heh
i'm loving this
there's only three outcomes to this downward spiral
1. some nut tries to shoot obama, media goes crazy, spiral accelerates, party dissolves
2. some nut DOES shoot obama, nobody wins - unlikely but a scary possiblity.. there's a lot of hate in the air
3. the party slowly deflates and disappears completely
i'm hoping after they're gone, there will finally be a real multi-party system up - you know, proper one like we have in european countries - just in time for the next election

These protesters clearly understand that if you find yourself in a minority position in the marketplace of ideas, the swiftest path into becoming the majority is to become more and more fringe, using as many Nazi symbols as possible.

WIthout condoning the use of such a symbol, here's another possibility...

http://forums.the-ozone.net/offtopic/messages/105659.html
http://thehipposass.blogspot.com/2009/08/congressman-dingell-gets-earfull.html
http://theblogprof.blogspot.com/2009/08/busted-obama-as-hitler-poster-was.html

Maybe this swatstika was painted by a neolib. The neolib left has long had a history of pulling stunts while disguised as their opposition. It frankly does not take any stretch of imagination to conclude that this was done by some goon of ACORN, DailyKos, or one of any number of left-wing whackjobs. After all, Nancy Pelosi was the one that planted this particular bug in the neolib left's ear when she falsely accused protesters of carrying swatstikas. The neolib left's war-room is in high gear, and it is obvious from their rhetoric that they are trying really hard to MAKE these protests look like the actions of just a few right-wing kooks, when the reality is that they are the wide-spread rebellion and dissatisfaction of the majority of the American people to a terrible plan and an alarmingly out-of-touch political class.

Regardless - any attempt to try and associate the single act of an extremist as the general attitude and opinion of a larger group is disingenous and smacks of desperation and propogandism. Whoever did this represents a tiny fraction of extremists. The bulk of the protesters are not represented by such senitments.

Oh Winstonfield... liberals called him a nazi... you so CRAZY...

But to your second point, that the bulk of protesters aren't represented by this... I'm willing to give you that, but to use conservative arguements against muslims, how many of the protesters are going to stand up and say that was unacceptable? How many protesters will turn this guy in to the police if they figure out who did it? How many of them really believe the man is a facist?

Would you say.. more than 0? More than 10? Would the majority of them stand up against anonymous threats and nazi symbolism?

I'm guessing not.

Simple questions. Do you know who painted the sign? No. Do I know who painted the sign? No. Therefore any assumptions we make about the supposed, alleged motivation of the person who painted the symbol are absolute speculation. For you guys to be casting aspersions on the protesters as if they were responsible for it is pure bunk. For all we know some kid did it, or some random doofus who is just wanting to be part of the 'story' by being provocative. Are the majority of protesters going around spraying swatstikas on crap and carrying hitler signs? Nope. Then why assume this was the act of someone that is politically different than you? And as a matter of fact, most of the conservatives I know are very opposed to using such slanderous and inflammatory symbols. 9 times out of 10 when the discussion gets "Godwined", it's a neolib slandering a conservative. Case in point - Pelosi was the one that made up the garbage about ficticious swatstikas being carried by the protesters. It was McKaskell that ever-so-gently suggested he hadn't seen protests like this since people were protesting his voting for the civil right's act (basically implying the protesters were like the KKK).

Perhaps you are right.. perhaps this is either a random defacing, or part of a conspiracy to turn public opinion against the protesters. And I agree WP, that most of the conservatives *I* know (and coming from western kentucky, that's a lot) are also opposed to such displays.. any moderately human person is against them.

So, if it turns out that a liberal did do this, we'll all call him or her an idiot and agree it was a terrible thing to do, but if that DOES happen, will you be so quick to run to the defense of liberals as you are to conservatives? Will you be the first to say that those symbols surely can't represent the majority of liberals, and we shouldn't judge all liberals by this one random act?

I don't think it's all that surprising to find skinheads mixed up in these staged anti-health care attacks. Black president, Jewish doctors..... Plenty of fodder for neo-nazi hate.

I'm sure the majority of liberals aren't running around spray-painting crap in an attempt to frame up conservatives. People doing stuff like that are probably rare cases of brain-addled extremists who have been prodded into repugnant action by a constant stream of hate speech. Who knows? All I know is that such people deserve to be spit out the bottom orifice of society.

But something that I consider to be JUST as reprehensible is the blatant, obvious attempt by Democrat party members to paint the protests with the same 'extremist' brush as our hypothetical misguided kooks. The kooks are just frenzied, hyped-up goofballs who need to be pitied and shunned. But the Democrat party members... Nancy Pelosi, Claire McKaskell, Arlen Spectre, Ben Cardin, Brian Baird, Steny Hoyer, and many others - right up to Barak FREAKING Obama himself have blasted the protesters in terms that are insulting, demeaning, and dismissive. These aren't citizen kooks, random bloggers, or talking heads. These are people who hold political power describing thier own consitituents as if they were the enemy.

What kind of example is that? If they want to defuse the anger, shouldn't they be honest, open, and forthcoming and willing to engage the people?

When these bozos start getting all defensive, snippy, angry, and insulting to the people who are challenging them, it doesn't make me think that these are poor, innocent Democrats that are the victims of mean old mobs of extremists...

...It makes me think that the citizens are hitting these Democrats RIGHT between the eyes with truths that the Democrats want to hide so they can pass this bill before anyone can stop it. And it also makes me think that the Democrats are a bunch of slimeball hypocrites - because they sure didn't have ANY problems with 'community activism' during the Bush administration, or during Obama's campaign. But now the they are on the other end they want to act like citizen participation is a nasty, ugly thing that needs to be suppressed. Shame on them, and shame on anyone defending them.

Dammit. Sucked in again. When will I learn to just stop reading the comments on these videos?

WP, I know I haven't said anything lately, but I do have two questions to your last post.

1. If it takes "a constant stream of hate speech" to rile up liberals, what exactly is riling up these protesters? Something other than a constant stream of hate speech? Because I think you hit the nail right on the head there... conservative talking heads are GREATLY responsible for the unreasoning and immature YELLING done at these meetings... why can't these people simply vote like the rest of us? We had to deal with Bush and his ilk for 8 years because conservatives voted for him... why can't you guys just vote in people who agree with you? Because the yelling and screaming is NOT done on behalf of the majority. That's why.

2. Which parts of the healthcare plan (found here: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/AAHCA-BillText-071409_2.pdf) do you find so repulsive? Is it the ability to continue using private insurance as much as you like? Is it the part where everyone who cannot afford insurance is given a public insurance plan? Is it the part where HMOs get to make your life and death decisions if you decide to stay with private insurance?

Please please please give me something that I can take seriously so we can have a reasoned debate.

So far, you are the most reasonable conservative I've met who still claims the title of conservative. And I need to understand what the hell is happening to my country.

*Dead

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