Oh gods... that is JUST what we need to add to the mix in Iraq right now... fucking hell... Would someone please find a way to get these people to realize that missionary activities in Iraq are just about a helpful to the international peace and well being of the world as sending more Jews to the settle in the West Bank in some ridiculous bid to bring about the second coming?

I never cease to be amazed that supposedly 'peaceful' and 'life-loving' Christians have no qualms with stirring up religious violence and getting a whole lot of people killed in the process. Sickens me to the core.

So the general in charge of finding bin Laden believes he is hiding in the Spiritual Realm? I guess that explains why we haven't caught him yet.

Atheist Alliance assemble!

Tell Me This Is a Joke Christian BullS***t Get The FCUK Out Of Iraq

why do these fundamentalist christians always look like dull, bland people with a glossed-over, distant, lost look in their eyes (when they're not occupied with displaying hatred).

Am I the only one noticing that the translation seems a bit off? You can hear in english, "[we Christians] always are in a spiritual war." Translator: "we, Christians, are always in war." Small difference of that word spiritual but it changes the message. I wonder how the rest of it actually compares.

apples and oranges Aemaeth ??? There are many levels of quote/unquote success with missionaries, Christian or otherwise, after all, they bring other things when they bring that word.....stuff from Walmart in shipping containers...some even teach tribes to read and write by translating the Bible into their language....I've met a few Missionary families, all were flakes to some degree.

If the Christian god is bigger than the Muslim god, than he is greater than himself. That doesn't make sense.

Fuckin' Fundamentalists. When will they learn?

Just to clarify, now that my comment is getting so many votes... I'm not an atheist, but I am very against evangelical proselytizing and most 'missionary' activities (because historically its gone hand in hand with imperialism and the ultimate plunder and destruction of countless indigenous cultures, and in the modern era it just does not jive with my own views on personal determinism)...

But all that aside, I am above all else a very practical person when it comes to viewing world conflicts, and ventures such as this just blow my mind in their overall disregard for the actual outcome and affects that they cause on a region. I only wish that Christian missionary organizations would move away from the rationale that their supposed 'saving of souls' somehow makes up for the earthly strife and destruction they cause in the process.

Well, Raven, your comment is what brought me to this video. Based on the title I was expecting something completely different. Im not sure where to start.
Radical Christian Missionaries - well, i thought Westboro baptist church was branching out. Seems to me they are just doing what Christians have been doing for thousands of year. When the video started, it appeared to be a newsroom, and the anchor was talking like Christians and the military were working hand in hand. And when it does state that they went with the military support, they offer no backup to their claims. Looks like some one is pissed at America and American Christians, ad this is the result.

As far as the General in church - That kinda pissed me off. We have very strict policy about using your position to further your personal beliefs, so to walk into a congregation as large as that one wearing your stars? Uncalled for.

But you are right about one thing Raven, these ministries aren't going to help the overall situation at all. This should be especially known to Christians. Right in our bible it tells us that the entire region is damned, so as far as them trying to make it better? Not so sure thats what they are trying to do. But like we have in all kinds of countries all over the world, they are setting up minisitries.

Raven, you said it never surprises you to see 'peaceful' and 'fun-loving' Christians stirring up religious violence. I don't see how trying to spread the beliefs of of their church (of Christianity) with care packages and colorful bibles is stirring up trouble. Now, as was pointed out in the video, a Muslim may find themselves into some trouble for converting, i.e. getting killed, so whose radical? seems to me like there a problem there. (I am NOT saying all Muslims are the same, hence the term radical) Well if these Muslims converting know its a possible retribution, thats on them. I don't see how the missionaries are causing the trouble.

anyone else got chills from the Bush footage?

arsenault185 wtf!
"I don't see how trying to spread the beliefs of of their church (of Christianity) with care packages and colorful bibles is stirring up trouble."

^going for the "most naive comment of 2008" already?

Maybe I am. I wouldn't mind s Siftie All I was saying is that there have been ministries for hundreds of years. Just because one gets a little more publicity than another doesn't mean anything.

Christians have killed infinitely more people than Muslims. The difference is that Christians use the military to do their killing, whereas Muslims are forced to do it themselves.

In general, it seems to be much more culturally acceptable to have other people kill for you than to do it yourself. So much for rugged individualism.

Why do we need to hear this from a German source? Aren't there any American investigative journalists covering this? Figures...

@arsenault... I said 'life-loving'... or so they always seem to say that they are.

And if they were sending happy, colorful 'Jesus Loves Me' stickers and bibles to a country that wasn't currently being torn apart by a religious based Civil War and thereby helping to add to the chaos and misery of the situation, then I probably would not have said anything, because yeah, like it or not, they have been doing this for centuries (although really, that, I think is no cogent argument for the justification of modern missionary activities- after all there are lots of things humanity has done for centuries, like, oh, prevented women from owning property or having any sort of a say whatsoever, or, oh I don't know, slavery.... both of which could also potentially be justified by the "we've been doing this for thousands of years" argument, but aren't, because people by and large have realized that we need to progress and move forward as a species. So, applying that same reasoning to justify the continuation of missionary work, just isn't gonna fly).

But, anyway, they are purposefully going into an area that is already torn apart by religious and sectarian violence... if they were so dead set on saving Muslim souls, then why not go somewhere else? Iraq is not going anywhere, someday, eventually after a lot of bloodshed it will settle down. The fact they have chosen to go into Iraq NOW strikes me as purposefully divisive and meant to stir up trouble, like they are looking to make some modern-day martyrs or something... so in this case, in light of the civil war and the inherent violence of the region at the moment, it strikes me that they should GTFO for now and stop making things worse... there is a time and a place, and their being there NOW is not helping, and any way they rationalize it is, at this point in time, ridiculous.

I'm going somewhat against the tide here as well. The presentation was very prejudiced. To suggest Iraq is a Christian war is ridiculous. In the past, Christianity has been the justification for horrible things. However, the great majority of these atrocities were political or fascist in nature, not intrinsic to the religion. The corrupt hid behind the Cross, just as criminals hide behind Allah. There are many good Christians and many good Muslims in the world. There are also bad apples in both camps. (In my community lives one of the great, so called "Christian," fruitcakes of all time, so I should know.)
However, the US is not a theocracy. Our foreign and domestic policy is not controlled by the church, and let's all PRAY, (to whomever you choose), it never becomes so. Theocracies are dangerous and represent the greatest threat to personal freedom imaginable.
Is it a good idea to be trying to convert Muslims in combat zones? No, it isn't. But, even as looney as some evangelical Christians can be, they generally profess, (and believe), they want to "save" people, not kill them. As the man, formerly known as Cat Stevens, said about the fatwa on Salman Rushdie, paraphrased, "it's easy to see how this could happen, because the Koran is quite clear on this matter....he who defames the prophet must die." Radical Muslims are much more dangerous than radical Christians because of this distinction between us and the "infidels." During the Barbary Coast piracy crisis, George Washington wanted to know why Muslim pirates thought they could seize sovereign ships;
In 1786 Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). They asked him by what right he extorted money and took slaves. Jefferson reported to Secretary of State John Jay, and to the Congress:

The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet (Mohammed), that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman (or Muslim) who should be slain in battle was sure to go to heaven. [2]

This battle between free-peoples and theocracy has been going on for a long time. Unfortunately, it probably has a long way to go.

on a lighter note, you've got to love the guy speaking in English who's being translated to Dutch, and then translated back to English in subtitles that don't match the original message.

@snoozedoctor & arsenault (if you really care to learn why sending missionaries to Iraq stirs up so much trouble)

While I think you have made a somewhat valid point... I ask you not to forget that our great and wonderful nation of 'free-peoples' was only gained via the slaughter and removal of an indigenous population. The rationale for this removal often was that it was completely legit due to the fact that Native Americans were 'heathens' and 'pagans' and therefore not children of God blessed with all the divine rights that the good people of America were inherently imbued with... and don't forget our 'Manifest Destiny, which was essentially God's will that America stretch from coast to coast and become the leading power in this hemisphere. Historically, American armies may not have been have entered battle under the banner of a crucifix, but the justifications for their deployment have often been laced with the rhetoric of spreading 'Christian values' and thereby civilizing the heathen peoples of the world... so, even though this country is not technically a 'theocracy', which is a nation governed by a religious body who forcibly imposes one faith upon all of its citizens (which the Ottoman empire was NOT, by the way- political and ruling powers lay in the hands of the Sultan and his heirs, the Caliphate only established to give their dynasty legitimacy, and by and large the Empire was comprised of peoples of MANY faiths- it was no more a theocracy than was the Holy Roman Empire, or any of the Medieval European States, in fact, in a lot of ways, it was probably much less of one. That corsairs or an envoy operating under its aegis chose to justify their actions by using the Koran is no different than the thousands of other actions carried out by European kings, and conquistadors who chose the Bible as their umbrella), the justifications for the actions of the American military have in the past often been aligned with 'Christian' motivations or agendas (once again, see the conquest and 'taming' of North America)... and given the discourse in American politics today, I think it is hard to deny that there is a great portion of this population that would very much like to see it formally defined as a 'Christian Nation', with Bibles in the classroom and Commandments at the Court House, so the perception abroad that Iraq is a 'Christian War' is not unsurprising, its like to spring up anytime a predominantly Christian country sets foot in the Middle East.

But back to history and the motivations of international shenanigans of the more recent past.... Its not only America that is guilty of working in tandem with the motivations of religious institutions and their rhetoric... throughout the Golden Age of Imperialism foreign missionaries more often than not preceded the armies of Western nations throughout Africa, Asia and the Pacific, establishing churches and converting portions of the population. Attacks on these outposts of Western thought and culture would often then be used as an excuse for a Western nation to move in and establish a military presence before moving on to full blown colonization (see the French takeover of Indochina/Vietnam if you don't believe me).

In regards to this situation then that pattern is important to keep in mind, because I think it helps explain some of the anger that is being raised by missionary activities in the region. Given the prevailing attitude against Western influence in Iraq and other Middle Eastern countries (due mostly to the experience of having been subjugated by Western Imperialist powers in the past), it should not be so surprising that these FOREIGN AMERICAN missionaries would be viewed by Iraqis as a threat to the sovereign identity they are trying to create for themselves. It is not that the Iraqis who might strike out at these people are doing so entirely because they are averse to Christianity, after all, there has been a long standing population of Chaldean Christians within Iraq that has gotten by just fine for centuries- it maybe hasn't been on top and they were pretty fairly discriminated against under Saddam but they certainly have never been outrightly persecuted for not being Muslim. Even today, despite all the turmoil in the country, those who have remained are pretty much just hanging in there and riding things out while the various Muslim factions around them blow one another up.

So, a large component of the problem is that many Iraqis ultimately feel that they are being 'invaded' by Imperialist Western influence, on many fronts, militarily, politically, and via these missionaries, religiously. So, therefore, this conflict of interest goes beyond simply just religion and it is important, I think, that Christians (missionaries and otherwise) realize this, the situation is not just Christian vs. Muslim- Iraqi Muslims are not just angry or striking out because the people of Jesus have dared tread on their sand to convert their neighbors. There are many many other factors involved in this that explain why they would not want missionaries from America to be active within their country... especially at a sensitive moment in history such as this.

Good points, and largely in agreement.
Whereas individuals have restraint by rule of law (where it applies), sovereign states have none. The United Nations is not going to pull you over, put you in handcuffs and take you to jail if you are a misbehaving country.
Whether it's the Tasmanians, Australian Aborigines, Incas, Aztecs, or Native American Indians, it's the same story. Imperialist expansion doomed them all. Was it inevitable? History would seem to suggest that when competing civilizations collide, the weaker gets assimilated or consumed. Still it's a stain on humanity that these "indigenous" peoples were almost uniformly demoted to "sub-human" status so that displacement or extermination could be rationalized or justified.

I wish I could say it was different today. The recent genocides (although not in the eyes of the UN) in Rwanda and the Sudan suggest otherwise. Rwanda interests me in particular. It's one of the poorest nations on earth. Christian influence there is helping to heal the scars of that tragedy. I'm no saint, I'm just fortunate enough to have the opportunity, but I have provided medical equipment and supplies to the remote villages of Rwanda. My wife has worked in jungle clinics there, seeing children suffering from malaria, typhoid, and parasitic infections. It's frustrating not to be able to do more, but you do what you can do.

I got off the subject here, but my point is this....There is a huge amount of international charity work being done world-wide by Christian organizations. Let's not drag them thru the mud because some nuts are trying to convert people in a war zone.

The conflict in the Middle East in not about religion, you are absolutely right about that. It's about globalization. It's about the resultant loss of cultural identity and respect. From the US standpoint, it's also about oil, that should be evident to everyone.

Globalization is not going to stop because some want it to. We have to be realists about that. This is what makes the modern day situation so different from the past. Citing precedent, (in prior international conflicts) loses much in translation to the modern day situation. Communication, transportation, and world trade are making the earth smaller by the day. Intolerant and inflexible societies are at risk in this new paradigm, not so much from the outside but from the inside, as the new generation adopts the global (western if you want to call it that), ways. People say we should appeal to the "moderates" in these countries. The problem is, many of the moderates, with the means to do so, have left and are now living in the US or Europe. That's the "brain-drain" we've heard so much about. Most of the moderates were professionals, university professors, etc. So, the remaining are the most hard-line and fundamentalist. That makes it tough.

Tragically, the weakest societies are at risk of just getting run over completely. As you pointed out, it happened in our own backyard with the American Indian.

I really lament the homogenization of the US I've seen in my lifetime. Standing on any corner, of any street, in any town you see the same McDonalds, Pizza Huts, Walmarts, etc. Is that the fate of the world? God, let's hope not.

Quite an interesting discussion going on here. I will say that the statement that "Christians have killed infinitely more people than Muslims" is only true due to not enough time on the playing field. I'm not villain zing one more than the other but read about the horrible things and wars done to surrounding nations by Islam in order to convert, India especially. Any religion when misused and in the wrong hands can be equally as devastating

One thing is for sure though - The military has weapons a little more effective of killing than bible thumpers.

Kill 'em all, and rid the world of the memetic plague that will haunt us into the future!

I kid, I kid.. or do I?

it doesn't matter which religion killed more, they're all fucking evil if they think killing is the annswer.

a fundamentalist is a fundamentalist, regardless of geography. Very quickly fundamentalists find something to disagree with strongly, because they are fundamentalists.

The answer is "tolerance" i think you'll find. Jesus said that 2000 years ago and still nobody listens. He must be rolling over in his grave at what he started. I don't think it was his intention. He was probably buddhist anyway.

Mink,
Nice synopsis. Ain't it the truth. The message Jesus preached was tolerance, forgiveness and redemption. How can people get that so twisted around? But, keep an eye over your shoulder. The fundamentalists may be stalking you over that "rolling over in his grave," phrase.