ is the son of God and worship on a Saturday. Roman Catholic or any of the derivative religions (protestant, Lutheran etc) and you get Christ + Sunday.

The fact that there are hundreds of "judeo-christian" religions which are all subtlely (or dramatically) different, considering they all derive from essentially the same source, old Testament Jewish, should be more than enough evidence to show that they should not have any hold over the governance of a people. They are inherently biased to their own distorted point of view and the corrupt any law they come in to contact with their viewpoint at the expense of all others because they believe they are acting appropriately.

We need less church in the state (and the associated emphasis on thought crimes, protecting people from themselves etc), not more.

my religous studies teacher said it best... god is one letter away from good. we are supposed to add the extra letter ourselves.

>> ^Bidouleroux:
>> ^quantumushroom:
Without God, there is no good or evil. Everything is permitted.
Lol. The mushrooms you're smoking must be really good. While we're making blanket statements, Slavoj Zizek said exactly the opposite, that with God, everything is permitted. Why? Because God provides a small number of very general rules. Everything else is fair game. And then you realize God didn't provide an interpretation of how and when to apply those few rules, so now everything becomes fair game!
Without belief in a Higher Power, the only supernatural being man can emulate is the devil. Even history's greatest monsters thought of themselves as good people doing what they knew to be best.
Way to try and wrest your beliefs on the rest of the (sane) world. Without belief in a higher power there is no "devil" to emulate. You fail at basic categorical logic since your devil is himself a higher power (an angel). Atheists are atheist about all gods and "higher beings", whatever you call them. They thus can't emulate them per se, but only emulate the characteristic behaviors ascribed to those entities by religious morons like you. Those behaviors are human, they are universal: they existed before religion and even before language, and they will unfortunately continue to exist for a long time.
It's easy to make such proclamations when one is enjoying life and in good health. Those suffering through no fault of their own might not see it that way.
They might not see it your way either, so stfu.
Or read both. Religion is an intertwined driving force throughout history, in a world that demands meaning.
Only sane sentence in your whole post, bravo.
To be an atheist is to believe that Hitler and Mother Teresa are now both equally dust and nothingness.
Let's see here... "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." (Gen 3:19) Oh, I guess you didn't read that? It's kind of near the beginning though. As for me I think Hitler, by showing us the darkest side of humanity and uniting the rest of the world against him has done a much better service to the world than the prayers of Mother Teresa or anyone else ever did. And if you really read history, you would know the Spanish Inquisition was more like Nazi Germany than anything else in recorded time.
If people were capable of crystalline reasoning and not tricked by their own hearts, there would be no need to acknowledge a Higher Power.
This could be true if a higher, benevolent power spoke directly to us all at the same time. But as it is now, the representatives of that higher power are human and thus are bound to be "tricked by their own hearts" and incapable of crystalline reasoning. What they say is bound to be tainted by "humanity" even if they received a message from higher up (this is even truer if you think all lay people can be representatives of the higher power, like the protestant churches). Thus, whether or not there is really a higher being is a moot point. What matters is that some people truly believe in this illogical bullshit, for better or (mostly) for worse.

What I said here is probably beyond your comprehension, but I thought it would do some good to someone (starting with me).


This is the problem with religious freaks. They don't even know their own Bible. Hypocrites every one of them, IMHO.

In the words of one of my favorite movies, quantumushroom: "You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting."

Brahma, Vishnu, or Shiva? I need to know which one to worship so I can start understanding good and evil. Otherwise, I'm just stranded here, wondering how to tie my shoes and comb my hair.

Most--not all--religions state, "We're the only way." What if they're all legit pathways?

I'm nothing without a divine invisible authoritarian to tell me exactly how to live my life...

For people who claim there is no God, they seem to have a very narrow definitions of Who or What God is.

You have free will to f**k up your life all day and night long. There are consequences for every action. The question, then, is why make fun of people who, despite their personal failings, are seeking to do less harm and more good than people who believe in nothing except themselves?

...with God, everything is permitted. Why? Because God provides a small number of very general rules. Everything else is fair game. And then you realize God didn't provide an interpretation of how and when to apply those few rules, so now everything becomes fair game!

With God, everything is doable, but there are consequences. Once again, atheists are choosing the parts of religion(s) they don't like and using them as walls to push against and build strength. You're trying to play the game with half a basketball.

Way to try and wrest your beliefs on the rest of the (sane) world.

The monsters of history were mostly atheists or believed they were God(s). That's fact. Now, once again, a disclaimer: there are good atheists and bad religionists.

Without belief in a higher power there is no "devil" to emulate. You fail at basic categorical logic since your devil is himself a higher power (an angel).

Semantics. You knew what was meant by "devil" in this context: someone who is out for themselves alone at the cost of all others.

Atheists are atheist about all gods and "higher beings", whatever you call them. They thus can't emulate them per se, but only emulate the characteristic behaviors ascribed to those entities by religious morons like you. Those behaviors are human, they are universal: they existed before religion and even before language, and they will unfortunately continue to exist for a long time.

And, per your uncreative insults, it's obvious that being an atheist lends no one automatic wisdom.

Since you have it All figured out, let me ask, since the limits of your behavior are defined only by getting caught or the fear of same, why aren't you out murdering people and taking their wallets when you need money? Why don't you kick children who are in your way? After all, since you're not a kid you can't be easily kicked back. Why don't you cut lines and jump subway turnstiles? Eat food off the shelves as you walk through the supermarket? After all, rules and laws are just made up by other people, as long as they can't or won't stop you (or don't see you) you're free!

To be an atheist is to believe that Hitler and Mother Teresa are now both equally dust and nothingness.

Let's see here... "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." (Gen 3:19) Oh, I guess you didn't read that? It's kind of near the beginning though.

That's referencing the mortal body, not the eternal soul. Genesis in this case, is not a new brand of Axe Body Spray or Phil Collins's old gig.

As for me I think Hitler, by showing us the darkest side of humanity and uniting the rest of the world against him has done a much better service to the world than the prayers of Mother Teresa or anyone else ever did. And if you really read history, you would know the Spanish Inquisition was more like Nazi Germany than anything else in recorded time.

So Hitler was just a "bad example" while Mother Teresa cannot serve as even a good example?

More people died under atheist-led regimes than in all the religious wars of history. The peaceful "philosophy" beyond-all-gods is swimming in an ocean of blood.

If people were capable of crystalline reasoning and not tricked by their own hearts, there would be no need to acknowledge a Higher Power.

This could be true if a higher, benevolent power spoke directly to us all at the same time. But as it is now, the representatives of that higher power are human and thus are bound to be "tricked by their own hearts" and incapable of crystalline reasoning.

You're building a straw man. I'm not telling anyone to believe any particular way, except to suggest that in this Age of Stupidity, one's own judgment and values may not be the wisest, and certainly not at all times. Atheism, in that way, has no room for growth. If you're a mote in a pointless universe, then what? You've narrowly defined who the representatives of God might be and also Who or What God is. You've made the God-concept in your own image so you can knock God down. I freely admit my words don't prove there's a God, but yours don't disprove either.

What they say is bound to be tainted by "humanity" even if they received a message from higher up (this is even truer if you think all lay people can be representatives of the higher power, like the protestant churches). Thus, whether or not there is really a higher being is a moot point. What matters is that some people truly believe in this illogical bullshit, for better or (mostly) for worse.

FAITH IS NOT LOGICAL. That's why it's faith. People who have only their own hearts to follow are angered when told they're tricked--constantly--by their own emotions. Religion addresses the forest of emotions. Logic addresses the acorn of reason.

What I said here is probably beyond your comprehension, but I thought it would do some good to someone (starting with me).

Since I've been an atheist, I've heard all this before. Atheism doesn't lead nowhere because there's nowhere to go, but because it can only accept Nowhere as the final destination.

This is the problem with religious freaks. They don't even know their own Bible. Hypocrites every one of them, IMHO.

Do you really believe only religion is hypocritical while atheism is "honest"?

In the words of one of my favorite movies, quantumushroom: "You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting."

Well then here's your movie quote reply, "I'm not even supposed to be here today."

I prefer clarity to agreement. Good evening.

>> ^quantumushroom:
For people who claim there is no God, they seem to have a very narrow definitions of Who or What God is.

If you'd have read and understood anything at all on the subject that is not religious propaganda, you'd know by now most atheists, and more importantly most prominent ones like Dawkins and Dennett, have the largest definitions of "God". Dawkins is even against the idea of calling the universe "God" like Einstein did (in a moment of poor judgment IMO). Theologians on the other hand, tend to pose more and more abstract, and thus narrower, definitions of God as they go along in order to fend off attacks by atheist and other theologians. Then they fall back on general statements of equivalence like "God is all" or "God is infinity", which mean nothing.

You have free will to f k up your life all day and night long.

There is no free will, but that is another debate. Which you have already lost by the way. A long time ago. Like, centuries ago.

Since I've been an atheist, I've heard all this before.

That's exactly what I meant by "beyond your comprehension". You may have heard it all before, but you've understood none of it. As for the rest of your last post, it doesn't warrant a response.

Ok, I know I said it doesn't warrant a response, but who am I to argue with my own rhetoric? This may be food for thoughts for some of you on the brink of insanity from religious pressures of all kinds.

Semantics. You knew what was meant by "devil" in this context: someone who is out for themselves alone at the cost of all others.

That's also called simply a "criminal" or "psychopath". You're the one doing semantics. Calling a criminal or a psychopath the devil is a figure of speech. But only a religious mind could take this metaphorical equivalence as a fact. Which was my original point: that you fail at keeping different categories separated. Not that you can't use figures of speech.

Since you have it All figured out,

I don't, but thank you for the vote of confidence! I do think I have more things figured out than you do and that unlike you, I'll continue to figure out things in the future and even sometimes change my mind about things I thought I had already figured out. That's science, bitch.

After all, rules and laws are just made up by other people, as long as they can't or won't stop you (or don't see you) you're free!

I suggest (to all of you reading this and thinking "he's got a point", because quantumushroom himself is a lost cause IMO) that you read about evolutionary psychology and game theory. For a somewhat lacking analogy, ants don't kill other ants, yet there is no law or system of justice to punish them and they can't believe in God since they don't have cognition. Then why don't they kill each other? Oh wait, they do. They just don't kill ants of the same colony. If an individual ant thinks all other ants are of the same colony as her, whether or not they really are, then she will kill no one. In a nutshell, cooperation is a good evolutionary strategy, but not a perfect one (and there's nothing better on average).

But to you, we've got free will. Thus the burden is on you to say why I should want to kill my fellow human being. And I would like to know why you, a religious person, think I should want to kill my fellow human being. There are plenty of people, both religious and not, who want to kill each other for plenty of reasons. Why should I want to be one of them and for what particular reasons? "Being and atheist" is not a reason just as "because your religious" is not. Unless you can attach behaviors that are caused by "atheism" and "belief in a religion". But next we'll see why you can't do that with "atheism".

Do you really believe only religion is hypocritical while atheism is "honest"?

(Here religion is taken to mean "any system of belief which at least mandates belief in a God and/or higher beings, natural or supernatural")
Unlike religion, atheism is not a set of belief. It is a statement of unbelief. Thus you cannot ascribe behaviors like hypocrisy to "atheism", only to individual atheists. Likewise "religion" cannot be declared hypocritical at the outset, but individual religions can. And when most religions are hypocritical, we are authorized to say religion itself is hypocritical. That says nothing about individual religious practitioners obviously, but hypocritical things tend to attract hypocrites. At the very least those who come into power into those hypocritical institutions should be hypocrites themselves otherwise the system will crumble over time. Many churches/denominations and whole religions have crumbled over the centuries from this and other problems like it. No one misses them. And no one will miss your religion when its gone.

But who can say the same thing about atheism, since by definition once someone doesn't believe in your religion he is an atheist to you? Atheism was born with the first religious person and will be there to the last. It is not an institution and atheists only have one sure thing in common: they don't believe in a "God" or "higher beings". That's it, nothing more nothing less. Everything else is up to the individual.

So Hitler was just a "bad example" while Mother Teresa cannot serve as even a good example?

No. Mother Teresa was also a bad example. Her prayers were only useless, but the suffering she caused by letting the poor and needy suffer around her in unsanitary conditions is probably the worst amount of suffering directly caused by a single human being in the world. She wanted them to suffer so they could "earn" their place in "heaven". In her psychopathic mind, they were "destined" to suffer and of course she was "destined" to guide them to "heaven". Hitler (a practicing Christian by the way), thought himself "destined" to rid the world of the Jewish menace. And who thinks the Jews are a menace? Christianity and Islam.

FAITH IS NOT LOGICAL. That's why it's faith.

No. That's why it fails (it's the mother of all circular argument).

My mistake, this country wasn't ever founded upon Christianity, the founding fathers demanded the separation of church and state...

Without God, there is no good or evil. Everything is permitted.

Do you mean that without the threat of hell and the reward of heaven, you would have no qualms about murdering people?
Do you mean that without receiving the "word of god" you would not have realized that murder was wrong?
Either way, that's terrible.

The moral quality of attempts to act derives from the forseeable effects and intended effects of those attempts, not from the fiat of a celestial dictator (who would have to base his judgement on the former characteristics, anyway)