Still waiting on this for PC. I'm enough of a sandbox-type game player that I just hope that I can ignore a lot of the storyline to a large extent, but Yahtzee's comments here make it sound like perhaps that doesn't work.

Have you played Fable 1 on PC? Granted there's not the property ownership and selling, but that's the only difference. It's not a sandbox.

Yep, I have Fable 1. I'd agree that Fable 1 isn't really a sandbox game, but there are so few games that *are* that I tend to take games that aren't really in that mold and play them as if they were. As long as I don't have to screw around with *too much* story to get to where I can just run along and do my own thing, I can live with it.

Even the GTA series, probably the most popular example of a fairly "pure" sandbox design, often require you to do some random story crap before you actually open up the map... There's always roadblocks at the start of the game unless you mod them out!

Pwetty lake

Sounds like Peter Molyneux needs to retire.

Fable 3 was my last chance for Peter M. He fucked me with B&W, and he fucked me with the first two fables... always over-promising and under-delivering. And like an abusive relationship, I bought into the hype and let him fuck me again, but I swear this is the LAST TIME. NO MORE.

What pissed me off the most about the sudden change at the end of Fable 3 is that it was symptomatic of very bad setup and story telling. Quest after quest, I was told to do one thing, but in reality the game expected me to do something else.

The best example of this was the quest early on where the game told me that I needed to go and buy a disguise. The in game "GPS" kept leading me back to a pie making mini-game and whenever I went to the store where the disguise was, it just wasn't an option to buy... at no point in this frustrating moment did it tell me that I didn't have enough money for the disguise, or that the pie game would give me said money. Instead it just FORCED me to do the damned pie game because basically there wasn't anything else I could do.

My problem with this is that my frustration could have VERY easily been quelled by one of two things: 1. A price on the fucking disguise or 2. Just something in the quest log itself to TELL me that I didn't have the money necessary and that I needed to go off and do mini-games till I had the funds.

This was basically my experience all the way through. The game wants to fake being a sandbox when in reality it has a VERY clear path it wants you to take, sometimes absurdly so and with little logic to it.

Mind you, I was patient enough to sludge through most of the game after I caught on that I just should not expect logic or ask questions. That was until the end. Yatzee hit the nail on the head, the arbitrary nature of the way the end creeps up on you is pretty much game-breaking. The ideals situation would have been one where I was given the opportunity to KNOW that I would be required to grind out 6mil coin BEFORE the stupid 1 year timer with it's absolutely horrible good/evil choices bullshit came up.

Peter M. must be fucking Frederich Nietzsche because clearly he's gone beyond good and evil with his understanding of what those words mean. I don't think I've ever been as pissed off at a game's concept of good/evil ever.

Fuck you Molyneux. You are the M. Night Shamaylan of the gaming world. Populous was your Six Sense and you've basically shit on us ever since. I vow never to buy another one of your games. (not that he's reading this, but it just feels good to make that assertion)

>> ^MilkmanDan:

Yep, I have Fable 1. I'd agree that Fable 1 isn't really a sandbox game, but there are so few games that are that I tend to take games that aren't really in that mold and play them as if they were. As long as I don't have to screw around with too much story to get to where I can just run along and do my own thing, I can live with it.
Even the GTA series, probably the most popular example of a fairly "pure" sandbox design, often require you to do some random story crap before you actually open up the map... There's always roadblocks at the start of the game unless you mod them out!


Morrowind, Fallout, Gothic, Risen, Oblivion, Just Cause 2, are all more sanboxy than Fable. Maybe even The Witcher, though that is strongly story driven but in a very good way, much more gray and mature than Fable.

@ponceleon

Don't forget

# Syndicate (1993) (producer)
# Theme Park (1994) (project leader/lead programmer)
# Magic Carpet (1994) (executive producer)
# Hi-Octane (1995) (executive producer)
# Dungeon Keeper (1997) (project leader/designer)

I'd say that only after he founded and became leader of Lionhead Studios he screwed everything up and only produced shit.

>> ^MilkmanDan:

Yep, I have Fable 1. I'd agree that Fable 1 isn't really a sandbox game, but there are so few games that are that I tend to take games that aren't really in that mold and play them as if they were. As long as I don't have to screw around with too much story to get to where I can just run along and do my own thing, I can live with it.
Even the GTA series, probably the most popular example of a fairly "pure" sandbox design, often require you to do some random story crap before you actually open up the map... There's always roadblocks at the start of the game unless you mod them out!


The reason I'd say this isn't a sandbox game is not because you can't dick around, but that dicking around is not actually any fun. If you choose to ignore your quests and just go exploring, what you find is some random enemies, a bunch of locked doors and locked treasure chests.

This is because every bit of the world is designed for one quest or another. Exploring only allows you to go through a broken version of a place you WILL definitely be lead through on a quest a bit later.

And the minigames of lutehero, real estate buyer and idiot NPC seducer don't count because, again, they're each just terrible.

Then again I'm not impartial, I have a special hatred for this game because my savegame got corrupted 10 hours in. There's exactly one autosave slot, no backups and no manual saves allowed. So you're just screwed if that happens. And it happens for no apparent reason, it's not linked to any hardware or power failure.

lol at the 'like angry wasps nesting exclusively in the xbox casing'
excellent analogy

>> ^cybrbeast:

@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/ponceleon" title="member since February 8th, 2008" class="profilelink">ponceleon
Don't forget
# Syndicate (1993) (producer)
# Theme Park (1994) (project leader/lead programmer)
# Magic Carpet (1994) (executive producer)
# Hi-Octane (1995) (executive producer)
# Dungeon Keeper (1997) (project leader/designer)
I'd say that only after he founded and became leader of Lionhead Studios he screwed everything up and only produced shit.


Ah, didn't know he was involved in some of those. All quality offerings, but I stand by my overall statement. Since Molyneux grew his gigantic fucking head, he has not made a quality game and has constantly over-promised. I'm done with him and his Miloesque bullshit.

Usually after listening to what Yahtzee says I just make up my own mind. This is the first time I am 100% convinced to never buy Fable 3.

Man I loved Syndicate so much...>> ^cybrbeast:

@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/ponceleon" title="member since February 8th, 2008" class="profilelink">ponceleon
Don't forget
# Syndicate (1993) (producer)
# Theme Park (1994) (project leader/lead programmer)
# Magic Carpet (1994) (executive producer)
# Hi-Octane (1995) (executive producer)
# Dungeon Keeper (1997) (project leader/designer)
I'd say that only after he founded and became leader of Lionhead Studios he screwed everything up and only produced shit.

*dead

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