Great post!

I've got the book which accompanies this song somewhere *starts rummaging through piles of books...

Evil. Mindraping defenceless children earns a great big, heartfelt downvote from me.

A downvote - what else could we expect from gorillaman, he has frequently shown his fanatical intolerance for Muslims in many of his ill-informed and ignorant comments.

What else, indeed.

"Mindraping defenceless children" wtf !??

this is an alphabet song for kids. please take your personal fights and prejudices else where gorillaman

when he was still the cat he was my hero, him and adam ant.

Expired in Queue - 4 day limit.

*save

Saving this video from queue deletion, sending it to the top of the queue for one more try. Originally submitted on Wednesday 25th April 2007 (save called by gold star member gwaan)

It's very pretty. Thanks.

this is an alphabet song for kids. please take your personal fights and prejudices else where gorillaman

No, it is religious indoctrination disguised as education. Religious delusions poisons everything, Cat Stevens is one sad example.

This is specifically targeting religion at children; even many moderates agree that's unacceptable. Where are your downvotes? Afraid of offending the Muslim?

The sad thing is that people like BicycleRepairMan and Gorillaman don't realise that they themselves have been indoctrinated with an intolerant and fanatical form of atheism which teaches that all religion is bad and that people of faith are mindless. It's a shame that many well known atheists - such as Richard Dawkins - advocate a similarly simplistic and intolerant world view. These atheists don't realise that many of their fundamental beliefs are based just as much on faith as the fundamental beliefs of religious people. Furthermore, they automatically paint religion as incompatible with science and reason without realising that many of the greatest scientists and philosophers of all time were people of deep religious conviction.

As with many religions - my own, Islam, included - atheism has been hijacked by a vocal minority that preach intolerance and hatred. The sad thing is that this vocal minority attack moderate Muslims like Yusuf Islam who preach tolerance, acceptance, peace and understanding. It is just a pity that moderate atheists and Muslims don't speak out more often to criticise these minority voices of hate.

I've always found it hilarious that people claim they chose the atheist route because they despise the intolerance of organized religion. Yet the intolerance of some atheists to simply live and let live is both hypocritical and pathetic. If you really want to remove yourself from the realm of religious debate, go agnostic, don't self-delude that you are better than those that practice religions because even atheism is a form of religious fanaticism.

The sad thing is that people like BicycleRepairMan and Gorillaman don't realise that they themselves have been indoctrinated with an intolerant and fanatical form of atheism which teaches that all religion is bad and that people of faith are mindless.

I am not intolerant towards your religion (believe whatever you want.) I am intolerant to indoctrinating people, especially children, with irrational faith. Often, ofcourse these two things are not independent of each other, Islam is a great example, basically the rule of islam is, (in addition to all other values, good and bad) that you MUST indoctrinate, or that in not submitting totally to God, you dont even really count as a human being. This is not something I invent, its part of most religions, but Islam is worse than most religions in this aspect.

This is comparable to me not accepting promotion of fascism or nazism as "Free Speech" because the very idea of fascism and nazism goes against the idea of free speech. Oh, the irony sometimes witnessed when confused neo-nazis go: "Dont stereotype me!"

I am intolerant to intolerance, in other words.

don't self-delude that you are better than those that practice religions because even atheism is a form of religious fanaticism.

The difference is, I know that I could be wrong, and I know what it would take to convince me I am wrong. God heals an amputee -> BicycleRepairMan goes to church.

To a religious person, the very core idea of the religion itself is that nothing should be enough to convince you that you are wrong. The first three commandments anyone? Its like the first three rules of fight club.. except the opposite.

I am no better than anyone else, we are half a chromosome away from monkeys, I've never pretended to have all the answers, which is why I have such a big problem with those who do.

"Islam is a great example, basically the rule of islam is, (in addition to all other values, good and bad) that you MUST indoctrinate, or that in not submitting totally to God, you dont even really count as a human being. This is not something I invent, its part of most religions, but Islam is worse than most religions in this aspect."

What a load of ill-informed nonsense! It deeply depresses me that most people in the West equate Islam with the creed of a small minority of fanatical, intolerant bigots who believe that a simplistic, literalist, unthinking and misogynist interpretation of Islam must be forced upon everyone else. I've said this before, and I'll say it again:

Islam teaches that 'there is no compulsion in religion' لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّين (Qur'an 2:256). Furthermore the Qur'an states that 'Had thy Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed. Do you then force people to become believers?' وَلَوْ شَاء رَبُّكَ لآمَنَ مَن فِي الأَرْضِ كُلُّهُمْ جَمِيعاً أَفَأَنتَ تُكْرِه النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَكُونُواْ مُؤْمِنِينَ(Qur'an 10:99). These verses have been used as the basis of freedom of religion and freedom of worship laws in many Islamic states. The Medina Document - which is the constitution established by Muhammad for the first Islamic state in Medina - guarantees freedom of belief and worship to Christians, Jews and Polytheists. In modern times an example would be Article II of the Federal Constitution of Malaysia.

Islam also advocates dialogue with other peoples:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَى وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوباً
وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ اللَّهِ أَتْقَاكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ
خَبِير

"O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another." (Qur'an 49:13)

Instead of condemning and stereotyping all Muslims why don't you try talking to them. Hate destroys people, dialogue brings them closer together.

And by the way, if anything, I have deluded myself by reading the wrong books etc. because no-one has indoctrinated me, one way or the other, just for the record. (my parents, for instance are (very moderately) Christians, and I have been baptized..)

"if anything, I have deluded myself by reading the wrong books" - then start reading the right ones!

Dude did I see this coming.

The Qur'an is, just like the bible, like a kicking chicken, you can see it kicking any direction you choose. Sure there are some verses in there that can be used to support an almost secular view, this doesnt take away from the fact that the word Islam means "submission", submission to Allah. The endlessly repeating theme of it, (that can only be denied by a believer under pressure of logic), is that it really doesnt leave any room for doubt. God is Great, everyone should submit to god, and may god have mercy on the ignorant fools who dont. it is the very CORE of the whole thing, you will of course reply "Wrong!" and that the theme is just "being jolly good and nice to everyone", but then again, if that was it, Muhammed could have written that on a post-it note, now, couldn't he?.

"this doesnt take away from the fact that the word Islam means "submission""

No it doesn't! The translation of the arabic word 'islaam' to mean 'submission' is terribly innacurate. The translation dates back to the early days of orientalism when the Qur'an was first translated into English very badly by scholars who had preconceived ideas about faiths other than Christianity. The word 'Islaam' comes from the Arabic root S-L-M. In Arabic 'Islaam' means 'peace' and 'wholehearted self-giving/selflessness'. It is the same idea that can be found at the heart of many Eastern religions such as Buddhism and Taoism.

not weighing in on the video but the comments have me wondering now .....

which one is right, since both religions want you to believe in their god?!?!?!?

'Had thy Lord willed, everyone on earth would have believed. Do you then force people to become believers?' ?????? ???? ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ???????? ????????? ???????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ???????????(Qur'an 10:99)
OR
'For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.' (John 3:16)

Ok, here is the VERY FIRST GODDAMN SECTION in the Qur'an:

SECTION: 1
Alif L'am M'im.[1] This is the Book in which there is no doubt. (Since its Author, Alla
the Creator of this universe, possesses complete knowledge, there is no room for
doubt about its contents.) It is a guide for those who are God conscious,[2] who
believe in the Unseen, who establish Salah (five regular daily prayers) and spend in
charity out of what We have provided for their sustenance;[3] who believe in this
Revelation (the Qur'an) which is sent to you (O Muhammad) and the Revelations
which were sent before you (Torah, Psalms, Gospel...) and firmly believe in the
Hereafter.[4] They are on true Guidance from their Lord and they are the ones who
will attain salvation.[5] 2:[1-5]
In fact, as for those who reject Faith; it is the same, whether you warn them or you
don't, they will not believe.[6] Allah has sealed their hearts and their hearing, their
eyes are covered, and there is a grievous punishment for them.[7] 2:[6-7]

Would you look at that, we infidels are doomed right from the outset, I better go indoctrinate my kids with this crap.

This is the recurring theme of the whole fucking book.(as is the case with most religious books.) Anyone who doesnt see this, I guess Allah must have blinded them as much as he has blinded me. (BTW seeing as he has blinded me already, why should he then punish me further? guess I'm just too blind to understand this flawless logic)

That is not the first section of the Qur'an - it is the first section of an English interpretation/translation of the Qur'an which is: firstly, a very innacurate translation of the Arabic; secondly, heavily influenced by reactionary theology; thirdly very literalist; etc. etc. I could go on but in the end you'll believe what you want to believe.

لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِين

"To you be your Way, and to me mine." (Qur'an 109:6)

I hope you do learn more about Islam in the future and temper your ill-informed views. However if you choose to remain ignorant then it may just be that:

لاَ يُكَلِّفُ اللّهُ نَفْساً إِلاَّ وُسْعَهَا

"God does not burden a person with what is beyond his capacity." (Q. 2:286)

That is not the first section of the Qur'an

Oh, My bad, sorry, in fact, I just had a vision, and Muhammed the prophet himself, peace be upon him, privately revealed to me, in no uncertain terms, that THIS is actually the proper Translation:

"Allah has not really sealed their hearts and their hearing, they are free to believe anything, and its not like there is "a grievous punishment for them" or something like that, lol, that would just be plain ridiculous."

He also reminded me that if I find any other quotes in the english translation of the Qur'an, say, on every other page of it, that seems to bear the same message, its most likely just a terrible, terrible translation.


So there, Phew! I'm glad that got sorted out. BTW: Be careful with those nasty english translations yourself, Muhammed assured me that they most likely means something completely different.

Jokes aside: Here is another example from the good book: Once again this is only translated to the best of someones ability to mean the same as the original, so by gwaans standards its probably completely false, yet I quote:

Rest assured that Believers (Muslims), Jews, Christians and Sabians - whoever
believes in Allah and the Last Day and performs good deeds - will be rewarded by
their Lord; they will have nothing to fear or to regret.

Notice that it doesnt say "..OR performs good deeds" Good deeds doesnt count, unless you believe.

Nothing to fear. interesting. in other words belief on its own, is what keeps you from hell and damnation, nothing else it seems, will do the trick

You have to be a believer, You have to be a believer, YOU HAVE TO BE A BELIEVER. And that seems to be the only thing you really have to be. Once again, That principle is the endlessly repeating mantra of the holy books. The most important virtue of them all, more important than not killing people, not lying to people or helping other people MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING, is the virtue of faith, the belief in God.

As long as you are gullible enough to believe my bullshit, everything will be fine.

I can't be bothered arguing with you - you've not listened to anything that I have said - you are not interested in dialogue or communication - you seek to abuse rather than to understand - you preach intolerance and hatred - you promote stereotypes and simplicity - etc. etc.

While an intolerant minority seek to divide the world, the rest of us - be we Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Atheist, Buddhist, etc. - seek to work together to promote pluralism and tolerance.

you preach intolerance and hatred

Have you finally run out of arguments now, so you just invent a false position for me? I simply refuse to treat irrational beliefs like you treat 3-year olds on christmas eve. You are adults, so start acting like adults, take criticism, and justify your beliefs properly, "God Said So To A Man On A Winged Horse 500 Years Ago" is not even nearly approaching "properly", its simply stupid.

And dont indoctrinate our children with this nonsense.

*cowardly edited to avoid a fatwa

See my last comment here:

http://www.videosift.com/video/Richard-Dawkins-Author-Of-The-Year

BicycleRepairMan, you're funny man. I mean if we follow your line of thinking we should just eliminate Christmas now altogether now shouldn't we? Oh Easter too... I mean it's a indoctrinated religious holiday. Thinking that kids are so easily indoctrinated is funny, I think Islamic parents have too much to worry on their hands to sit and brainwash their kids with Cat Stevens records. Also Gospel music... that is religious no?

I been exposed to all the religions of the world and in no way can I take the absolutist view that all religion is flawed in someway, rather it's the basis upon which scientific discovery took place, because it couldn't provide answers for mans questions in the world. Religion has been and will be for the foreseeable future a major part of what it means to be a human being. For even within the NASA space program, their first orbit around the moon, do you know what they picked to read?

The religions you rail against have passed from time to time to us, the people who preached from them changed. But the basic message never does.


BTW If you ever wish to work outside the Western World it's best to have a tolerable understanding of other religions.

BicycleRepairMan, you're funny man. I mean if we follow your line of thinking we should just eliminate Christmas now altogether now shouldn't we? Oh Easter too... I mean it's a indoctrinated religious holiday. Thinking that kids are so easily indoctrinated is funny, I think Islamic parents have too much to worry on their hands to sit and brainwash their kids with Cat Stevens records. Also Gospel music... that is religious no?

What you want to celebrate is your choice, I celebrate Christmas because I like to spend a few days of with my family and eat good food (So shoot the hypocrit down) I never have, nor ever will force anyone to listen to gospel, either related to christmas or otherwise. Easter is also just a few days off for me, nothing more..

I dont deny the reality that religion exist, and I believe it exists much for the same reasons science exists: We Want Answers, Damnit!

Religion, however simply "gives you the truth" and asks you to believe it no matter what, while Science looks for the truth. People will keep finding gaps in science to put their gods, but nowadays, for anyone familiar with the concepts of evolution by natural selection, those gaps sure are tiny, and the inclusion of a god raises a whole lot more questions than it answers.

I respect, in no uncertain terms, other peoples right to have any religion or belief they want.

Saying that religion simply gives you the truth is simplistic way of following religious thought, the fact is that Jesus himself went through temptation by the devil should clarify that for anyone of Christian denomination. The Bible much like the Qu'ran in my eyes is a allegorical fable or parable. Simply taking it as the truth shows a lack of understanding or through thought about what religion implies.

It is not the fault of religion that it has been corrupted by various individuals that claim to follow the word of God fully. Especially if you follow Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Moqtda Sadr and other people who think they can speak for God in our times.

My personal belief is that religion was primitive mans first steps in trying to contextualize the world we live in. This is something you see the Founding fathers talk about alot since it was before Darwin and other scientific ideas.

"people who think they can speak for God"

This has always been a problem. But people are quick to forget that the fundamental message of Sunni Islam and Protestant Christianity was that there should be no intermediary between you and God. This was a very liberating idea which empowered and emancipated the ordinary worshipper. They were no longer dependent on other people's interpretations of the religious texts but could think for themselves. This inevitably led to a state of pluralism and debate in which the idea of the seperation of religion and state was born. Unfortunately, some people - be they religious or atheist - want everyone to submit to their interpretation of reality and the human experience.

prosyletization of a system of non-thought is in and of itself disturbing, but when targeted at children who by definition have yet to develop finely honed critical thinking skills, then it becomes something more. It becomes sinister. hence, downvote.

Saying that religion simply gives you the truth is simplistic way of following religious thought

Or maybe saying "there is more to it than that" is just overcomplicating things to make it look better or to be easier to compartmentalize. Either you think the bible is a bunch of myths and stories, like I do, or you think there is something really, really special about them, that somehow, whoever wrote them, was guided by an invisible man in the sky.

There is a certain limit to how long you can say "I'm a Christian/Muslim/etc" and completely transform the definition of it until you are nothing but an atheist who enjoys a good story.

"a system of non-thought"

Islam is NOT a system of non-thought devoid of reason. Reason and independent thinking are an important part of Islam. But like all systems of thought - including science - it is based on fundamental assumptions about reality which are not empirically verifyable.

Religion glorifies Faith; Faith denies Reason; Reason defines Humanity.

Spread your poison among your own kind and leave our children alone.

it is based on fundamental assumptions about reality which are not empirically verifyable.

By definition nothing is 100% verifiable but in science case it is all based on empirical thinking. Science also recognizes this uncertainty and need to take ultimate precautions, this is why everything in science is called "theory" and not "Ultimate truth"

The assumptions religions make are things like:
1. There is one omniscient, omnipotent God
2. He wrote a book, and I know this is the right one.

The corresponding "leaps of faith" in science are things like;

1. there is a physical reality
2. logic works.

Obviously the level of assumption here is just miles apart, there is infact very little (technically actually nothing) in science that is deemed to be true from the outset, everything is by definition open to investigation. ie: if you can come up with a convincing argument that there is no physical reality, thats also open to change.

A is for Apple..?

I should have downvoted this the first time I saw it.

(nothing personal, michie)

"A downvote - what else could we expect from gorillaman, he has frequently shown his fanatical intolerance for Muslims in many of his ill-informed and ignorant comments."

Whereas you go around pasting that rhetorical BS about Israel to defend radical Islam.

"The sad thing is that this vocal minority attack moderate Muslims like Yusuf Islam who preach tolerance, acceptance, peace and understanding."

Whu?!?!?

"Under Islamic Law, the ruling regarding blasphemy is quite clear; the person found guilty of it must be put to death. Only under certain circumstances can repentance be accepted.... The fact is that as far as the application of Islamic Law and the implementation of full Islamic way of life in Britain is concerned, Muslims realize that there is very little chance of that happening in the near future. But that shouldn't stop us from trying to improve the situation and presenting the Islamic viewpoint wherever and whenever possible. That is the duty of every Muslim..."

-Yosuf Islam, in response to the publication of Salman Rushdie's "The Satanic Verses"

He is no more "moderate", or sane, than you are, gwaan.